Art Model

[wyatt1111]

So much judgment and very little biblical foundation... Kind of sickening.

 

[wyatt1111]

It seems pretty evident to me that you're simply seeing what you want to see in the responses you're getting.

Selah.

I am glad I am not an African or Isaiah.

 

[wyatt1111]

I will never go to another art museum again. So sinful!!!!

 

[FoundInGrace]

Plenty of verses on modesty and not causing others to stumble.
I'll post them when I can.

It was years ago I drew a nude model but the image is still in my head. It must be a lot more difficult for males to rid themselves of the images.

I I don't want to draw another nude model to be honest. It's just a bit gross to put myself somewhere where someone is exposing themselves. I don't really feel comfortable viewing historical nudes either, art might be art but its still nakedness which isn't modesty which is a virtue.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

I am not speaking about myself and my friends, the fact that women are less visual than men is scientifically proven. Of course there are exceptions.

Not everything proven through science always goes hand in hand with how God made things. But we can also agree to disagree on this. I still think women and men can both be as visual about each other when it comes to the physical part, or there will be differences depending from person to person, and how they view things.

 

[Sketcher]

For a figure drawing class? I have no moral problem with it, as long as the model can hold still. I took those classes in college, I know what it's about.

I think it would be sinful for a Christian woman to pose nude- even in an academic setting, because it could stimulate the men drawing her.

As someone who has taken several of those classes, and as someone who deals with lust often, I actually disagree with this. In the class, first of all it is an awkward environment. Second, you're focused on recording what you see on the page. That doesn't give lust a whole lot of room to work, we're not good multitaskers. I may have lusted more in other classes that had traditional lecture formats than I did in my drawing classes.

Not only that, but the models more often than not were quite unattractive to begin with. Even when we had attractive or somewhat attractive models, the environment still made it hard to fixate and lust.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Not everything proven through science always goes hand in hand with how God made things. But we can also agree to disagree on this. I still think women and men can both be as visual about each other when it comes to the physical part, or there will be differences depending from person to person, and how they view things.

Well, I guess there are also degrees of nudity; for example, some life models or either gender will wear a cloth across their midsection; and I still think purpose and context have a lot to do with it also.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

Well, I guess there are also degrees of nudity; for example, some life models or either gender will wear a cloth across their midsection; and I still think purpose and context have a lot to do with it also.

Then women should have a cloth on their upper part as well. Or maybe you meant the type of greek outfit in which they wear an attire which goes up to their shoulder and down to the ankle? That's covered as well.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Then women should have a cloth on their upper part as well. Or maybe you meant the type of greek outfit in which they wear an attire which goes up to their shoulder and down to the ankle? That's covered as well.

Up here in Canada a court legalized topless sunbathing a number of years ago; not that I think that it's a good idea. I think this is quite common on European beaches also; maybe not so much in the US.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

Up here in Canada a court legalized topless sunbathing a number of years ago; not that I think that it's a good idea. I think this is quite common on European beaches also; maybe not so much in the US.

Yeah, it sure is common to do that in many european countries. Or especially the westernized ones.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yeah, it sure is common to do that in many european countries. Or especially the westernized ones.

So I guess it could be argued that it's not unusual, and then also if there is a special purpose in learning to draw anatomically and accurately, it's maybe hard to argue against categorically.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

So I guess it could be argued that it's not unusual, and then also if there is a special purpose in learning to draw anatomically and accurately, it's maybe hard to argue against categorically.

Hehe... I stay away from most crowded beaches now anyways, I'd rather bath in a solitary water part.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hehe... I stay away from most crowded beaches now anyways, I'd rather bath in a solitary water part.

Well, this is your own preference; and it's not connected to life drawing, either. I was just pointing out some of the various differences in context and purpose.

PS: Did you learn how to pronounce Scheveningen yet? where there are Holland's more famous beaches.

 

[Archivist]

Modern western cultures have not taken a biblical view of public nudity, that's for sure. I suppose this is to be expected in cultures saturated by porn and promiscuity as so many are today. And Christians arguing for such stuff is a testament to just how far from biblical Christianity believers have drifted, carried along by the ever-darkening currents of secular society.

