As a male, when are we allowed to tell a woman shes being inappropriate?

[Richard2014]

In the two years I have lived in Australia I have had a few instances of inappropriate gestures from women and because I am not accustomed to telling a woman off it has gotten me into trouble, its not something that men do especially in Australia, it seems that the moment you express your feelings your either regarded as a homosexual or a pansy.

I had only just arrived in Australia when I was introduced to a girl whom I found it easy talking to as we shared many of the same interests, scifi, gaming, I happened to be sitting at a table with my guy friends when she abruptly sat down and pulled me out of the conversation asking "Hows it going?" suddenly her leg began to rub against mine and I jumped out of my seat as I am not accustomed to female physical contact even in dating. Later on she added me to Facebook and began teasing me which I assumed was due to my abrupt exit before, I thought to myself alright fare game, and poked fun at her character until she exclaimed "your not being nice" I said of course I'm just giving you a hard time since your were teasing me, only joking because I happen to know that you are very nice person in fact when I met you you had just finished helping your little brother move into the dorms, not many sister's would go out of their way for that. Well it didn't end well and when people began asking me questions I defended myself by exclaiming that I was made very uncomfortable when she suddenly began rubbing her leg against mine only about a week after meeting me, and I didn't think it was weird to assume that she was a very nice person after seeing her help her brother move into his room and unpack. Needless to say the immediate response was having over half my Australian facebook friends block me.

In my second year the incident with the same girl had been blown out of proportions so I changed my major to get away and have a break, unfortunately it happened again. One of the girls in class had been impressed with my bravery in class and more than once told me that it inspired her, on one occasion she came within two inches of my face to stare at my eyes and told me that they were beautiful, she was part of a group that liked to go adventuring after class and on some weekends so I asked for her number hoping to become a part of that group she gave me her number and when I called her phone so she could save my number she exclaimed "some weirdo is calling me!" upon trying to correct her she laughed and told me that she knew it was my number, after a long day of class she texted me informing me that my bravery volunteering to go first was an inspiration to her, and I texted back that I thought the way she navigated her way up the climbing wall was impressive and inspiring and that I had wished that I could learn her techniques, then the falter was texting "I saw you walking up towards the shopping district, at the end of class you mentioned that you were very hungry but looking for something healthier to eat, may I recommend the pizza's at the corner cafe". It was enough to spook her, and get me into trouble, at the end of the year she tried very hard to again form a friendship however after being burned I kept my distance.

Finally I had a girl at my gym act rather friendly, she would always come over to talk to me as I would eat lunch or while I got ready to work out I saw a friendship in it and enjoyed her company, I happened to be eating some vegan dessert and she asked me what it was and I offered her the second slice she exclaimed it might ruin her diet but after I told her it contained no sugar she decided to take it home, I mentioned to her that it was apparently a holiday as I had been informed and if you give gifts to others you will be blessed with luck, she replied "Then I think you will be very lucky indeed today" in such a way that embarrassed me, I was unable to think of anything to say so I vacated to the bathroom quickly. Later on a friend of mine encouraged me to invite her to our bible study group eventually I gave in in worked up the courage and gave her our devotional booklet we were working through and between slurs and uncomfortable pauses I asked if she wouldn't mind reading it and considering joining our group mentioning that it was vegan. She said she would, seemed delighted and said "Thank you very much". Upon the next day I was informed by the manager of the gym that they enjoyed having me at the gym however giving out gifts was inappropriate especially since this girl had a boyfriend.


In each of these situations I feel that I could have easily avoided discomfort had I been brave enough to inform someone or them that I was made uncomfortable by these women, however I realize that this isn't something that men are accustomed to doing, and it does feel a little emasculating when thinking about complaining in these situations however I felt very discomforted in each situation having someone suddenly rubbing my leg or standing close enough to kiss to look into my eyes and tell me their beautiful or the statement "very lucky indeed" causing my stomach jump into my throat, I thought in the final situation that my friend was right, why not invite her to bible studies since she seemed very open listening to me talk about my bible working, door knocking, giving bible studies.

