Aren't we all physically ill?

[JimB]

One Pentecostal preacher I once heard said, "If I have a migraine, I will pray for healing. But until that healing comes, I'm taking my Tylenol."

God has provided healing for us in many ways. Sometimes it is miraculous but often (if not usually) it comes through what he has granted in the way of herbal treatments, medicines, medical science, surgery, therapy, etc.etc.etc. We love those spectacular miracle-healings because they provide a good weekend show, but, IMO, God often has something to teach us about empathy, compassion, trust or whatever through an illness. "Our light afflictions, which are but for a moment, really do work for us."

 

[Yitzchak]

What they preach in our church: if you don't stand in faith for your healing, you keep looking at the pain and if an aspirine gets the pain away and helps you get back in faith again, take one.

This makes sense. There is a principle outlined in Romans Chapter 14 which can be applied here.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[aWalkbyFaith]

None of us truly knows if our faith will hold when it is fully tested. We can say that we do , but things can happen in life that can take us past our breaking point. Just like Peter who said he would never deny the Lord , we should pray that our faith does not fail when tested.

Thanks for sharing. This is so very true. After I read this last night, I ended up in the book of Revelation.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


The passage in it's context refers to those that were faced with great tribulation and trials. It's talking about those that did not get the mark of the beast, and were beheaded and tortured for testimony of Christ. Then those words you shared came back to me. And I prayed, "Oh dear Lord, in the face of dark trials, please Father keep me. Don't let me rely on my own abilities, nor in the abilities of any person but You. It's only by grace. Please have mercy on us Lord."



It's a very deep topic. And it touches me deeply. Thanks again for sharing.



Bless you.

 

[aWalkbyFaith]

What they preach in our church: if you don't stand in faith for your healing, you keep looking at the pain and if an aspirine gets the pain away and helps you get back in faith again, take one.

 

[aWalkbyFaith]

IMO, God often has something to teach us about empathy, compassion, trust or whatever through an illness. "Our light afflictions, which are but for a moment, really do work for us."

I think about this often. I notice how getting older seems to humble us. My hair doesn't quite come out like it used to. And, I don't run as fast I used to. We become more aware of our true feeble state and it also seems we become more and more aware of our need for the Lord in all things. This helps us have compassion on others.

It's all working out for His glory. Blessed be the name of the Lord. He is so good.

 

[louise sheinholtz]

This makes no sense.

 

[aWalkbyFaith]

This makes no sense.

It's a thumbs up (approval).

I agree with the heart of what Messy said. If God met us in the darkness of our sins, why not in an aspirin?

 

[lismore]

Why do we make physical healing such a big deal?

1) Because it is a topic that impacts all of us and all those people we know

2) Sometimes in church circles there seem to be so many people requiring healing and yet so few actually acquiring it

IMO one key to 'wellness' is unity among believers.

 

[Soothfish]

All life is defective junk. It is surprising that we are able to find any relief whatsoever.

Most of our defectiveness doesn't take the form of obvious physical illness. Most of it is our daily stupidity, incompetence, and inability to help those in need. That is the result of our nearly useless brains and the weakness of the other organs. That goes for all of humanity, even those we would normally judge to be "healthy".

 

[Optimax]

One Pentecostal preacher I once heard said, "If I have a migraine, I will pray for healing. But until that healing comes, I'm taking my Tylenol."

It is easy to see that this prayer is not going to bring healing.

Best for him to take the Tylenol and not waste the time with the unbelieving prayer.

Why do I say that?

Because Jesus said this.

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. KJV

The Preacher is waiting until he is healed before he will believe it.

When did Jesus say that we have to believe it before we will have it?

 

[Tobias]

There is nothing Christian about going to the doctor and there is nothing non christian about going to the doctor , in and of itself. Just like there is nothing Christian about a farmer making use of the sun and rain by planting his crops and harvesting those same crops all by natural means. But ultimately that farmer must place his trust in the Lord for provision and there will be tests that come in all of our lives in these things. How we respond matters.

This is my opinion on the matter as well. God has blessed us with many things, and modern technology is just one of them. This would include the advances of medical science too.

God doesn't get mad at us when we "Seek the hand of Man" in many other areas in life. Like turning to Man's systems and going to work for an employer for money to buy food and clothing. God has promised to provide for our needs, yet His method of doing so seems to be natural more often than supernatural.

We have no statistics from the New Testament on how many of the people Jesus healed that were previously seen by doctors. It mentions that some were (lady with the issue of blood, for instance), but apparently they still weren't getting better so they went to see Jesus. What we don't know, is if anybody chose to go to Jesus to save money on medical bills, if they stopped their medication before or after He pronounced them whole, or if anyone lost their chance at healing because they chose to stick with their doctor's recommendation instead.


I think that the scriptures are unclear on the extent that we are meant to rely upon miraculous healing. And that when they are unclear, taking our eyes out of the Bible and actually looking at life is the best solution to find the answers! God is real and alive today, and still heals the sick. So we can see that He only heals miraculously sometimes; and that many times Christians are blessed with healing at the hands of the doctors.

Obviously if God tells you not to go to a doctor then don't go. If your faith is weak, and you can't believe that God can heal through medical treatments, then it's better to stay sick than go. Or suffer the headache rather than taking the pain killer. Many people are hurt worse, or become addicted to drugs through Man's attempts at healing. They are far from perfect!

