Art Model

[PollyJetix]

If you had taken the time top read what I wrote earlier, which apparently you did not, you would know that I said that "some references do say that the word could also be translated as lightly clad," so I already said this. However, as I also noted earlier that is a secondary definition not the primary meaning of the word. The primary meaning of the word is nude or naked. The general rule in translating is to use the English word that most closely matches the root Greek word that God chose to use.

Right... except that the usage may have varied, depending on the culture of the place where it was used.
Public nudity was unthinkable among strict religious Jews.
And the Jewish culture of the day was quite religious, in 1st-century Palestina.
The Greek word may have been primarily used in most Greek-speaking cultures to mean literal nudity.
However, it is a well-established historical fact that Jews tended to use hyperbole--to blow things a little out of proportion, not being quite literal. Just like they said EVERYONE was baptized by John the Baptist... even though later the Bible says the Pharisees weren't. So when they spoke of being in their underclothes, they called it naked. Typical Jewish hyperbole of that day.

 

[Archivist]

Adam and Eve felt immediately guilty, when they ate the fruit.
They looked at each other and themselves, and felt naked and ashamed.
So they made aprons to cover their private parts, by sewing fig leaves together. To hide their shame.
When God arrived on the scene, he asked them some questions, pronounced some curses and predictions of bad consequences... and then He made for them coats of skins of animals.

And you say, "Nowhere in Genesis does it say that God COMMANDED that they should wear the clothing He made for them."

you are kidding, right?

And exactly where is the commandment? It isn't there.

 

[Archivist]

Right... except that the usage may have varied, depending on the culture of the place where it was used.
Public nudity was unthinkable among strict religious Jews.
And the Jewish culture of the day was quite religious, in 1st-century Palestina.
The Greek word may have been primarily used in most Greek-speaking cultures to mean literal nudity.
However, it is a well-established historical fact that Jews tended to use hyperbole--to blow things a little out of proportion, not being quite literal. Just like they said EVERYONE was baptized by John the Baptist... even though later the Bible says the Pharisees weren't. So when they spoke of being in their underclothes, they called it naked. Typical Jewish hyperbole of that day.

We have to go with the words we are given. Oh, and where in scripture does it say that EVERYONE was baptized by John?

 

[PollyJetix]

We have to go with the words we are given. Oh, and where in scripture does it say that EVERYONE was baptized by John?

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

 

[PollyJetix]

And exactly where is the commandment? It isn't there.

So, if God showed up on your doorstep, with a garment made specifically for you, you would answer him with...
"Do I HAVE to? I really prefer this fig leaf!"...?

 

[Archivist]

Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Please read the last three words. The Pharisees would not confess that they were sinners, therefore they were not baptized.

 

[Archivist]

So, if God showed up on your doorstep, with a garment made specifically for you, you would answer him with...
"Do I HAVE to? I really prefer this fig leaf!"...?

Again, where is the commandment? Show me please. And God gave them clothing made from animal skins. Was that a command for all time as well, that we wear animal skins?

 

[PollyJetix]

Again, where is the commandment? Show me please. And God gave them clothing made from animal skins. Was that a command for all time as well, that we wear animal skins?

Sometimes, parents command without using words.
A look of the eye, a jerk of the neck, holding out a garment to the child...
If you know God as your Father, you don't have to have words. You know His "look." You can feel his eye on you.
And you know better than to challenge him with the kind of disrespect that demands words, as if he's a stranger.

The use of animal skins was actually a picture of what it would take to cover our spiritual shame.
Blood was shed, to cover shame.
It was the first animal sacrifice, pointing ahead to Christ, shedding his blood for you and me.

 

[Archivist]

Sometimes, parents command without using words.
A look of the eye, a jerk of the neck, holding out a garment to the child...
If you know God as your Father, you don't have to have words. You know His "look." You can feel his eye on you.
And you know better than to challenge him with the kind of disrespect that demands words, as if he's a stranger.

The use of animal skins was actually a picture of what it would take to cover our spiritual shame.
Blood was shed, to cover shame.
It was the first animal sacrifice, pointing ahead to Christ, shedding his blood for you and me.

So it was a command from God for all times that people should never be naked except marriage, but God never actually said it and it appears no where else in scripture. Why do I have a problem with that?

 

[PollyJetix]

So it was a command from God for all times that people should never be naked except marriage, but God never actually said it and it appears no where else in scripture. Why do I have a problem with that?

because you want to?

 

[Archivist]

because you want to?

Because no command was given. God doesn't give commands by a wink of the eye or a jerk if the neck.

 

[FoundInGrace]

There are principles throughout the Bible.
Eg modesty is a theme/principle, not being a stumbling block where we can help it etc. Though not directly stated as commands God has given us principles to live by that are quite obvious.

 

[FoundInGrace]

I don't always live by them obviously but they are there.

 

[wyatt1111]

so do the people opposed to figure art modeling in a professional drawing class also oppose going to art museums that depict the nude figure? nobody that is opposed to modeling for art classes has answered this question...

 

[FoundInGrace]

I find I have to look away... but that's just my issue I find it not good for me.

so do the people opposed to figure art modeling in a professional drawing class also oppose going to art museums that depict the nude figure? nobody that is opposed to modeling for art classes has answered this question...

 

[Archivist]

There are principles throughout the Bible.
Eg modesty is a theme/principle, not being a stumbling block where we can help it etc. Though not directly stated as commands God has given us principles to live by that are quite obvious.

But exactly how is modeling naked for wn art class--students who are learning how to draw the human form--being a stumbling block?

 

[PollyJetix]

so do the people opposed to figure art modeling in a professional drawing class also oppose going to art museums that depict the nude figure?

Of course.

 

[FoundInGrace]

But exactly how is modeling naked for wn art class--students who are learning how to draw the human form--being a stumbling block?

If you are unable to see then....

 

[Archivist]

If you are unable to see then....

It isn't a matter of being "unable to see." It is part of the professional training for artists. Would you want to be examined by a doctor who hadn't seen naked people as part of his/her training? Do you want to get a massage from a therapist who hasn't practiced on naked people? We are not talking about strippers here, we are talking about professional models.

 

[FoundInGrace]

It isn't a matter of being "unable to see." It is part of the professional training for artists. Would you want to be examined by a doctor who hadn't seen naked people as part of his/her training? Do you want to get a massage from a therapist who hasn't practiced on naked people? We are not talking about strippers here, we are talking about professional models.

Doctors I have no problem with, that's life and death necessity to train with the human body. While I have respect for art and artists it's hardly life and death necessity stuff is it. Completely different situations.