Arkansas House Votes to Allow Teaching of Creationism in Science Classes

[AV1611VET]

While I have made a joke or two in this thread on a more serious note if this germ of an idea takes off and goes national in your country the beneficiaries will be your enemies China and Russia.

A form of education which decides to put the conclusion first and work backwards is the antithesis to the development of critical thinking skills.
The technological advantage your country has over your opponents is through scientists and engineers who are products of critical thinking education.

The danger is the creation of a generation lacking in critical thinking skills and with it the evaporation of any technological advantage the US has over its opponents.

Wow -- the paranoia in this thread is thick.

 

[SelfSim]

Wow -- the paranoia in this thread is thick.

So you respond to @sjastro's post by stating your preconceived conclusion first .. (and will no doubt, proceed in working backwards from that ..).

 

[renniks]

Still is, nothing to do with teaching biblical creationism. Being it's Arkansas, I seriously doubt that the class will be an even-handed survey of world creation stories--more likely indoctrination in Evangelical doctrine.

We can hope!

 

[renniks]

Yeah, that would be as much of a mistake as teaching them that science is a lie and the world is only 6000 years old.

The smart chimp thing has had it's day. Let's get some hope back into the world!

 

[SelfSim]

We can hope!

.. and will likely succeed in seriously retarding the opportunities for children looking to extend their education and future employment opportunities ..

 

[renniks]

The danger is the creation of a generation lacking in critical thinking skills and with it the evaporation of any technological advantage the US has over its opponents

Oh good grief! That's ridiculous on so many levels.

 

[HARK!]

The Oparin-Haldane theory

Something they should have learned in science class is that to formally be considered a theory, a proposition has to have reasonable amount of confirming evidence.

In the 1920s British scientist J.B.S. Haldane and Russian biochemist Aleksandr Oparin independently set forth similar ideas concerning the conditions required for the origin of life on Earth. Both believed that organic molecules could be formed from abiogenic materials in the presence of an external energy source (e.g., ultraviolet radiation) and that the primitive atmosphere was reducing (having very low amounts of free oxygen) and contained ammonia and water vapour, among other gases. Both also suspected that the first life-forms appeared in the warm, primitive ocean and were heterotrophic (obtaining preformed nutrients from the compounds in existence on early Earth) rather than autotrophic (generating food and nutrients from sunlight or inorganic materials).

abiogenesis | Definition & Theory

"Confirming evidence" please!

 

[renniks]

.. and will likely succeed in seriously retarding the opportunities for children looking to extend their education and future employment opportunities ..

After evolution is deserted as a bad theory, they will be the bright new generation.

 

[SelfSim]

The smart chimp thing has had it's day. Let's get some hope back into the world!

.. (that's coming from a 'smart' chimp).

 

[SelfSim]

"Confirming evidence" please!

Word games! Change the word to 'verfiying' (preserving the same meaning) and your game falls apart into rubble.

 

[HARK!]

.. and will likely succeed in seriously retarding the opportunities for children looking to extend their education and future employment opportunities ..

How does dismissing abiogenesis limit employment opportunities?

 

[dlamberth]

Since most cultures have creation stories, I think you are just grasping. And you can learn about all kinds of religions in college, so why not start in high school, and understand that the predominant view of the world down through history has always included a creator. I daresay the view that there isn't one is very much a minority view in the history of the world.

A Creator, yes. The Christian image of Creator in terms of human history, that's pretty recent and fairly localized. Personally I'd like to see Sky Women taught with Turtle Island in public education. That particular Creation story might give a more sacred feeling of the earth to our children.

 

[HARK!]

Word games! Change the word to 'verfiying' (mean the same thing) and your game falls apart into rubble.

I don't resort to strawman fallacies; but thank you anyway.

I'm not playing a game. I'm asking for proof of the assertion.

 

[SelfSim]

How does dismissing abiogenesis limit employment opportunities?

Its a widely recognised objectively testable hypothesis amongst a plethora of mere opinions and beliefs .. Ever worked in a successful business that operates on purely personal beliefs?
.. Oh hang on .. we had an entire world that operated that way thousands of years ago .. (with millions persecuted and murdered when their beliefs weren't the preferred belief!)

 

[renniks]

.. (that's coming from a 'smart' chimp).

That's coming from a person made in God's image.

 

[Sparagmos]

They would have to teach all of them.
The Hindu, Norse, Kemetic, Babylonian/Akkadan, Aztec, Inca, Mayan, East Celtic, Swahili, Kymer, Greek, Proto-Indo-European, etc etc etc...

Now I’m kind of into it!

 

[keith99]

Word games! Change the word to 'verfiying' (preserving the same meaning) and your game falls apart into rubble.

Actually the correct word is testing. What science does is to try to figure out a test that will have one result is a theory is correct and a different result if it is not. The scientist wins either way. Oh perhaps a bigger if the result goes the way they expected. But a win either way.

The person seeking to confirm their religious beliefs is in an entirely different situation. If the result of the test conflicts with their position it is a disaster for them.

 

[SelfSim]

I don't resort to strawman fallacies; but thank you anyway.

I'm not playing a game. I'm asking for proof of the assertion.

You're asking for 'confirming evidence' (or a logical 'proof') for what is now regarded as being a scientific hypothesis (Abiogenesis)? The term 'theory', as in the 'Oparin-Haldane theory' is over a hundred years old and its meaning has changed.

Objective theories are backed up by repetitive testing and thus verifying, (or otherwise), evidence/test results. Hypotheses however, are tentative notions, some of which have not yet been tested. This latter meaning has evolved since the Oparin-Haldane days.

Your query presumes an unstated (and objectively) erroneos assumption of unfixed, unchanged meanings for words .. and when it comes to scientific operational terms, they are all subject to change with new evidence.

The Oparin-Haldane idea turned out to be an hypothesis .. and its core idea nowadays has its basis rooted in many empirically evidenced (objective) data and chemical evolution theory .. (all of which was originally missing in their day).

 

[HARK!]

Its a widely recognised objectively testable hypothesis

I'm waiting to see a successful test. So far no one has been able to reproduce those reults

Ever worked in a successful business that operates on purely personal beliefs?

Our entire perception of reality operates purely on personal belief. The mental institutions are full of living examples of those with personal beliefs outside of what most others consider reality.

Do you "believe" that your understanding of reality somehow transcends your own perception?

.. Oh hang on .. we had an entire world that operated that way thousands of years ago .. (with millions persecuted and murdered when their beliefs weren't the preferred belief!)

Marxism is nowhere near thousands of years old.

 

[Speedwell]

We can hope!

The bill does not mandate the teaching of creationism but allows it as an option. What will probably happen is what already happening in a few public schools around the Bible Belt: creationism will be taught where there are not enough kids of a different religion for their parents to make a fuss about it.