But God gives wisdom. Hopefully we can tell the difference between when it's ok to gamble with your life and not see a doctor, and when it's time to start trusting God that the medical professionals really do have your best interest in mind.

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

Nah, we are not all physically ill.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I know, I know (we have been here before ), but regardless of the correct interpretation of “grief” and “sorrow” in Isaiah 53.4, the “stripes” in vs. 5 were not for physical illness and healing, at least not according to Simon Peter, who IMO is a much more qualified interpreter of Isaiah than any televangelist.

As for the reference in Matt. 8, all this says is that Christ’s miraculous healings and deliverance from demons was biblical proof of his Messiahship. The phrase “as it was written/spoken” appears no less than ten times in Matthew because it was his task to prove to Jewish hearers/readers that Jesus was Messiah “according” to Scripture, IOW that Jesus fulfilled Messianic prophecy.

Here’s the passage:

"When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities And bore our sicknesses.” (Matt. 8.16-17)
​

Thus proving he was a fulfillment of Messianic scripture.

I guess we read into the text what we want to be there.

So I guess the message clicked a decade or two after they saw it

 

[MikeBigg]

We have no statistics from the New Testament on how many of the people Jesus healed that were previously seen by doctors. It mentions that some were (lady with the issue of blood, for instance), but apparently they still weren't getting better so they went to see Jesus.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but wanted to add another angle as food for thought - there is no record in the Bible of Jesus saying to someone: "I'm not going to heal you, you'd be better off going to the doctor."

Regards,

Mike

 

[Tobias]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but wanted to add another angle as food for thought - there is no record in the Bible of Jesus saying to someone: "I'm not going to heal you, you'd be better off going to the doctor."

Regards,

Mike

There are also no instances of Jesus telling someone: "Because you went to the doctor first, I won't be healing you."



How many did He pray for, but the manifestation didn't come immediately? So they were left wondering if it was wrong or a lack of faith if they went to a doctor because Jesus didn't heal them -- yet?

Surly there has to be a time limit on how long we are expected to wait to see if God has healed us or not. And there should be no shame in seeking medical attention when there is no indication that a miracle is about to take place.

 

[whatfor]

Plus, healing is a self-centered thing—what God can do for me. It has little to do with what I can do for God. Someone once asked me, “If God never did another thing for you, would you still serve him?” That is ludicrous, of course, since every breath I take is a gift from God, but I knew what he meant. Would I serve God if there were no perks—no answers to prayer, no healing, no heaven? Would I serve him for just his sake alone? How much am I a believer for his sake or for my own? Am I a Christian for what I can get out of it or for what I can give? Made me think? Still does?

Would you want healing , miracles , heaven , prayers answered, your new body , but without Jesus?
I think too many of us live for ourselves, we were created for Him , not ourselves, we are meant to give up our lives for Him , I do not see much of that.

 

[probinson]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but wanted to add another angle as food for thought - there is no record in the Bible of Jesus saying to someone: "I'm not going to heal you, you'd be better off going to the doctor."

Also, there is no record in the Bible of Jesus saying to someone, "You know, asking for healing is really self-centered. I think you should remain sick so you can learn something greater."

It's like some people think that God can either heal you OR develop your character. I'm reminded of the car commercial, where they say "AND" is better. Perhaps God is big enough to heal us AND develop our character.

 

[vitaminC]

Also, there is no record in the Bible of Jesus saying to someone, "You know, asking for healing is really self-centered. I think you should remain sick so you can learn something greater."

It's like some people think that God can either heal you OR develop your character. I'm reminded of the car commercial, where they say "AND" is better. Perhaps God is big enough to heal us AND develop our character.

I have had that kind of thinking applied to me by my earthly father. The whole tough love thing. It did seem to work. But I think the only way that it works is if there has been enough help given in time of need that it is the exception and not the rule for my father not to help me when I need help. Also there is a point where it goes too far and become cruelty and abuse.

I can deal with this kind of thinking for a headache or a little bit of temporary and harmless pain , but for the more serious illness , it is a tough pill to swallow to suggest that God is the one who wants it to happen to me.

 

[aWalkbyFaith]

Here are a couple scriptures for my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord. The prayer laid heavy on my heart today is that we will be united and that we will be steadfast in Christ. To Him belongs all glory forever and ever. Amen.

James 1:12-18
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. 18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. "

Jude 1:20-25
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

25 To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Amen."

 

[Yitzchak]

Thanks for sharing. This is so very true. After I read this last night, I ended up in the book of Revelation.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


The passage in it's context refers to those that were faced with great tribulation and trials. It's talking about those that did not get the mark of the beast, and were beheaded and tortured for testimony of Christ. Then those words you shared came back to me. And I prayed, "Oh dear Lord, in the face of dark trials, please Father keep me. Don't let me rely on my own abilities, nor in the abilities of any person but You. It's only by grace. Please have mercy on us Lord."



It's a very deep topic. And it touches me deeply. Thanks again for sharing.



Bless you.

You're welcome. I also thought of trials beyond just enduring illness after praying and not seeing the healing happen. Persecution , financial setbacks , relationship back stabs , especially from others in the church , various temptations to sin, etc. There are lots of things which can cause us to stumble. One of my favorite verses is this one...

Pro 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, but the wicked stumble under adversity.