Article IV Questions

[Noscentia]

Article IV: Of Justification.

1] Also they teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for 2] Christ's sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. 3] This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. Rom. 3 and 4.

If I understand Lutheranism correctly, there are no works men can do to justify themselves before God. Faith alone is the means to salvation. One thing I want to understand is, do our actions matter if works don't matter? Is it possible to have faith and live a life devoid of good works and still make it into heaven? Can sufficiently negative works override salvation granted through faith?

Additionally, the bible in such passages as James 2:14-26, seem to explicitly call us to indulge in good works, that to have faith without works is to be spiritually dead. I've seen this passage and its message compared/paralleled to the story of Jesus and the fig tree, wherein he rebuked it for bearing no fruit and the tree died. How does Lutheranism address/interpret these passages? I'm also aware of Ephesians 2:8-9 which fairly explicitly shows that we are saved by grace, through faith and not works. So I'm unsure how these two verses, which seem to espouse different views on salvation, are reconciled by Lutherans.

I'm actually very interested in Lutheranism, so I don't mean to seem confrontational, I'm genuinely curious about the finer parts of this denomination.

 

[Haramis]

Not Lutheran, but I don't see anything especially unique about that article of confession. Most Christians agree that we are not absolved by works, but by faith. However, when faith is possessed, helping others will naturally flow out of it.

do our actions matter if works don't matter?

Only for us. They help us grow, and mature. So while they are very important in a Christian's life, they have a purpose beyond the act itself.

If someone did something objectively good, like say donate all of their possessions at death to needy children. But they did it because they felt like their salvation was in question, and they were doing it to spare themselves from judgment, I believe it would be useless. The act itself is useless to God. What is important is the spirit in which it is done.

Works are both a manifestation of our faith, and a tool that aids us in spiritual development.

 

[Noscentia]

Not Lutheran, but I don't see anything especially unique about that article of confession. Most Christians agree that we are not absolved by works, but by faith. However, when faith is possessed, helping others will naturally flow out of it.
Only for us. They help us grow, and mature. So while they are very important in a Christian's life, they have a purpose beyond the act itself.

If someone did something objectively good, like say donate all of their possessions at death to needy children. But they did it because they felt like their salvation was in question, and they were doing it to spare themselves from judgment, I believe it would be useless. The act itself is useless to God. What is important is the spirit in which it is done.

Works are both a manifestation of our faith, and a tool that aids us in spiritual development.

The issue I'm asking to be addressed is that the Lutheran view is that salvation is gained through faith alone and there are several passages of scripture which support this view. However, there are also some, such as those I mentioned above, which very explicitly seem to state that faith without works is entirely meaningless, or worse. The reference I listed from James even calls this form of faith 'dead.'

I wanted to know how Lutherans read such passages from their point of view in a way that is compatible with that particular article of the Confession. I also asked the following based on the sola fide point of view: Is it possible to have faith and live a life devoid of good works and still make it into heaven? Can sufficiently negative works override salvation granted through faith?

 

[Haramis]

which very explicitly seem to state that faith without works is entirely meaningless, or worse.

Yes, though I'd point out part of this is a language barrier. The word "faith" is being used in a way that also refers to beliefs.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

In James's 19th verse, we see that he's saying simply understanding and accepting the fact of God is not how it is defined. Which is why he brings up devils. They know of God and Jesus too. But they're in open rebellion against God. So knowledge alone is not enough.

Verse 21 explains exactly why this is the case. God called upon Abraham, and he acted. If Abraham had simply said "You're amazing God!" and then ignored God's command to sacrifice Issac, then that was not faith.

Anyone who is saved will always be called to action by God. He is saying that when God calls, you must act. How that person is called will be different, but it will happen to everyone.

So it isn't "Doing good works", it is "Following God's direction".

 

[Noscentia]

I do appreciate your replies, but I don't know if your answers are consistent with Lutheran teachings or if that's the same definition of faith used in the confessions or understood by Lutherans, so I'd like to get a Lutheran perspective on my initial questions before I get too far ahead of myself.

 

[Tigger45]

Hang on bud @MarkRohfrietsch or @ViaCrucis can answer your questions from a Lutheran perspective.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If I understand Lutheranism correctly, there are no works men can do to justify themselves before God. Faith alone is the means to salvation. One thing I want to understand is, do our actions matter if works don't matter? Is it possible to have faith and live a life devoid of good works and still make it into heaven? Can sufficiently negative works override salvation granted through faith?

