As a Christian I do not follow the entire Bible. Only Jesus.

[IamRedeemed]

To be precise, that verse refers to the words of Solomon, not the word of God or the bible.

All of the Bible is divinely inspired. Solomon's wisdom came directly from God. Man's personal words (Solomon's or otherwise) have no power to give life or health.

The entire book of Proverbs is wisdom unto man from God, through Solomon.

Take a look at these verses from Psalms 119:2-17, 92-93 and see those words confirmed throughout, and there is no doubt that the Psalms are declaring these things regarding God's Word and His precepts and their benefits to us when we incline our ears and hear and hide them in our hearts, that we will obey, the Words that lead unto Life.



Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!


Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments. I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments. I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments. Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.
I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.


I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word.

Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction. I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Check out whole chapter of 119 from verse 1-176.

 

[IamRedeemed]

We are just no longer subject to ceremonial cleansing, and purification rituals, blood offerings, burnt offerings etc.
But God's moral expectations have never changed.

Really? I thought Jesus came to fullfill the law, not just do away with it.

 

[IamRedeemed]

That "thing in the middle east" IS the Israel God is talking about. He has not forsaken Israel. We are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. God loves His people and He will watch over His Word to perform it and a remnant of Israel will indeed be saved. We are not to boast, those of us who have been grafted in, the Word says, because just as He cut off some of the natural branches, we can easily also be cut off.

Romans 11:17-21

Remember that if you decide again to refer to Israel as "that thing in the middle east."

If you believe in Jesus you are now part of Israel.

So it applies to you if you are a follower of Jesus Christ.

When I refer to Israel I am not talking about that thing in the middle east.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

If you believe in Jesus you are now part of Israel.

Explain?

 

[holo]

The word of God is what God says. When God speaks, something always happens.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

The bible doesn't have this effect. You can read the bible back and forth for your entire life, but unless God decides to speak to you, it will have no effect whatsoever.

Isa 55:10-11
As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,

so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

The word of God does not return empty. But bible verses often do. We see that a whole lot here on CF. People will quoted bible verses east and west, and it doesn't really make much of a difference. The word of God is not the bible, it has never been the bible. God's word is what God says. When God says something to you, that's God's word to you. He may speak to you in any number of ways. The bible testifies of some of the ways: dreams, thoughts, angels, visions, burning bushes, speaking animals, prophets, apostles, etc etc.

Labeling the bible "God's word" is seriously wrong. It limits your communication with the Lord immensely, because instead of listening for him, you seek to find "his word" by interpreting scripture.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

The Bible is God's word. Ever heard the parable of the sower? Just because a person doesn't grow out of the word of God, doesn't mean the seed wasn't sown. Whether or not you respond to the word of God, it will have an effect. It will either bless or curse you with it's knowledge.

 

[holo]

The Bible is God's word. Ever heard the parable of the sower? Just because a person doesn't grow out of the word of God, doesn't mean the seed wasn't sown. Whether or not you respond to the word of God, it will have an effect. It will either bless or curse you with it's knowledge.

I went to seminary for two years. I've never read the bible as much as I did then. Still, I spiralled down into depression and drug addiction and I believed I was eternally lost. Then, at the end of the year, one teacher told me simply "hey God LOVES you" - and there and then I was transformed.

THAT was God's word to me. All the bible reading did ZERO.

God CAN speak to you through the bible, just as he can speak to you through a sermon or a book or whatever.

The bible is full of quotes like "the word of God came to Nathan" - that doesn't mean the bible came to Nathan. The bible had nothing to do with it. Just see how insane it gets if the bible and God's word are the same: "in the beginning was the bible, and the bible was with God, and the bible was God."

BTW, what made you think the bible is "God's word" to begin with?

 

[New_Wineskin]

I went to seminary for two years. I've never read the bible as much as I did then. Still, I spiralled down into depression and drug addiction and I believed I was eternally lost. Then, at the end of the year, one teacher told me simply "hey God LOVES you" - and there and then I was transformed.

THAT was God's word to me. All the bible reading did ZERO.

God CAN speak to you through the bible, just as he can speak to you through a sermon or a book or whatever.

The bible is full of quotes like "the word of God came to Nathan" - that doesn't mean the bible came to Nathan. The bible had nothing to do with it. Just see how insane it gets if the bible and God's word are the same: "in the beginning was the bible, and the bible was with God, and the bible was God."

BTW, what made you think the bible is "God's word" to begin with?

Excellant post !

 

[Yekcidmij]

Labeling the bible "God's word" is seriously wrong. It limits your communication with the Lord immensely, because instead of listening for him, you seek to find "his word" by interpreting scripture.