Drawing nudes smacks of the evil of Romans 1:25 in a way drawing a horse, or a boat, or a landscape never could. The fundamental cause of human sin is a disposition toward Self-centeredness, toward pride and rebellion against God manifested in a preoccupation with the human rather than the divine. This rebellious preoccupation seems particularly evident to me in the drawing of the nude human form. No where in Scripture is there even a hint that looking on the nude form of another person who is not one's spouse is an appropriate (and definitely not recommended) act. We are urged in the Bible to look away from earthly, carnal things, and look instead upon Christ and consider things eternal and spiritual (He. 12:1, 2; Col. 3:1-3) Yes, yes, I know we may have to get naked for a doctor, but apart from doing so out of medical necessity there is no morally-acceptable reason offered in Scripture to be publicly nude.

What's more, at least for men, the nude female form is sexually arousing, even if the arousal is mild and easily stifled. Certainly, having to stare very carefully at another person's body and take in every curve, and crease, and shade is not conducive to pure thinking.

I am a pretty skilled artist (nwaikikai.deviantart.com) and know very well what is involved in creating detailed, true-to-life art. I have considered working from nudes in order to better render the human form but as a Christian I just cannot see that doing so would be honoring to my Heavenly Father and helpful in becoming more like Christ - both of which things are far, far, far more important than being able to draw a naked person.

Are you saying that medical students shouldn't see people naked as part of their training? Drawing the naked human form is part of training for an artist.

 

[Martyr's Crown]

PS: Did you learn how to pronounce Scheveningen yet? where there are Holland's more famous beaches.

I do think I may know how to pronunce that, though should let my husband listen to me first just to be sure of this. So far we haven't been going to any beaches here in The Netherlands ever since I moved here, we haven't been so interested in going there. Also because many beaches here gets so full so that you can hardly swim in it. Or that's at least the picture I got in my mind when told about how most beaches get in The Netherlands. But who knows, maybe there are some beaches that are less popular or more solitary ones, too?

<<Sorry for going off-topic>>

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you saying that medical students shouldn't see people naked as part of their training? Drawing the naked human form is part of training for an artist.

But is God concerned that we must have medical drawings? Or is that something that the world is concerned about?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It seems to me my questions have been ignored time and time again. Why was Isaiah commanded to preach naked for three years? God would lot command someone to sin. Answer this...

Here is part of an article by Lavista Church on the point of Isaiah's nakedness and as an answer to anyone who thinks public nudity is not a problem within our sinful world.

It was God who recorded before the fall of man, "And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed" (Genesis 2:25) and it was God who recorded after the fall, "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings" (Genesis 3:7). What changed was man's realization of good and evil, their loss of innocence. Man's response was to attempt to cover himself. "So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself"" Genesis 3:10). The statement is clear. The reason for the fear and the hiding was because man realized he was naked. An it was God who gave Adam and Eve adequate clothing. "Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them" (Genesis 3:21).

The simple fact is that because man sinned, a consequence of that sin was an awareness of nakedness. God's response to that was clothing. The clothing was for man's sake, not God's as you incorrectly claim.

Some time later: "And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him" (Genesis 9:20-24). In regards to the topic at hand, Ham found the nakedness of his father something unusual, perhaps of amusement -- enough to tell others about it. In this he showed disrespect for his father. Shem and Japheth refused to look at their father's nakedness and hid it. In this they showed Noah respect. Yet, the key to understanding this event is knowing that nakedness was a matter of shame, even in the privacy of a person's own tent.

Some time later, God ordered, "Nor shall you go up by steps to My altar, that your nakedness may not be exposed on it" (Exodus 20:26). God did not want people able to see up underneath clothing during worship. From this we understand that people typically were clothed, you claim otherwise on your web site but the claim is unproven. We also understand that God did not want sensuality as a part of His worship and to prevent it ordered things to minimize the possibility. In addition, the priests were to wear undergarments. "And you shall make for them linen trousers to cover their nakedness; they shall reach from the waist to the thighs. They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they come into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister in the holy place, that they do not incur iniquity and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and his descendants after him" (Exodus 28:42-43). Notice that it was God who threatened the priests with death if they did not adequately clothe themselves in His tabernacle.