Additionally, the bible in such passages as James 2:14-26, seem to explicitly call us to indulge in good works, that to have faith without works is to be spiritually dead. I've seen this passage and its message compared/paralleled to the story of Jesus and the fig tree, wherein he rebuked it for bearing no fruit and the tree died. How does Lutheranism address/interpret these passages? I'm also aware of Ephesians 2:8-9 which fairly explicitly shows that we are saved by grace, through faith and not works. So I'm unsure how these two verses, which seem to espouse different views on salvation, are reconciled by Lutherans.

I'm actually very interested in Lutheranism, so I don't mean to seem confrontational, I'm genuinely curious about the finer parts of this denomination.

Ho Noscentia,

Simple answer is that you can not have one without the other. Let's say a person has no faith, but they love and dote over their Children and Grand-Children; buys flowers for his wife; gives money to the local hospital, etc. Are these good works? By the standards of society, this fellow would be a "Good Guy", yet because this person rejects God, these works mean nothing other than in the present; they carry no weight nor merit in the eternal.

Likewise, a Christian that believes faithfully in God, but goes about lying, cheating, hits his wife etc. has fallen short. As James says, faith without works is dead.

For a Christian, Lutherans believe that works are a result of faith; the fruits of that faith, and a witness to that faith.

So to summarize, faith without works is dead, but works without faith are meaningless.

From Luther's "Small Catechism"; his explanation of the third article of the Apostles Creed:

The Third Article.

Of Sanctification.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

What does this mean?--Answer.

I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life. This is most certainly true.​

 

[Noscentia]

Ho Noscentia,

Simple answer is that you can not have one without the other. Let's say a person has no faith, but they love and dote over their Children and Grand-Children; buys flowers for his wife; gives money to the local hospital, etc. Are these good works? By the standards of society, this fellow would be a "Good Guy", yet because this person rejects God, these works mean nothing other than in the present; they carry no weight nor merit in the eternal.

Likewise, a Christian that believes faithfully in God, but goes about lying, cheating, hits his wife etc. has fallen short. As James says, faith without works is dead.

For a Christian, Lutherans believe that works are a result of faith; the fruits of that faith, and a witness to that faith.

So to summarize, faith without works is dead, but works without faith are meaningless.

From Luther's "Small Catechism"; his explanation of the third article of the Apostles Creed:

The Third Article.

Of Sanctification.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

What does this mean?--Answer.

I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life. This is most certainly true.​

Thank you, this is immensely helpful, but it does raise some questions for me. By this understanding, it is possible to have faith while not indulging in works. That being the case, are you saying works are a requirement alongside faith in order to achieve salvation? According to Lutheranism, would the believer in your example, the true-faith Christian who abuses his family etc. be condemned despite his faith?

Some of my research came from the series of videos by a pastor belonging to ELDoNA which I'll post below. Is his version of Lutheranism consistent with yours? And if so, how then do we condemn the true-faith Christian from the previous example if faith really is all that is required? I really appreciate you taking the time to reply, these questions have been bothering me for awhile.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Thank you, this is immensely helpful, but it does raise some questions for me. By this understanding, it is possible to have faith while not indulging in works. That being the case, are you saying works are a requirement alongside faith in order to achieve salvation? According to Lutheranism, would the believer in your example, the true-faith Christian who abuses his family etc. be condemned despite his faith?

While I can not presume to know the mind of God regarding the hypothetical person in my example, it may not be too much of a stretch to presume that the faith may be no more than a profession, rather than a real "living" faith as we see in James.

Lutheranism also holds to the doctrine of Justus et peccator, that we are both saint and sinner at the same time. We can't help but sin; even St. Paul was bold about this in calling himself "Chief of Sinners". This is why we must reject the concept of once saved, always saved. While we are justified by faith (justification), Sanctification is an on going thing that is only complete when we enter heaven; however Sanctification is not something that we can earn. Luther speaks of having to "put away the old Adam" daily (continually) and Scripture talks about us being stalked continually by the devil and tells us to be clear headed and vigilant at all times.

Some of my research came from the series of videos by a pastor belonging to ELDoNA which I'll post below. Is his version of Lutheranism consistent with yours? And if so, how then do we condemn the true-faith Christian from the previous example if faith really is all that is required? I really appreciate you taking the time to reply, these questions have been bothering me for awhile.

We don't condemn him, only God can do that; but just as we look to the "cloud of witnesses" as an example of Godly and holy lives, we can look to the wife-beater as a negative example. Rather than condemnation, we should be holy examples to those who we see who may be falling a bit short on living faith. I think it was Thomas Aquinas who wrote about imitating Christ, and the idea that Christians should be "little Christs" is not a new concept either. The idea of repentance comes through both in the AC and in the Apology of the AC. While James states that faith without works is dead; faith without repentant is not faith.