What is the Bible then? What is its purpose?

 

[holo]

What is the Bible then? What is its purpose?

Good question. The bible is many things. It's a collection of 66 books, I think, spanning a period of about 3000 years. It consists of history, prophesy, letters, genealogies, poetry, wisdom, revelation, etc etc.

Paul said about the OT that they were useful for "instruction in righteousness" and so forth. Personally I see the bible as sort of a testimony of God's interaction with people. That's what it's mainly about.

 

[Albion]

Good question. The bible is many things. It's a collection of 66 books, I think, spanning a period of about 3000 years. It consists of history, prophesy, letters, genealogies, poetry, wisdom, revelation, etc etc.

Paul said about the OT that they were useful for "instruction in righteousness" and so forth. Personally I see the bible as sort of a testimony of God's interaction with people. That's what it's mainly about.

But this sounds like a distinction without a difference. As I understood your post before this one, you took exceptiotn to the Bible as "God's word." If that is so, I don't get how "testimony of God's interaction with people" is a whole lot different. Is it? Even the Bible doesn't say that God produced the written version we call the Bible by himself, but that he inspired holy men who recorded that inspiration.

 

[holo]

But this sounds like a distinction without a difference. As I understood your post before this one, you took exceptiotn to the Bible as "God's word." If that is so, I don't get how "testimony of God's interaction with people" is a whole lot different. Is it? Even the Bible doesn't say that God produced the written version we call the Bible by himself, but that he inspired holy men who recorded that inspiration.

God still inspires people, and we will talk about "preaching the word of God" when, say, Billy Graham delivers a sermon. But the sermon isn't actually the word of God, it's the word of Graham. Still, God may inspire it and speak to people through it. Nobody would write it down and claim it to be God's word or infallible or any such thing though.

 

[Albion]

God still inspires people, and we will talk about "preaching the word of God" when, say, Billy Graham delivers a sermon. But the sermon isn't actually the word of God, it's the word of Graham. Still, God may inspire it and speak to people through it. Nobody would write it down and claim it to be God's word or infallible or any such thing though.

But the point was not about inspired sermon-givers. It was specifically the BIBLE as "God's Word" that you took exception to. But then you called it, the Bible, an interaction between God and man. You weren't speaking of interaction between God and man per se, but the Bible as being interaction between God and Man.

What's the difference between those two views of the Bible--Bible as God's Word versus the Bible defined as the record of God's interaction with people?

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

I went to seminary for two years. I've never read the bible as much as I did then. Still, I spiralled down into depression and drug addiction and I believed I was eternally lost. Then, at the end of the year, one teacher told me simply "hey God LOVES you" - and there and then I was transformed.

THAT was God's word to me. All the bible reading did ZERO.

Are you joking? The Bible tells us that God loves us.

People are different. Just because you felt convicted at those words, doesn't mean other people aren't convicted by reading the Bible.

The bible is full of quotes like "the word of God came to Nathan" - that doesn't mean the bible came to Nathan. The bible had nothing to do with it.

No, of course not...because the Bible was being written at those times.

BTW, what made you think the bible is "God's word" to begin with?

It was inspired by God?

 

[holo]

But the point was not about inspired sermon-givers. It was specifically the BIBLE as "God's Word" that you took exception to. But then you called it, the Bible, an interaction between God and man. You weren't speaking of interaction between God and man per se, but the Bible as being interaction between God and Man.

What's the difference between those two views of the Bible--Bible as God's Word versus the Bible defined as the record of God's interaction with people?

I didn't say that the bible was an interaction between God and man, but that it testifies of this interactin.

God's word is simply what God says. The bible does record God's words here and there, just like it records the words of satan, of angels, of Moses, of kings and of servants.

The biggest danger in calling the bible the word of God, is the enormous potential for abuse. For example, critisize a leader and people will quote "God's word" and say "do not touch the Lord's anointed!" as if that was actually what God would like to communicate to you.

As a matter of faith, I do believe that God intended for us to have the bible and benefit from it. But we do both the bible and the word of God a great disservice by saying they're one and the same.

 

[Albion]

I didn't say that the bible was an interaction between God and man, but that it testifies of this interactin.

Ah. Meaning, I take it, that your view of the Bible is that it is man's idea of how he and his God interacted. Thanks.

God's word is simply what God says. The bible does record God's words here and there, just like it records the words of satan, of angels, of Moses, of kings and of servants.

Well now, wait a minute. You're again calling it God's own word.

The biggest danger in calling the bible the word of God, is the enormous potential for abuse. For example, critisize a leader and people will quote "God's word" and say "do not touch the Lord's anointed!" as if that was actually what God would like to communicate to you.