My question is how can you properly inform a woman of this, without humiliating her or yourself, and how can you do so in a manly way without feeling that your cutting off a part of your manhood every time you complain or state your concerns because it seems that the world has turned it into a statement of homosexuality if you begin talking to women like "I feel that, you made me uncomfortable when".

It seems like its a trait that is commonplace for women to say "Woah buddy" or "back up 5 meters and then talk to me", or "I'm not comfortable with that"

I see it happening to my friend all the time with one woman its obvious that she likes him a little too much and he just tries to ignore it or vacates to the other side of the room... where she usually follows for him It may never become a problem, however in my case I am rather overweight and average which seems to cause a floundering of feelings in a woman when she feels that she is attracted ending in a backlash when I am not accustomed to asking her to slow down, or finding a way to tell her that I'm not comfortable with that level of contact.

 

[Armoured]

As a male, when are we allowed to tell a woman shes being inappropriate?

...when she is being inappropriate.

 

[Richard2014]

...when she is being inappropriate.

but it still isn't very common place, it seems to happen very rarely, whats the best way to say it? I don't think that in my first situation had I jumped up and exclaimed something that "your touching my leg that's inappropriate" it wouldn't be received very well, do I laugh and say "yep that's my leg"

when that girl was too close to my face should I have said "I can see a mole on your skin"?

whats the best way to calmly back out of those situations without damaging someones feelings when they are seriously questioning weather or not they are interested in an average guy.

If your more like my friends when a woman gets overly touchy feely with you, hugging tickling they seem to take it in stride realizing that the feelings are probably going to pass eventually and there is no need to make a scene, however for myself and other overweight friends we find ourselves struggling to know how to react in theses situations as in most cases when the feelings go away they can overreact because you didnt refuse their advances, or the ever popular meeting of women which in most cases ends up as "what the hell are you doing girl, you were all over him, did you see how fat he was" ending up with her friends telling you "stay the hell away from my friend"

 

[Armoured]

Don't overthink it. Just say "I'm not comfortable with you doing that".

 

[BL2KTN]

If a girl rubs her leg against yours, the typical response is to smile. Do you struggle with other social situations?

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Don't overthink it. Just say "I'm not comfortable with you doing that".

This. Exactly this.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Don't overthink it. Just say "I'm not comfortable with you doing that".

Yup, this is it exactly.

You have to state your boundaries so people realize that they're overstepping them. This may be purely by accident on their part, and they need to realize what they're doing isn't sitting well with you.

 

[MehGuy]

Report her to the police then cry on tumblr about it.

 

[Architeuthus]

In the two years I have lived in Australia I have had a few instances of inappropriate gestures from women

Reading the story, it seems more like you're misreading signals because the culture is unfamiliar.

I defended myself by exclaiming that I was made very uncomfortable when she suddenly began rubbing her leg against mine ... the immediate response was having over half my Australian facebook friends block me

That sounds like a big vote against the fact that you went public about an incident that was either accidental or a mild flirtation.

In each of these situations I feel that I could have easily avoided discomfort had I been brave enough to inform someone or them that I was made uncomfortable by these women

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have helped the situation. If women are making you uncomfortable, the best reaction is to gently back away, not make a big thing of it.

My question is how can you properly inform a woman of this

In those cases where you must, a good form of words might be "when you do... it makes me feel uncomfortable; please don't do that any more." However, appropriate use of gentle humour would be more in keeping with Australian culture, I think.

In my second year the incident with the same girl had been blown out of proportions so I changed my major to get away and have a break

This was the part that particularly worried me... it seems that your mismanaging of social situations may be harmful to your studies.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but have you ever watched any Australian "soap opera" on TV? Most shows of that type are fundamentally about how to deal with social situations in a culturally appropriate way.

 

[Cearbhall]

...when she is being inappropriate.

It's a shame that many cultures question the masculinity of men who dare to say "No" to a woman.

