Arminianism and Calvinism. Why only two options?

[GenemZ]

Now here is where you are dead wrong!

According to the Greek, Eph. 2:8 reads:

"th gar cariti este seswsmenoi dia pistewV: kai touto ouk ex umwn, qeou to dwron:"

Three words in this text we need to look at:

cariti-chariti, "grace, graciously bestowed divine endowment or influence"

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Hendriclson Pub., Peabody, Mass., 01962, cariti, p. 436-7.

In the context of Eph. 2:5, we are told that God's grace is specifically a "free favor, free gift, grace. Jn. 1:14, 16-17; Rom. 4:4, 16; 11:5-6; Eph. 2:5, 8; 1 Pet. 3:7" (ibid)

Hold on a second.... Please. I can understand where you are coming from.

Grace enables us to be what God desires.

The gifts we receive are enabled by grace.

But!

Romans 11:29 (New American Standard Bible)
"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
​

If God gives a gift? .... It will not be taken back. Salvation is a gift. What ever spiritual gift(s) we receive at salvation he will not take back.

But? Grace is conditional.

1 Peter 5:5-6 (New International Version)
"Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time."
​

If a believer becomes proud? Grace is withdrawn! If he remains humble? Grace is given.

Not every believer receives grace after he is saved by grace. If he becomes proud and legalistic, grace is denied him. His gift to teach will remain. But, his teaching will be devoid of grace needed for the gift's proper execution.

The gifts of God are not to be withdrawn (irrevocable).... His calling (salvation) will never be withdrawn. But, grace! Like our Eternal rewards? Can be lost!

Galatians 5:4 (New International Version)
"You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
​

One can not fall from his gift. But one can fall from God's grace which would enable the proper manifestation of the gift.

Salvation is the gift. We can not lose what we have been given in Christ. Its a gift. Its irrevocable. But, grace is something we can lose. Its conditional.

Become proud? Grace is denied.

Become proud? The gift yet remains.

Be humble? The gift develops and functions according to God's will.

Remain humble? Grace keeps on being given, and in greater amounts.

James 4:6 (New American Standard Bible)
"But He gives a greater grace Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
​

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[DeaconDean]

Hold on a second.... Please. I can understand where you are coming from.

Grace enables us to be what God desires.

The gifts we receive are enabled by grace.

But!

Romans 11:29 (New American Standard Bible)​

"for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."​

​

If God gives a gift? .... It will not be taken back. Salvation is a gift. What ever spiritual gift(s) we receive at salvation he will not take back.

But? Grace is conditional.

1 Peter 5:5-6 (New International Version)​

"Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, ​

"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time." ​

​

If a believer becomes proud? Grace is withdrawn! If he remains humble? Grace is given.

Not every believer receives grace after he is saved by grace. If he becomes proud and legalistic, grace is denied him. His gift to teach will remain. But, his teaching will be devoid of grace needed for the gift's proper execution.

The gifts of God are not to be withdrawn (irrevocable).... His calling (salvation) will never be withdrawn. But, grace! Like our Eternal rewards? Can be lost!

Galatians 5:4 (New International Version)​

"You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." ​

​

One can not fall from his gift. But one can fall from God's grace which would enable the proper manifestation of the gift.

Salvation is the gift. We can not lose what we have been given in Christ. Its a gift. Its irrevocable. But, grace is something we can lose. Its conditional.

Become proud? Grace is denied.

Become proud? The gift yet remains.

Be humble? The gift develops and functions according to God's will.

Remain humble? Grace keeps on being given, and in greater amounts.

James 4:6 (New American Standard Bible)​

"But He gives a greater grace Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE." ​

​

Grace and peace, GeneZ

I was not talking to you.

I was adressing the fact that one person said "grace" was not a gift, thank you very much.

And everything you posted agrees with what I posted. Grace is a gift of God. Period.

Then I guess this song we sing, is nothing but a bunch of bull:

"Amazing Grace"

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.

When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

John Newton, 1779

I guess God's grace isn't so amazing after all.

Yea, right.

“Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what He hath done for my soul.” Psalm 66:16

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Ormly]

Now here is where you are dead wrong!

According to the Greek, Eph. 2:8 reads:

"th gar cariti este seswsmenoi dia pistewV: kai touto ouk ex umwn, qeou to dwron:"

Three words in this text we need to look at:

cariti-chariti, "grace, graciously bestowed divine endowment or influence"

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, Hendriclson Pub., Peabody, Mass., 01962, cariti, p. 436-7.

In the context of Eph. 2:5, we are told that God's grace is specifically a "free favor, free gift, grace. Jn. 1:14, 16-17; Rom. 4:4, 16; 11:5-6; Eph. 2:5, 8; 1 Pet. 3:7" (ibid)

pistewV- pisteos, "faith, belief, firm persuasion, 2Cor. 5:7; Heb. 11:1; assurance, firm conviction, Rom. 14:23; groung of belief. guarantee, assurance, Acts 17:31; good faith, honesty, integrity, Mt. 23:23; Gal. 5:22; Titus 2:10; faithfulness, truthfulness, Rom. 3:3; in the NT faith in God and Christ, Mt. 8:10; Acts 3:16, et. al. freq.;"(ibid, p.329)

swzw-sozo, "to be brought within the pale of saving privilege, Acts 2:47; Eph. 2:5, 8 (or, according to others, to be actually saved) (Ibid, p. 399)

Now, there are a few things about Eph. 2:8 that make this verse distinctive.


cariti (grace) as it is used here by Paul, is in the accusative, which makes grace a direct object of something.

pistewV (faith) is in the genitive case, which means that it shows possession.

swzw (saved) is nominative, plural, masc., perf. passive part. Which means "you" being saved, completely, perfectly, and that "you" played no part in it because it is passive. It came as a result of something.

qeoV-(God) is the only word in the Greek context that has the possession of all three of these.

To make it as plain as I can, you are saved (seswmenoi, nominative, plural, masc., perfect passive participle) by faith (pistewV, genitive, singular, feminine, noun). Faith being genitive, possesses salvation. However, we have not addressed grace. caritoV, being genitive, shows possession of something. Grace is the possessor. grace possesses faith, and through faith, you are saved.

But what ultimately possesses caritoV? The only answer in the whole text points straight to God (qeou).

qeou (God) is the one who possesses "grace." For it is from God's grace that everything flows.

Your not born under God's grace. It is not due to you.

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; " -Rom. 4:4, 16 (KJV)

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." -Rom. 11:5-6 (KJV)

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved...For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" -Eph. 2:5,8 (KJV)

"...being heirs together of the grace of life;" -1 Pet. 3:7 (KJV)

"And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." -Acts 4:33 (KJV)

"Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord." -Acts 11:33 (KJV)

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;" -Rom. 12:6 (KJV)

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." -2 Cor. 12:9 (KJV)

It is a gift from God. And your wrong, plain and simple.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Ok. Now, if you will, in your above reply, everytime the word 'grace' is mentioned, substitute in these words: ''the overflowing of the Nature of God' or as it may want to read: 'the overflowing of Myself; My Nature'.

 

[GenemZ]

I was not talking to you.

I was adressing the fact that one person said "grace" was not a gift, thank you very much.

And everything you posted agrees with what I posted. Grace is a gift of God. Period.

Huh?

Everything you posted reveals that grace exists.

You conveniently did not read what I showed you.

Grace is conditional. Gifts are not. What is conditional is not a gift.

Then I guess this song we sing, is nothing but a bunch of bull:

"Amazing Grace"

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound

It's not a lot of bull. God gives the grace to believe in Christ. That does not mean its a gift. Anymore than the anesthesia given before surgery is a gift.

But, go back and read what I showed you. Grace is conditional. The gifts God gives are not conditional.

One of the characteristics of humility is "correctability." Willing to be shown where one is wrong.

God only gives grace to the humble.

Not all believers remain in a humble state after the initial grace was given to save them. Salvation is the gift. We can not lose that.





In Christ, GeneZ