Arminianism is inconsistent

[mikedsjr]

Please provide me with statements made by Arminians that support your contention. Please provide the sources as well.

Now tell me what Arminius wrote about that same topic, providing references for those sources.

Otherwise you are making assertions but providing no evidence. Up to this point you have provided no specific evidence (with sources) to support your claims about Arminians.

Oz

http://evangelicalarminians.org/the...nian-theologythe-biblical-doctrines-of-grace/

The Freed to believe section as requested for my statement regarding free will of Arminians

 

[John Robie]

If Calvinist are God's elect why are their judgement of others almost always false. BTW that is being the accuser if it is not truth and that is satan's titled.

I think it's s bit disingenuous to say that Cavinists (or anyone's) judgement is almost always false, and to compare them to Satan. As a Calvinist, I think an apology is in order.

 

[OzSpen]

http://evangelicalarminians.org/the...nian-theologythe-biblical-doctrines-of-grace/

The Freed to believe section as requested for my statement regarding free will of Arminians

That's what Titus 2:11 (ESV) states: 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people'.

The evangelical Arminians are confirming nothing more or less than is in Scripture.

Oz

 

[John Robie]

That's what Titus 2:11 (ESV) states: 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people'.

The evangelical Arminians are confirming nothing more or less than is in Scripture.

Oz

In context of the chapter, this means all types of people. Any other understanding leads to universalism. I'm sure you'd agree.

 

[OzSpen]

In context of the chapter, this means all types of people. Any other understanding leads to universalism. I'm sure you'd agree.

John,

That's the kind of response I receive from Calvinists and it is what I get when exposing the fact that Titus 2:11 does not teach universalism. It also doesn't say anything in context about what you want it to say, 'all types of people'. Forcing 'all types', in my understanding, makes your view eisegesis - imposing on the text.

See my response to this in my article, How to interpret ‘appeared’ in Titus 2:11

Oz

 

[John Robie]

John,

That's the kind of response I receive from Calvinists and it is what I get when exposing the fact that Titus 2:11 does not teach universalism. It also doesn't say anything in context about what you want it to say, 'all types of people'. Forcing 'all types', in my understanding, makes your view eisegesis - imposing on the text.

See my response to this in my article, How to interpret ‘appeared’ in Titus 2:11

Oz

It doesn't make it eisegesis because Paul just finished discussing all types of people in the verses leading up to v. 11.

On top of that, Paul goes on to explain the result of salvation appearing. That's obviously not important to you. You just seem happy that you found salvation and all in one verse. Heck with the rest.

 

[mikedsjr]

That's what Titus 2:11 (ESV) states: 'For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people'.

The evangelical Arminians are confirming nothing more or less than is in Scripture.

Oz

Yes, he died for all people, but that never took away their sin until they repent and are baptized. Paul never stated all people were bought with a price. Christ died for all, but it's effect is not received until second birth.

 

[OzSpen]

It doesn't make it eisegesis because Paul just finished discussing all types of people in the verses leading up to v. 11.

On top of that, Paul goes on to explain the result of salvation appearing. That's obviously not important to you. You just seem happy that you found salvation and all in one verse. Heck with the rest.

That's a false conclusion and I've given you my explanation in the article link I provided. 'Heck with the rest' is your pejorative dumping on me.

 

[OzSpen]

Yes, he died for all people, but that never took away their sin until they repent and are baptized. Paul never stated all people were bought with a price. Christ died for all, but it's effect is not received until second birth.

I agree that Jesus died for all of the human race and that does not take about their sins until they repent and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation.

I do not accept your statement that people's sin was not taken away until they repented and were baptised. I don't find that teaching in Scripture. Yes, they are called on to repent and be baptised, but that is not teaching baptismal regeneration as Matt 28:18-20 makes clear. Baptism is associated with discipleship.

 

[John Robie]

That's a false conclusion and I've given you my explanation in the article link I provided. 'Heck with the rest' is your pejorative dumping on me.

Using a blog article in an online discussion is lazy. I could just post a link to counter. But I can tell that you are more interested in your view than the truth. The proof being that you not only used Titus 2:11 as a proof text, you couldn't even post the whole sentence.

I don't have much time anymore for online discussions. And you have shown you're unwilling to listen anyway. So have a great day and be blessed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It would stand to reason that even the idea of free grace could be rejected. Unless, Calvinists believe that people ALWAYS accept the Gospel the first time it is preached. Which is not true. Babies, very young children and those who otherwise cannot understand basic concepts must less those that are complex in nature are unable to accept or reject anything. Plus, they personally have done nothing for which they can be held accountable.

 

[John Robie]

It would stand to reason that even the idea of free grace could be rejected. Unless, Calvinists believe that people ALWAYS accept the Gospel the first time it is preached. Which is not true. Babies, very young children and those who otherwise cannot understand basic concepts must less those that are complex in nature are unable to accept or reject anything. Plus, they personally have done nothing for which they can be held accountable.

Do you believe that death comes about because of sin?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Do you believe that death comes about because of sin?

You mean overall or a particular person's.

 

[John Robie]

You mean overall or a particular person's.

A particular person. The wages of sin is death, and all that.

 

[dogs4thewin]

A particular person. The wages of sin is death, and all that.

Well, there are certain life choices people can make that make an early death more likely.

 

[mikedsjr]

I agree that Jesus died for all of the human race and that does not take about their sins until they repent and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation.

I do not accept your statement that people's sin was not taken away until they repented and were baptised. I don't find that teaching in Scripture. Yes, they are called on to repent and be baptised, but that is not teaching baptismal regeneration as Matt 28:18-20 makes clear. Baptism is associated with discipleship.

I disagree but due to Baptist forum SOF I'm not allowed to discuss. On this I'm firmly in the Lutheran camp. So I stated it in a specific way that doesn't go against Scripture and the Baptist SOF.

I'm fine with your disagreement, but you ignore what Peter said, unless your telling me he was wrong.

 

[John Robie]

Well, there are certain life choices people can make that make an early death more likely.

Not what I'm talking about. Do you believe scripture where it says the wages of sin is death?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not what I'm talking about. Do you believe scripture where it says the wages of sin is death?

yes

 

[John Robie]

yes

Then why do babies die?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Then why do babies die?

I am not sure. I do know that EVERY life owes a death at some point.