 

[Noscentia]

While I can not presume to know the mind of God regarding the hypothetical person in my example, it may not be too much of a stretch to presume that the faith may be no more than a profession, rather than a real "living" faith as we see in James.

Lutheranism also holds to the doctrine of Justus et peccator, that we are both saint and sinner at the same time. We can't help but sin; even St. Paul was bold about this in calling himself "Chief of Sinners". This is why we must reject the concept of once saved, always saved. While we are justified by faith (justification), Sanctification is an on going thing that is only complete when we enter heaven; however Sanctification is not something that we can earn. Luther speaks of having to "put away the old Adam" daily (continually) and Scripture talks about us being stalked continually by the devil and tells us to be clear headed and vigilant at all times.



We don't condemn him, only God can do that; but just as we look to the "cloud of witnesses" as an example of Godly and holy lives, we can look to the wife-beater as a negative example. Rather than condemnation, we should be holy examples to those who we see who may be falling a bit short on living faith. I think it was Thomas Aquinas who wrote about imitating Christ, and the idea that Christians should be "little Christs" is not a new concept either. The idea of repentance comes through both in the AC and in the Apology of the AC. While James states that faith without works is dead; faith without repentant is not faith.

So good works are evidence of honest faith, and a lack of them is evidence for a lack thereof (even if they profess to have it)? James is just saying that faith without works is evidence that that faith isn't genuine?

Also, if faith is sufficient for justification, are good works part of the mechanism for sanctification? Is working towards sanctification (but obviously not completing it) while alive on Earth a requirement to enter heaven? Sorry, I'm really struggling with all this, it's very confusing. It's hard for me to see the difference between other denominations' views of faith alone versus faith plus works.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So good works are evidence of honest faith, and a lack of them is evidence for a lack thereof (even if they profess to have it)? James is just saying that faith without works is evidence that that faith isn't genuine?

Also, if faith is sufficient for justification, are good works part of the mechanism for sanctification? Is working towards sanctification (but obviously not completing it) while alive on Earth a requirement to enter heaven? Sorry, I'm really struggling with all this, it's very confusing. It's hard for me to see the difference between other denominations' views of faith alone versus faith plus works.

Yes, we do struggle; we have scripture and the witness of the saints; but besides that only faith that what we are given in Scripture is what God wants us to know, and therefore what we need to know. Works in and of themselves mean nothing without faith. A bed ridden invalid with the simplest of faith maybe can not do any works; yet they are saved by faith. An able-bodied person who shuns good work but professes faith is squandering what God has given them (bad stewards) and the Bible talks about that in our Lord's parables.

The rest we take as wrote, on faith; and we let the Holy Spirit enliven within us the spirit of grace and charity, so that our works please God. As I say, without faith, the person is cut off from God, and therefore can not please God no matter how many starving children he feeds.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So good works are evidence of honest faith, and a lack of them is evidence for a lack thereof (even if they profess to have it)? James is just saying that faith without works is evidence that that faith isn't genuine

I'm late to the party, but if it's okay for me to offer my own thoughts here: I'd say this is an accurate summation. But what is absolutely critical is that we do not gauge our standing before God on our works, and especially it is not within our rights to judge our brother on this.

So, yes, as Luther says, faith does not ask if one should do good works, faith simply does them without asking if they should be done. So, indeed, faith without works is dead; but it is not on account of the works themselves that we measure our place before God or reckon ourselves justified: this is by the Grace of God alone in what He has done already for us in Christ Jesus, which He has imputed to us freely and which is apprehended through faith which is itself the gift of God.

Two really helpful terms here: Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus. They translate to "Before God" and "Before man". Before God we are to understand our relationship to Him as being entirely by His grace, through the Gospel, clung to through faith. Before our fellow man we are to understand our relationship with our neighbors as being through our works, according to God's Law. Or to put it another way: God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor does. God doesn't need our good works because even our best works aren't going to impress Him, and because even our best works are tainted by sin; but nevertheless our neighbor needs food, needs a roof over their head, needs medicine, needs to be loved, comforted, given kindness, and to be treated justly and rightly. God cares about His creatures, so that means God cares about our fellow man, and if we have faith--the faith which He has given us--to trust and believe upon Christ, then the love with which He loves us and the world is the same love we should go out into the world with, loving our neighbor as ourself. If we have not love, we are but a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

So it is about rightly understanding the role of faith and the role of good works: faith is that through which God turns us toward Himself, freely justifying us, and clothing us with the righteousness of Jesus; good works is that which is to be done out of a thankful, gracious heart that has been redeemed and freely forgiven. The former is about our hope in Christ and the life everlasting, the latter is about our place here in the world among a broken, hurting creation as the redeemed, cross-bearing people of God

Also, if faith is sufficient for justification, are good works part of the mechanism for sanctification? Is working towards sanctification (but obviously not completing it) while alive on Earth a requirement to enter heaven? Sorry, I'm really struggling with all this, it's very confusing. It's hard for me to see the difference between other denominations' views of faith alone versus faith plus works.

