Arguments/hypotheticals against Christianity

[TheOldWays]

I suspect that it's more likely that views of God changed, not that God actually changed. From a Christian perspective this is generally understood as progressive revelation, which has its fullness in Jesus, God Himself made man.

-CryptoLutheran

quite possible indeed!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

quite possible indeed!

Nah!!! If I dole out bird seed to birds one handful at a time in a successive manner, this is changing "my position," it's just doling out bird seed to birds one handful at a time...

 

[dlamberth]

Nah!!! If I dole out bird seed to birds one handful at a time in a successive manner, this is changing "my position," it's just doling out bird seed to birds one handful at a time...

It depends upon ones perspective. If your a bird chowing down on the bird seed that keeps appearing, all you know is that when ever you come back for more, there is always bird seed sitting there available for you. You experience no change of position at all.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It depends upon ones perspective. If your a bird chowing down on the bird seed that keeps appearing, all you know is that when ever you come back for more, there is always bird seed sitting there available for you. You experience no change of position at all.

Really. I would think that as a bird, you'd still notice that you're stomach is getting progressively fuller, which is a "change" in relation to what is felt is needed. Eventually, as a bird, you'll feel you have enough in your stomach to go do other things and take flight.

In the same way, with the advent of Christ, we Christians can definitely feel that we have more information revealed to us than did the early Israelites at the time of Moses, or even than did Abraham's generations before that.

So, give me that Good ol' time, Bird-Seed!

 

[Robban]

Really. I would think that as a bird, you'd still notice that you're stomach is getting progressively fuller, which is a "change" in relation to what is felt is needed. Eventually, as a bird, you'll feel you have enough in your stomach to go do other things and take flight.

In the same way, with the advent of Christ, we Christians can definitely feel that we have more information revealed to us than did the early Israelites at the time of Moses, or even than did Abraham's generations before that.

So, give me that Good ol' time, Bird-Seed!

"Moses, we want to go back to Egypt,
we are tired of this manna,
we long for the stews we had back then."

 

[Berl]

Traditional christian teaching is it's achilles heel, the religious rulers during the story of the christian version of Christ were accused of preventing entrance to the kingdom because they didn't know the kingdom of God is in man, those that taught that ancient truth were persecuted and murdered by the christian rulers, establishing a myriad of doctrines teaching an outward based christ with a second coming when he never left, 2Cor 3:6 also reveals the killers of the spiritual testament are the literal letter teachers then and now, thats your biggest foe not atheist etc....

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"Moses, we want to go back to Egypt,
we are tired of this manna,
we long for the stews we had back then."

Yeah, and we all know what happened to that unbelieving generation ... which just goes to show you that just because a bird has wings doesn't mean it can fly.

 

[Robban]

Yeah, and we all know what happened to that unbelieving generation ... which just goes to show you that just because a bird has wings doesn't mean it can fly.

It is usual when everything is going smoothly one forgets the need one was in
at the time of that need.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is usual when everything is going smoothly one forgets the need one was in
at the time of that need.

This is true.

...but, in the case of the unfaithful generation, the Bible says that they were wandering around in the desert for 40 years, and it was their own fault. (And if they had been faithful, they wouldn't have to of had to be out there for 40 years, remember?)

 

[Robban]

This is true.

...but, in the case of the unfaithful generation, the Bible says that they were wandering around in the desert for 40 years, and it was their own fault. (And if they had been faithful, they wouldn't have to of had to be out there for 40 years, remember?)

Possibly a picture of life in general.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Possibly a picture of life in general.

Yes, in a sense, it is. We're all sinners before God, and we all mess up. But then again, from a Christian viewpoint, that 40 year episode contrasts with the following generation of Israelites who, in following Joshua, actually did get to go into the Promised Land.

 

[Robban]

Yes, in a sense, it is. We're all sinners before God, and we all mess up. But then again, from a Christian viewpoint, that 40 year episode contrasts with the following generation of Israelites who, in following Joshua, actually did get to go into the Promised Land.