 

[Messy]

I used to think only girls had this problem. I saw two girls trying to get some Dutch guys with them 20 years ago in Spain. Insane. The guys were like: No we don't want to, get away. They were really having a hard time.
When a guy rubbed his leg to mine in a bus he could get a filthy look and I walked away immediately. If women behave like filthy old men then treat them as such and tell them to back off.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

Richard,

You just have to know that you're not like them, tell them what you think and stop worrying about what they will say about you. A woman who reacts that way and attempts to shame you in punishment was never you friend to begin with.

If you tell someone how you feel and they make fun of you for it or punish you for it you should tell them to go do something bad to their self. Take a hike, jump off a cliff... who cares what she thinks?

Sometimes you gotta dig deep, stand by your beliefs and give everyone the bird and say the best words ever, the start and F and a Y. Don't let people treat you that way.

You gotta stick up for yourself, you don't have to shame them back if you don't want to but you can simply know their opinion shouldn't matter and move on.

It is never wrong to tell someone how you feel and if it is impossible to do so without them berating or shaming you then those people don't need to be close to you. Stop associating with them because they do not care about you, they want to use you and you should find people who really care about you, not try to keep good relations with the wolves next door.

 

[Kiritsugu Emiyah]

Richard,

A good thing to take away from this is that you begin to see what it means to be to be treated like an object and sexualised and considered the sum of the sexual opportunity you provide to others.

That's how a very large number of women are treated every single day of their lives. I didn't realize this until I started to talk to gay men and pursuing relationships with men. A lot of them did not care about how I felt, they just wanted to use me... and now I make sure I don't treat anyone that way because it feels really horrible.

Welcome to the world of women, that's how women are used to be treated.

 

[Cearbhall]

Reading the story, it seems more like you're misreading signals because the culture is unfamiliar.

I agree, but I still think it's perfectly fine for him to set his own boundaries, even if they don't match up with those of people around him. I have a female Muslim friend who isn't supposed to have any direct contact with males whatsoever (outside of her family), so she just lets them know.

 

[OGM]

I travel to Australia several times a year for business. My favorite word in the English language is "NO"...

 

[SuperCloud]

I've never been to Aussie land. Aren't the Aussies supposed to be a rather wild and macho bunch? The men I mean.

Anyways... what someone else pointed out about the possible cultural difference sounded very plausible and a good point. I don't know if that was or is the case, I'm just saying it sounded like a reasonable point of a possibility.

You know... I've heard American expats online say they've had to tell visiting Americans in Brazil that some hot looking Brazilian woman all up on them being nice, is not necessarily "attracted to them," but rather it's a cultural norm there in social interactions. Falling under what Brazilian women pride themselves on: "simpatico": or in English translation it roughly means "to be nice."

That may not be the case here. It's possible Aussie women are more culturally the same--or even identical--to American women. If that is the case then your simply dealing with a double standard. I had a woman in community college that used to be grabbing on my arm outside the classroom before class. She was probably a bit younger than me and she would be on a number of occasions grabbing on my arm and yanking on it to get more of my attention--in her frustration. I was not responding to her flirtation and interest in the way she wanted, so, that is why she was getting frustrated. Truth be told, had I been younger, and prior to substance addiction, I would have tagged that ____. LOL.

But... I was battling my own problems. And I kept them closeted like a gay man keeps his homosexuality closeted. And I wasn't trying to "get to know" people. Other than being sociable in the sense one does in passing or what you think of as "professionally." Although, it used to really irk me with her touching me let alone grabbing and yanking. Had I done that to her it would have been viewed as "sexual harassment."

In your case you sound socially awkward, and as if you were reared in a Puritanical Evangelical environment. Outside of that... your characteristics (as you attempt to describe them in typed prose at least) from my experiences resemble that of men that have been sexually abused. Usually by other men. As children or teens and sometimes even as adults. I'm not saying that is the case with you. I'm saying the characteristics you describe from my experiences in life generally come from men either reared in Puritanical Evangelical homes or men that have been sexually molested.

