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Armegeddon/Gog-Magog same event?

Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

  • I view them as the same event

  • I view them as different events

  • I am not sure

  • Does it really matter?


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Danoh

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Yeah, okay, "piper," I knew you'd respond from bias over any kind of objectivity.

The only way to see Mid-Acts is either through an actual, neither for, nor against, objecttivity, Acts 17:11, or through the luck of the draw that the school of "what makes sense to me," sometimes gets right, John 20:28.

As you just proved as to what jibed with how you make sense of things, at the same time that most of that video's content obviously did not.

Where you and I disagree is where bias over neither for, nor against, overrule at the expense of the obvious.

Put like you say, you don't know what in the world I am talking about.
 
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Interplanner

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Danoh, really,
what position is inherent in Acts 17:11? All it says is that they continued to study, and I may actually have more years in on it than they did, if that was the criterion (I doubt it).

Using its own context, 1, Paul proclaimed that this Jesus was the Christ (v3). The one that came. Not one that was going to come and champion Judaism.

2, The Christians were thought of as proclaiming that there was another king Jesus (v7). They did this by proclaiming that his reign was now here. God had raised him to his throne and all other powers that be needed to take note and submit. This creates trouble all over the world (notice again that world is local).

Please confine your remarks to one text at a time, so we can have an understanding start to build up. You are all generalizations, and as I have just shown, you don't have any basis for what you are so sure of in 17:11.
 
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Midst

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I do strive for objectivity.


I view the search for truth like the search for objectivity... and like the search for being right, righteousness - on target - and the search for humility. All very daunting and the road ahead is often invisible, so is it dark.
 
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shturt678s

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No sarcasm this time, ie, would you or not add "correctable" and/or "refutable" to the former? BTW most in today's time wouldn't. Decades ago, many did and would.

Curious Jack
 
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Danoh

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I stand corrected by all those years of learning of yours, Inter, you're right; Acts 17:11's "received the word WITH ALL READINESS OF MIND," is NOT about objectivity.

Yeah, okay. And you would profess your "wisdom" is Bible based...

Yeah, okay...
 
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shturt678s

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I stand corrected by all those years of learning of yours, Inter, you're right; Acts 17:11's "received the word WITH ALL READINESS OF MIND," is NOT about objectivity.

Yeah, okay. And you would profess your "wisdom" is Bible based...

Yeah, okay...

Would "objective" + "subjective" = Bible based?

The contents of Acts17:11 is without a doubt objective from a bottom rung of the latter opinion. Subjectivity comes in somewhere for example "faith" is subjective?

All these ambiguities?

Old Jack's opinion
 
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shturt678s

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Free Alaska Ice Cream Bars for everyone afterwards...

Only a head's up, the contents of the precious Word are absolutely objective, however where the problem is it's "subjectively" appropriated. Ergo Armagedden/Gog-Magog = same event just before the forthcoming "1" Parousia (Lord's "1" future Return - Rev.20:9-10) where He didn't Return in 70 A.D.

Old Jack still at the bottom rung of the ladder's opinion

BTW left the gossip entertainment industry (better economics than even the Churches' economics of today) when Jesus found me...thank you Jesus!
 
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Midst

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No sarcasm this time, ie, would you or not add "correctable" and/or "refutable" to the former? BTW most in today's time wouldn't. Decades ago, many did and would.

Curious Jack


You have not responded to any of my posts on this thread, not above this one, anyway.

I am not sure what you are saying about this post, but it was a very brief comment.

If you wish to respond to one of my posts above, please do so.



I do believe what lillamb is considering is definitely viable, and gave several very good reasons for why this is.

I do not - looking at the threaded version - see any direct posts against these things.
 
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Douggg

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I don't think you have read Ezekiel 39:17-20 and realized that is the second feast by the birds and beasts on the carion in the chapter - to understand that Ezekiel 39:4 is the feast on Gog's army, then 7 years later, the time of burning the war implements, that Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast.

And Ezekiel 39:21 is Jesus speaking as he has returned and just executed judgment on the heathen, in Revelation 19, and is here on earth, his glory among the heathen (the nations).

Ezekiel 39:28, the gathering of all the children of Israel from the nations corresponds to Matthew 24:31
In Ezekiel 39:21, Jesus has returned and has set his glory among the heathen the nations.
Gog/Magog will take place just prior to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27. Gog's army will be destroyed and feasted upon in Ezekiel 39:4.

The little horn will arrive in Israel right after Gog's destruction, and the Jews will think he is their messiah, because he will have intentioned to stop Gog/Magog, although it appears neither he himself nor his army actually participate in the destruction of Gog's army. He confirms the covenant for 7 years, Daniel 9:27.