So, it's only the terminology that you think ought to be avoided! It IS God's word, all right, but some people use the term in too arrogant and self-righteous way?

As a matter of faith, I do believe that God intended for us to have the bible and benefit from it. But we do both the bible and the word of God a great disservice by saying they're one and the same.

So, does this mean that:

1. 'Word of God' is OK, but 'God's Word' is dangerous and provocative?

2. You believe that the Bible is the Word of God but not the only revelation?

 

[fwiwwl]

[FONT=&quot]This is not a very popular belief but here goes! To start off God our Father does not speak through any book or object! He is a father who loves to talk with His children. Little Johnny, sitting in a corner reading about his father does not show love for his father! Unless his father is dead! Our Father is not dead! Any revelation from God began with Him speaking to our heart. (Don’t pick the “heart” word apart, you know what I mean) So, where is the bible in all this? When God speaks it His Word need a cerebral witness to become a complete revelation. Our noodle needs it! Absolutely, spiritual truths never come by reading about our Father! Word comes From God! Whether from spiritual man who was given Word or direct from the Source! Never from what little Johnny read![/FONT]

 

[Albion]

[FONT=&quot]This is not a very popular belief but here goes! To start off God our Father does not speak through any book or object! He is a father who loves to talk with His children. Little Johnny, sitting in a corner reading about his father does not show love for his father! Unless his father is dead! Our Father is not dead! Any revelation from God began with Him speaking to our heart. (Don’t pick the “heart” word apart, you know what I mean) So, where is the bible in all this? When God speaks it His Word need a cerebral witness to become a complete revelation. Our noodle needs it! Absolutely, spiritual truths never come by reading about our Father! Word comes From God! Whether from spiritual man who was given Word or direct from the Source! Never from what little Johnny read![/FONT]

I'm not sure I can agree with that, but I can appreciate the sentiment. However, and as a Christian, I have to think about it with certain provisos:

First, IF there is revelation that exists in the heart or however else we put it, that CANNOT conflict with the Bible or supercede it, because that would deny the Bible. Would that not be so?

Secondly, how is one, anyone, to know what feelings or notions that you or I or someone else have are truly of God, as opposed to hallucination, misunderstanding, mental abnormality or something like that? There are more than enough people posting on these forums who say the most ridiculous and impossible things...and call themselves prophets. The Bible at least is fixed, so what about the amorphous nature of this other stuff?

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

[FONT=&quot]This is not a very popular belief but here goes! To start off God our Father does not speak through any book or object! He is a father who loves to talk with His children. Little Johnny, sitting in a corner reading about his father does not show love for his father! Unless his father is dead! Our Father is not dead! Any revelation from God began with Him speaking to our heart. (Don’t pick the “heart” word apart, you know what I mean) So, where is the bible in all this? When God speaks it His Word need a cerebral witness to become a complete revelation. Our noodle needs it! Absolutely, spiritual truths never come by reading about our Father! Word comes From God! Whether from spiritual man who was given Word or direct from the Source! Never from what little Johnny read![/FONT]

Poppycock. God speaks through the Bible and in a myriad of other ways.

 

[holo]

Ah. Meaning, I take it, that your view of the Bible is that it is man's idea of how he and his God interacted. Thanks.

Paul, for example, wrote down his own personal experience with God. They put it into words and terms that they knew, and related to it according to what they knew beforehand. For example, Isaiah seemed to see something sort of like a spaceship, but he had to describe it in his own words ("wheels within weels" and so forth). People would talk about the "corners of the earth" because they apparently believed it was flat.

Well now, wait a minute. You're again calling it God's own word.

No, God's word is what God says. But even if we write that down, that doesn't mean it's what God would like to say to you. For example, one of God's words are "go up against the medianites" - but that's not what God is telling YOU, is it?

The bible isn't God's word. In some places, it has written down conversations between God and man, and so forth.

So, it's only the terminology that you think ought to be avoided!

Not the term, but what goes with it. Because the term allows for abuse, just like the term "Vicar of Christ" allows for abuse.

It IS God's word, all right, but some people use the term in too arrogant and self-righteous way?

No, it isn't God's word and therefore it shouldn't be treated as such.

So, does this mean that:

1. 'Word of God' is OK, but 'God's Word' is dangerous and provocative?

?

2. You believe that the Bible is the Word of God but not the only revelation?

The only revelation of God is what he has chosen to reveal to you, be it via the bible or via Larry Norman or whatever. The bible itself isn't a revelation of anything. It's a book. We can't see anything of God unless he reveals it to us.