Either way you won't find any women to understand you. Or if you do only a very few. Men won't "get you either." As it is the cultural norm across most if not all the earth... that women are privileged to say "no" and men are supposed to always be sexually available to women.

I think it might be worthwhile investigating what's the typical cultural traits and norms of Aussie men and women. And once you know those figure out a way to slip and weave around those things when you're in a social setting, like a Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring. Be elusive. I've used this in the past quite well with women. And the alpha men expecting you to be sexually available to the women are unsure why you're not, if they can even catch on to your slips and weaves.

 

[Richard2014]

Very strict religious upbringing

In the 80s we were taught that sex was only for procreation and the male genital was filthy and dirty

In the 90s because of y2k fast approaching we were taught that dating was wrong because the apocalypse was coming soon it was a sin to think about a partner we needed to focus on spreading the message of God and marriage and a family would only distract us from that thus it was a sin women were encouraged to remain pure and men to respect that if you needed to marry you were to maintain a strict no sex rule and kissing touching would only bring you closer to sin

In high school we were forced to hold hands in a very large circle as only men because we had been embarrassing the higher ups by dating and PDA and would continue to do so for an hour each day while they lectured us

In response to another reply, I don't believe a 17 year old girl has any business rubbing her leg that closely to my genatilia, and I was being honest when others asked why i jumped out of my seat and left her I wasn't being rude to her I just wasn't comfortable with that sort of affection especially considering the trouble I could get into if anyone complained that I was allowing or enjoying that kind of behavior

Thankyou all so much for your responses as I try to discover a world outside of what my church back home still teaches to young people today in much smaller numbers, its dying out but the scars remain forever as many young people resorted to sex and drugs or same sex relationships

your advice has been very comforting and informative and I will greatly learn from it and use it in the future

God Bless

 

[PsychoSarah]

Very strict religious upbringing

In the 80s we were taught that sex was only for procreation and the male genital was filthy and dirty

In the 90s because of y2k fast approaching we were taught that dating was wrong because the apocalypse was coming soon it was a sin to think about a partner we needed to focus on spreading the message of God and marriage and a family would only distract us from that thus it was a sin women were encouraged to remain pure and men to respect that if you needed to marry you were to maintain a strict no sex rule and kissing touching would only bring you closer to sin

In high school we were forced to hold hands in a very large circle as only men because we had been embarrassing the higher ups by dating and PDA and would continue to do so for an hour each day while they lectured us

In response to another reply, I don't believe a 17 year old girl has any business rubbing her leg that closely to my genatilia, and I was being honest when others asked why i jumped out of my seat and left her I wasn't being rude to her I just wasn't comfortable with that sort of affection especially considering the trouble I could get into if anyone complained that I was allowing or enjoying that kind of behavior

Thankyou all so much for your responses as I try to discover a world outside of what my church back home still teaches to young people today in much smaller numbers, its dying out but the scars remain forever as many young people resorted to sex and drugs or same sex relationships

your advice has been very comforting and informative and I will greatly learn from it and use it in the future

God Bless

I have touch phobia. All physical contact makes me uncomfortable, and it gets worse the more it goes on.

Jumping might have not been the best knee-jerk response though, so in the future, just kinda quietly scoot away or move when the opportunity arrives to do so.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

As a male, when are we allowed to tell a woman shes being inappropriate?...

That depends on your needs and goals.

Choose your battles wisely.

 

[Cearbhall]

In response to another reply, I don't believe a 17 year old girl has any business rubbing her leg that closely to my genatilia, and I was being honest when others asked why i jumped out of my seat and left her I wasn't being rude to her I just wasn't comfortable with that sort of affection especially considering the trouble I could get into if anyone complained that I was allowing or enjoying that kind of behavior

I believe the age of consent is 16 in Australia, so no worries there. Not that I'm encouraging a relationship between a 31-year-old and a 17-year-old.