Article re: Veneration of ancestors

[Suzannah]

I found this intriguing article on a Coptic website. As a person who is very "close" in spirit to my ancestors, including physical connection through the actual ground/soil of my home, I found this article to be very loving and compassionate. I have always found Americans to be "curiously" devoid of interest in ancestors other than discovering their "roots" and whether or not they are "heir" to a "throne". (Not a criticism...this is part of the beauty of America...that all are equal) As for myself, I could not escape my ancestors. It was too much of a part of growing up, knowing the "family" history, and being able to pass a written test on the same. Comments from those outside the USA are particularly welcome here! I would appreciate your thoughts, although I am not interested in any debates about Copts vs. Traditional Orthodoxy. That isn't the point of the article. Glad to share as always! I am attaching pictures of my family home in Ireland just to share with you in a literal way, "where I am coming from.." on this....
Photo 1: The pub in the town where I was born...it is written in the Irish Constitution that the govt shall never impede the public's right to meet and "hash". This pub is McDonough's and is where everyone gets together to gossip and predict the fate of millions....
Photo 2: the small tombyard, or cemetery on the property of my family house. Attached to the chapel
Photo3: the chapel, 8th century, on our family property. Since it is pre-schism, it must be an "Orthodox" chapel inorigin. It acquired a Roman flavor in decor, but underneath the vines, you can see the original carvings of crosses that look very 'coptic'. I had always wondered about them...
Photo4: the "Standing Stones" in our backyard. Ancient ancestor's tomb dates to BC.




The article:
http://www.stmaryofegypt.net/honor.shtml

 

[nicodemus]

I know it is a bit off topic, but I was once talking with my priest about the Russian mission to Alaska and he was talking about the ancestor worship that was prevalent amongst Native Ameicans in the Northwest. He said Orthodoxy was a natural fit for them because we pray for the deceased. He said of course they had to stop worshipping their deceased relatives, but that it was good to pray for them.

 

[Suzannah]

Nicodemus: That's not OT! That was exactly the sort of thing I mean...thanks for sharing that! The same with the Irish....we have a "love your ancestor" gene ....the early Irish pagans found the Saints to be very acceptable to them...they were worshipping ancestors, so Padraig, Columba, Brigid and the rest gave them the Saints and the Apostles...and they embraced Christianity wholeheartedly...
Makes total sense to me!

 

[Reader Nilus]

The Finns as well, in pre Christian Finland there were totems for the ancestors. I was born and raised in the USA, my parents were immigrants from Finland. When I was 18 I got to go to Finland. It was a mystical experience for me, I felt like I belonged there, it was very difficult for me to describe that sense to my parents when I got home. I found your comments right on the mark Suzannah in your OP.
I would add nicodemus that it is also quite alright to ask your ancestors to pray for you as well.
It was I think my third Holy Pascha while serving in the Altar, that I had the experience of my brother and father being there with me, to the point that I could smell them and so forth.
Jeff the Finn

 

[Suzannah]

Jeff! Glad to know I am not alone in this...Thank you for sharing about your brother and father, because I have recently had an experience like this.

I would love to hear what others have to say!

 

[Suzannah]

The Finns as well, in pre Christian Finland there were totems for the ancestors. I was born and raised in the USA, my parents were immigrants from Finland. When I was 18 I got to go to Finland. It was a mystical experience for me, I felt like I belonged there, it was very difficult for me to describe that sense to my parents when I got home. I found your comments right on the mark Suzannah in your OP.
I would add nicodemus that it is also quite alright to ask your ancestors to pray for you as well.
It was I think my third Holy Pascha while serving in the Altar, that I had the experience of my brother and father being there with me, to the point that I could smell them and so forth.
Jeff the Finn

Jeff, I sense it is okay to ask: what is your opinion of the racial memory theory???
Do you think it has any merit?

 

[nicodemus]

Jeff, I sense it is okay to ask: what is your opinion of the racial memory theory???
Do you think it has any merit?

I'm not exactly sure what the "racial memory theory" is, but if it has anything to do with the fact that certain "non-tangibles" are ingrained in the memory of a people, I do believe that to a certain extent.

I'm from the southern United States (Alabama in particular)...home to bluegrass music. Both of my parents are from rural areas of the state, my dad from an area where the music is particularly strong and loved. My family has lived in Alabama since before it was a state. I do feel I can tell when "our people" are playing this kind of music rather than when someone from another region plays it. There is some "something" that allows us to perform it better, and truer than folks from the midwest or northeast or northwest. I can pick out in a second when a performer of this style isn't from the region and I do think it has something to do with a "cultural memory." I'm hesitant to use the term "racial memory," but I will use "cultural memory."

 

[Suzannah]

Hi Nicodemus: Yes, that is exactly what i mean. It is also referred to as "genetic memory"....I prefer "genetic" rather than the term "racial" but that is simply more widely used...

I completely understand what you are saying. I play the harp, and I can always tell when an American is playing. It's something born in us. I can't explain it. But I had the feeling also when I started going to the Orthodox services, that my "cells remember" this.

(Are you part Irish? Many southern Americans are...)

 

[nicodemus]

(Are you part Irish? Many southern Americans are...)

Probably somewhere. Most of us Americans are such mutts its hard to tell. I gave up on that whole heritage thing a long time ago. Good portions of my family have been in the USA for over 200 years, so I consider myself exclusively American. I do know from a brief survey of the surnames in my family tree that there is Scottish, Welsh, English & German. Don't know about anything else though. I've never been to any of those countries, so I don't identify with them in the slightest.

 

[Suzannah]

Nicodemus: I hereby pronounce you an American Celt!

Irish people have much love for the "southerners" of America because so many of them took the Irish traditions and adapted them to American culture. Good history video is "The Long Journey Home".

 

[Photini]

(Are you part Irish? Many southern Americans are...)

Supposedly I am...from my mother's side. And supposedly part Scottish from my father's side. But the greatest part is native American (Cherokee). I was born and raised in southeast Missouri.

As far as the "cultural memory"...I agree. You can really hear this in jazz and blues too.

 

[nicodemus]

Nicodemus: I hereby pronounce you an American Celt!

Thanks!

Irish people have much love for the "southerners" of America because so many of them took the Irish traditions and adapted them to American culture. Good history video is "The Long Journey Home".

They'd have to have much love for Southerners, we're a lovable bunch I've heard of that video but haven't seen it.