Job describes the wicked as people to take advantage of others. "They push the needy off the road; all the poor of the land are forced to hide. Indeed, like wild donkeys in the desert, they go out to their work, searching for food. The wilderness yields food for them and for their children. They gather their fodder in the field and glean in the vineyard of the wicked. They spend the night naked, without clothing, and have no covering in the cold. They are wet with the showers of the mountains, and huddle around the rock for want of shelter. Some snatch the fatherless from the breast, and take a pledge from the poor. They cause the poor to go naked, without clothing; and they take away the sheaves from the hungry" (Job 24:4-10). While stating the point in the extreme (a type of figure of speech called hyperbole), we need to take notice that a right of people is to have clothing as it gives protection from the elements. Nakedness is not a normal state, but used to illustrate someone too poor to care for himself. That is why Christ praised those who cared for the poor by clothing them. "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me'" (Matthew 25:34-40).

"At the same time the LORD spoke by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, "Go, and remove the sackcloth from your body, and take your sandals off your feet." And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. Then the LORD said, "Just as My servant Isaiah has walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and a wonder against Egypt and Ethiopia, so shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians as prisoners and the Ethiopians as captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt. Then they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation and Egypt their glory" (Isaiah 20:2-5).

The "shame" in Isaiah 20:4 is the word 'erwah in Hebrew. The Complete Biblical Library defines it as:

"Almost always referring to exposure of the genital area, usually of women, 'erwah can also mean 'nakedness' or 'shame.' Cognates are attested in Samaritan, Akkadian, and Arabic.

In Exodus 20:26, the priests are to be careful to have their genital area covered under their robes as they go up on the altar to offer sacrifices. Public exposure of the genitals was considered a very shameful thing and so became an idiom for shame (I Samuel 20:30; Ezekiel 16:36) or something indecent (Deuteronomy 23:14; 24:1) Captives were shamed by being stripped (Isaiah 20:4). Furthermore, the shame of judgment for unrepentant sin is described by the Lord as exposing the nakedness of his unfaithful bride and causing her lovers to despise her (Isaiah 47:3; Lamentations 1:8; Ezekiel 16:37; 23:10). This word is even used idiomatically for something being unprotected (Genesis 42:9,12). The cognate 'arom is the word used for some stage of undress in general.

Exposing the genitals of a woman became a euphemism for having sexual intercourse with her and, in Leviticus 18 and 20, the restrictions on this are included in the directions for acceptable marriages. The only relationship acceptable for the intimacy of uncovering one's genitals to another person was marriage.

Ham saw his father's nakedness when Noah was lying in his tent drunk, and then his brothers discreetly covered their father's nakedness (Genesis 9:22). Noah's curse, after he sobered up and realized what Ham had done, suggests some of Ham's descendants, the Canaanites, would follow in his sinful ways and become so bad that God would use Israel to bring judgment on them. Archaeological finds have shown the Canaanites to have been quite sexually immoral in their worship. The sin of Ham was a lack of proper respect for his father and thus a serious shaming of him."

If, as you claim, Isaiah's nakedness was acceptable to God and society in his day, then he illustrated nothing. But this illustration was against Egypt and Ethiopia. In conducting this illustration, Isaiah was told to do something people didn't normally do. The meaning of the prophecy was that Egypt and Ethiopia would be lead away with their genitals exposed (an idiom for shame) and parallel to that (showing that "shame" is a proper translation) Ethiopia would be afraid and ashamed. The "ashamed" in Isaiah 20:5 is a different Hebrew word, bosh, which means to feel shame or to be ashamed. The message here is that Isaiah illustrated the shameful treatment of the Egyptians and Ethiopians at the hands of the Assyrians, he did so by being naked for three years.

Please notice that in "Your nakedness shall be uncovered, yes, your shame will be seen; I will take vengeance, and I will not arbitrate with a man" (Isaiah 47:3). "Nakedness" is the Hebrew word 'erwah defined above. It is stating that their genitals would be exposed and their shame would be seen. The Hebrew word is cherpah, which means disgrace or shameful behavior.