Insofar as sanctification is that by which God is conforming us to the image of His Son, then good works are a fundamental part of that. But there is no heavenly scale, there are not merits to be earned, no points to be scored; the works are to be done for the sake of the works themselves, not out of hope for reward. Our hope of the future world does not depend on our works or our "progress" in this life--in this life we will remain sinful beggars, and it is only by clinging to the hope and promises of God which are found in Christ that we can look forward to the future life which God has promised us by Christ's death and resurrection. So, no, our works do not get us "into heaven", but they are essential as we are servants of Jesus Christ called to minister and serve our fellow man in love and mercy; and such works flow from a faithful and thankful heart.

It's that critical distinction between Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus, of Gospel and Law, never confusing one for the other, and never denying one or the other.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Tangible]

This excerpt from a letter from Luther to Melanchthon may also be helpful as you work through this ...

https://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt

 

[FireDragon76]

When the Gospel is correctly preached, it either brings belief or offense, but seldom indifference. I'm particularly reminded of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment. At one point, he interjects a bit of his own theology into a monologue of a drunk that has descended into destitution, forcing his daughter into prostitution. He knows he has done something rotten, but he's obviously caught up in forces beyond his control. He has a hope that at the last judgement, Christ will welcome the prostitutes and drunkards, to shame the wise and learned, declaring that he welcomes them for no other reason than no one has ever found them worthy. And the wise and learned will fall down on their faces, weeping at his words. That is a Gospel he wants to believe in, a Gospel of grace, even for the unworthy. Or rather, especially for the unworthy. And that monologue rings true for me. "The least, the lost, and the last" were the objects of Jesus compassion.

I don't think good works are necessarily "evidence" of faith in Lutheranism in quite the same way as in other evangelical traditions. In the example you give of the abusive husband who has faith- all Christians struggle. And looking around for somebody to single out as a particularly heinous sinner is often symptomatic of our own sinful tendencies. One thing I appreciate about Lutherans is that for them the Gospel is about the business of forgiveness more than transformation. Many "little ones" have been crucified on the gospel of transformation.

My pastor talks about the power of myth to motivate behavior, which is something I had not previously considered because I came from a Christian tradition that emphasizes "doing" so much.. By myth, he doesn't mean something perjorative, such as something untrue. He means a story we tell about the world. That's the way I look at faith... it motivates us to live differently than if we had no faith. But it doesn't follow from that we will all must live up to some particular standard to be deemed acceptable. The ability to discern who is repentant requires a great deal of accompanying somebody on their journey of faith, it is not something one does according to an impersonal legalism. The words of Jesus about causing a little one to stumble apply here.

 

[Kalevalatar]

For a Christian, Lutherans believe that works are a result of faith; the fruits of that faith, and a witness to that faith.

So to summarize, faith without works is dead, but works without faith are meaningless.

So, yes, as Luther says, faith does not ask if one should do good works, faith simply does them without asking if they should be done. So, indeed, faith without works is dead; but it is not on account of the works themselves that we measure our place before God or reckon ourselves justified: this is by the Grace of God alone in what He has done already for us in Christ Jesus, which He has imputed to us freely and which is apprehended through faith which is itself the gift of God.

Which is why Lutherans, though not hostile to religious communities and personal retreats per se, do not endorse secluded/cloistered/enclosed monastries devoted to personal prayer and Bible studies with little domestic work on the side, isn't it? Because living faith is about serving others and one's community like Jesus served us, instead of retreating from the world to serve God and one's faith alone.

One thing I appreciate about Lutherans is that for them the Gospel is about the business of forgiveness more than transformation.

Indeed. If we could buy our own forgiveness, and maybe our loved-ones' too, by simply doing the right stuff, lots of it, why did Jesus had to suffer and die for? The original sin was about our estrangement from God. So how does one person, one sinner, atone, pay back, that, for all mankind? With how many hours of his or her life? We are not talking about simple war reparations or corvees.