When the 12 spies came back, only two had positive reports,
Joshua and Kaleb,if I remember correct.

Why?

The days of home delivery were over,
now they would have to roll up their sleeves and do something,

The ten who came with scary reports, we were as grasshoppers in their eyes,
gained supporters among those had been spoilt and did not want to work.

Off the top of my head, will say.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

When the 12 spies came back, only two had positive reports,
Joshua and Kaleb,if I remember correct.

Why?

The days of home delivery were over,
now they would have to roll up their sleeves and do something,

The ten who came with scary reports, we were as grasshoppers in their eyes,
gained supporters among those had been spoilt and did not want to work.

Off the top of my head, will say.

Sure. This isn't to say that the generation who went in with Joshua were just all spiritually "Hunky-Dory" either. But, the meaning of all of this can be seen in two (or more ways), one of those being Typological in nature, which is what Paul the Apostle and the writer of the book of Hebrews in the New Testament alluded to.

 

[Robban]

Sure. This isn't to say that the generation who went in with Joshua were just all spiritually "Hunky-Dory" either. But, the meaning of all of this can be seen in two (or more ways), one of those being Typological in nature, which is what Paul the Apostle and the writer of the book of Hebrews in the New Testament alluded to.

What do they say?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What do they say?

They say that "...all these things happened to them as examples and they were written for our instruction" so we can learn not to sin and fail in the same way that they did through unbelief.

And if you want to read this for yourself more in depth, then you'll find this material in 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, and in Hebrews 3:1-19.

 

[Robban]

They say that "...all these things happened to them as examples and they were written for our instruction" so we can learn not to sin and fail in the same way that they did through unbelief.

And if you want to read this for yourself more in depth, then you'll find this material in 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, and in Hebrews 3:1-19.

Hebrews also tell of some shut the mouths of lions,
some were eaten by lions,
some recieved their dead back,
others were sawn in half.

Were the unlucky ones not faithful?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hebrews also tell of some shut the mouths of lions,
some were eaten by lions,
some recieved their dead back,
others were sawn in half.

Were the unlucky ones not faithful?

No, some of them were martyrs for the faith. But the passage to which you refer is an antithesis of what was spoken about earlier in Hebrews: so instead of failing in faith, we have examples of those who persevered in the faith unto salvation [Hebrews chapter 11].

...I don't quite think that the later passage in Hebrews says "some were eaten by lions." I think you're adding in a reference to 2 Kings 17:25-26 which would properly belong back in that 'earlier' portion of the message provided in the book of Hebrews.

 

[Robban]

No, some of them were martyrs for the faith. But the passage to which you refer is an antithesis of what was spoken about earlier in Hebrews: so instead of failing in faith, we have examples of those who persevered in the faith unto salvation [Hebrews chapter 11].

...I don't quite think that the later passage in Hebrews says "some were eaten by lions." I think you're adding in a reference to 2 Kings 17:25-26 which would properly belong back in that 'earlier' portion of the message provided in the book of Hebrews.

Yeah, I thought too that I had said too much,
but some claim that Christians were fed to lions,
so it evens out.

Like the cyklist said, when he had done in his pants..

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Traditional christian teaching is it's achilles heel, the religious rulers during the story of the christian version of Christ were accused of preventing entrance to the kingdom because they didn't know the kingdom of God is in man, those that taught that ancient truth were persecuted and murdered by the christian rulers, establishing a myriad of doctrines teaching an outward based christ with a second coming when he never left, 2Cor 3:6 also reveals the killers of the spiritual testament are the literal letter teachers then and now, thats your biggest foe not atheist etc....

To be fair though by secound coming it means in his glory or way you can see him. Like for example he showed his true form or transfiguration or whatever to Moses and a few others. The general consensus is he will do that when he returns, now you understand that. Sure he’s here inside people no one disputes that... but Christians in general all agree we can’t see him In his fullness that’s the point . Aside from that I get your point though