At the end of those 7 years, in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast.

And the rest of Ezekiel 39, verses 21-29, is from the perspective of Jesus's having returned.
 
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shturt678s

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You have not responded to any of my posts on this thread, not above this one, anyway.

I am not sure what you are saying about this post, but it was a very brief comment.

If you wish to respond to one of my posts above, please do so.

I responded in post #124 my brother.

I do believe what lillamb is considering is definitely viable, and gave several very good reasons for why this is.

I do not - looking at the threaded version - see any direct posts against these things.

Lamb is probably correct as I'm pretty much at the bottom of the heap, however thank you anyway.

Old Jack's opinion
 
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Midst

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I responded in post #124 my brother.



Lamb is probably correct as I'm pretty much at the bottom of the heap, however thank you anyway.

Old Jack's opinion


I do not see where posts are numbered in such a way. I do see you can make and paste a permalink to any response. I looked at your responses below mine, and they are to other posters.

You may mean you responded to lillamb's response.

I have no idea if lillamb is correct or not. It does have some validity, as I argued.
 
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shturt678s

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I'm at the last and least of the pecking order, never have and not capable of high tech. pasting and etc....wish I could....barely can post giving an opinion.

I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Old Jack's opinion
 
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B

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Douggg said in post 131:

Gog/Magog will take place just prior to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

Note that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That Is why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least 2 major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

Douggg said in post 131:

The little horn will arrive in Israel right after Gog's destruction, and the Jews will think he is their messiah . . .

Regarding the little horn, also called the Antichrist, note that "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
 
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Douggg

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Bible2, start over. There are not 7 years following Satan's last uprising in Revelation 20 at the end of the millenium. Gog/Magog takes place right before the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

The Antichrist denies that Jesus is "the christ" or the rightful King of Israel, Son of David. Christ is not Jesus's name.

The person who is the little horn does not become "the Anti 'christ'" until he is anointed the King of Israel. The person stops being "the Anti 'christ' ", when the Jews reject him as continuing to be their King when he reveals himself as the man of sin.

The man of sin becomes the beast. As the beast, he does the horrendous acts as the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire - not in his temporary role as "the Anti 'christ'" illicit King of Israel.

Start over.
 
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Midst

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I have written, above a number of reasons why "this may be so", but now have realized a strong reason why it "may not be so". Either way, I do not know.

One problem with this theory is that there is an indicator that there is a timeline, that one events follows the other:

The beheadings which happen in the first event. In the second event, these are remarked apon indirectly by the statement that those beheaded are risen again.


This indicates a "this happens", "then that happens" timeline between the two events.


Not conclusive, but strongly.
 
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BABerean2

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For those of us who think the Gog/Magog event may be the same as the Armageddon event, maybe we should look at the question in the thread a different way.

Maybe it would make more sense if the term "Gog/Magog" is just a description of those involved and Armageddon is the place where it occurs, which we know is what is implied by the text on both accounts.

Another difficulty is where we draw the line between symbols in the book of Revelation and literal events and places. Obviously, there must be a place for both. One could be guilty of going to the extreme on either end of the scale.

Just thinking out loud ...



Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy
 
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shturt678s

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We're no doubt on the very precipice of Satan being personally loosed giving us another glimpse of the last battle leaving "Hebrew HarMagedon" out of the equation for now.

Note that Rev. chap. 12 Satan is known as the "dragon." As such he instigates all antichristianity, yet from chapter 13 on he is not pictured again. My point which isn't mine at all, ie, much older inconvenient and uncomfortable ELCA Lutheran works summarized:

Rev.13:1-3 state the reason, his Satan's personal bind (Rev.20:2 or so). But what he has instigated operates throughout the entire N.T. era operates as the beast (Rev.13:1-10), the antichristian power, which in turn opoerates through the second beast (Rev.13:11-18) called also the pseudo-prophet, the antichristian propaganda of all antichristian deceit, all of which produces "Babylon," viewed as a great city and as an empire with many kings and thus also also as the great harlot with all her paramours, "the kings of the earth," the harlot symbolizing the antichristian seduction which helps to carrry men away.


Then the end of all this antichristianity must come. The instigator of it must be loosed in order to precipitate the end which isn't far off.

Kind of weird where decades ago the former older Lutheran works were not viewed as so insane and fallacious as currently are during this past decade especially in this past year....

Most likely will cover another appearing fallacious and insane view of the "Hebrew HarMagedon soon.

Old Jack getting so old now more difficult to think for myself aloud anymore.
 
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