"And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it" (I Corinthians 12:23-24).
​

Paul uses the human body, as created by God, to illustrate the relationship between brethren. Some parts of the human body are presentable and others unpresentable. By this all understand that parts, such as the face and hands, are presentable while parts, such as the genitals, are unpresentable. Yet we give the unpresentable parts greater honor by covering them up and keeping them private.

In all this, your basic argument is that God made quality work. That isn't contested. You claim that because it is quality work, it ought to be exposed. Yet, consistently through the Bible complete exposure of the human body is considered an act of shame.

Your first note claims that exposure will reduce lust, but nowhere have you shown that God says to use exposure of the body as a means of combating lust. You assert nudity will stop lust. You assert that nudity was prevalent in ancient societies. I agree it existed, but it didn't solve the problem of lust. "Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles -- when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries" (I Peter 4:1-3). Lewdness and lust as a wide-spread problem in these societies that condoned nudity. It would be easier to argue that nudity promoted lust than to claim it reduced it. God doesn't tell Christians to imitate the Gentiles, but to go in the opposite direction.

​

Source:
Would constant exposure to nudity reduce lust?

 

[Ray Blick]

Hi everyone,

I have a question. I am a married artist and am wondering what your thoughts are on a christian modeling in the nude for a figure drawing class? Is this completely unacceptable? Would this be forbidden in a marriage even though it is not sexual? I am just curious to see how it would be perceived within a CHristian Community.

Look forward to some insight as I have been asked to do this but not sure as a Christian if this is "sin" if there are no alterior motives other than helping artists improve their drawing skills.

Hi wyatt111
Art is a profession and requires anatomy studies just like the medical profession and massage etc.

A few things come to mind that are scriptually based such as abstain from the appearance of evil. It may be wise to protect our modesty lest the unsaved are watching and judging us.

I remember 20 or so years ago, a couple of years before I was saved I attended nude model workshops to paint and study. I had been desensitised by the world and tried to kid myself that it was ok. They were some other persons spouses up there in those positions.

The classes were short lived after my wife an I were engaged. I simply wasn't allowed to do it anymore. I just needed my wife to confirm to me that it was not right. But that was us.

Looking at it now i know that I can still sin through gazing on other flesh long enough so praise God for my wife, who loved me enough to relieve me from what I knew deep down to be wrong.

But for you it may be different.

It's a touchy topic , it really is, our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and are sacred. They belong to the Lord. The Lord gives us spouses so we can honour and respect each other.

We are all naked before the Lord.

All I can advise you is that as Christians we are being watched closely and scrutinised by potential saints who may find nude modelling wrong so therefore we need to be careful not to put a stumbling block in the way for them.

Be wise as a serpent and innocent as doves.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, is not God the ultimate giver and taker of life? Yes.
God is ultimately in control of life and death.
Did God command His people at one time to take life?
Yes, God commanded the Israelites to take the life of their enemies.
But this was only during a specific point in time within history.
God is no longer commanding us to take the life of His enemies.
On the contrary, God commands us to love and do good towards our enemies.

In other words, with the situation with Isaiah, God was exposing his nakedness and displaying his shame as a prophetic picture of what was going to happen to Ethiopia and Egypt (Which was only done in a specific point in time for a specific purpose). God was telling Isaiah to do something unique to make a point about the upcoming shame that was going to come upon Ethiopa and Egypt by them being forced to be naked. Nakedness brings shame. Under God's direction, God made Isaiah in this one instance to show his own shame (nakedness) so as part of a prophecy. Nowhere did God tell all of his prophets to go naked. God does not desire us to go around naked and to preach like Isaiah on Ethiopa and Egypt. That was for Isaiah. That was his cross to bear. But to assume that Isaiah's nakedness was something God desires from us today is just silly. We are under a New Covenant with new commands.


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[Archivist]

But is God concerned that we must have medical drawings? Or is that something that the world is concerned about?

Is God concerned that we have properly trained doctors? There are certain professions where an understanding of the naked human body is necessary.