Aren't we all physically ill?

[JimB]

Yes, and that was brought upon mankind by... sin!

If Adam had not sinned, man would have never known sickness and disease.

In the end when God moves Heaven to earth... man will never know sickness and disease again.

When Jesus paid for our sin on the Cross... it covered everything that sin brought upon mankind including sickness and disease.

A major key for not getting sick, along with getting plenty of nourishment, stop eating bad food, getting plenty of rest and exercise, along with continued praise-n-worship unto the Lord for God's promises concerning healing!

But it didn't take the cross or "stripes" or the Atonement or anything else for God to heal the sick. He was already healing the sick all through the OT. Check your Bible.

 

[Frogster]

But it didn't take the cross or "stripes" or the Atonement or anything else for God to heal the sick. He was already healing the sick all through the OT. Check your Bible.

exaaaactly, matt 8!

So were the disciples as you know, and there were healings in the OT, pre atonement.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You didn't address either point, other than through this mocking. But if that is the approach that works for you, then so be it.

I didn't address either because they are no sence and not scriptural.

Sounds like something out of the Chuck Smith camp.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I am surprised at such a lack of understanding of the redemptive work of Christ as a replacement for the atonement through the sacrifice of animals. Still if some want to live in OT times perhaps they might still get healed at the expense of an animal or two

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"When you think about it, we are all “sick” to one extent or another."

Absolutely, and as we get older, the ratio between "Sickness" and "Relative health" shrinks.

When Dad died at 86 (after completing his "Meals on Wheels" deliveries for the day), the medical report said that it was a "Myocardial infarction exacerbated by hyperlipidemia".

And here we ignorantly thought he'd died of "old Age" - imagine that.

I'm dying of Coronary artery disease, 1/3 of my heart (the back 1/3) is simply DEAD, I've had two Bypass procedures, 16 stents and 13 heart attacks since 1992. Oh - And I'm shooting Insulin every day also for the diabetes, I wear hearing aids because my hearing is degenerating, I wear glasses (since I was 12), and cataracts are beginning to form. and I take a barrel of medications every day - to keep going.

BUT, I'm still fully functional as a 71 year old geezer, still working full time, and making music on the weekends with the band. So am I "Sick" - ABSOLUTELY!!!

But sick in the same way as somebody with end-stage kidney failure or metastasized renal cancer - not really - at least in a "Time Scale" way.

But if somebody asks: "can we pray for your healing?" I'd say yes. But since I HAVE NO FAITH for personal healing - I don't expect anything.

But hey!!! - they gave me 12 years - back in '92, so the joke's on THEM.

 

[JimB]

I am surprised at such a lack of understanding of the redemptive work of Christ ...

Man, you got that right. Me too, Taz.

 

[Tenebrae]

When you think about it, we are all “sick” to one extent or another. None of us are what we used to be. Even the “healthiest” among us carry germs, bacteria, viruses in our bodies;

From a purely health perspective, all human beings are covered in microbes, it would be abnormal not to have a colonisation of bacteria on our skin or in our gut. The bacteria in our gut produce vitamin K which is essential aspect in clotting

IMO, aging is the one inevitable (and incurable) physical ailment that affects us all.

Aging is an illness? I dont think so. Its a natural physiological part of the human lifespan.

Some peoples process aging better than others, however aging on its own is not an illness

 

[TasManOfGod]

Man

You got that right Jim

 

[Gospel Guy]

But it didn't take the cross or "stripes" or the Atonement or anything else for God to heal the sick. He was already healing the sick all through the OT. Check your Bible.

Yes, I understand that under the OT God did have a procedure to follow to get well... but, the Bible says that by the stripes of Jesus NT believers are healed.

So, you're going to have to explain to the Father that He has made an error and He needs to pay attention to what you are trying to point out.

Lemme know how that works out for ya

Here's a hint... God knows what He's doing and He knows what He's talking about, so it's always in our best interest to take Him at His Word

Sounds like something out of the Chuck Smith camp.

Doesn't he play center field for the Cubs?

I am surprised at such a lack of understanding of the redemptive work of Christ as a replacement for the atonement through the sacrifice of animals. Still if some want to live in OT times perhaps they might still get healed at the expense of an animal or two

I'm dying of Coronary artery disease, 1/3 of my heart (the back 1/3) is simply DEAD

Yeah, and it's too bad Jesus can't do nuthin 'bout that now ain't it?

Here's a hint... Jesus took this on His heart, so you wouldn't have to have it, now there's no since in you still keeping it so why don't you claim yer healin just like you claimed the salvation He purchased for you and... quit talking sickness and start talking healing like ya started talking being saved after you got borned again!

But if somebody asks: "can we pray for your healing?" I'd say yes. But since I HAVE NO FAITH for personal healing - I don't expect anything.

Never mind... Jesus could not heal nobody up in His hood because of their unbelief so it would be pointless to pray for healin. Carry on...

 

[JimB]

Yes, I understand that under the OT God did have a procedure to follow to get well... but, the Bible says that by the stripes of Jesus NT believers are healed.

So, you're going to have to explain to the Father that He has made an error and He needs to pay attention to what you are trying to point out.

Lemme know how that works out for ya

Here's a hint... God knows what He's doing and He knows what He's talking about, so it's always in our best interest to take Him at His Word





Doesn't he play center field for the Cubs?









Yeah, and it's too bad Jesus can't do nuthin 'bout that now ain't it?

Here's a hint... Jesus took this on His heart, so you wouldn't have to have it, now there's no since in you still keeping it so why don't you claim yer healin just like you claimed the salvation He purchased for you and... quit talking sickness and start talking healing like ya started talking being saved after you got borned again!





Never mind... Jesus could not heal nobody up in His hood because of their unbelief so it would be pointless to pray for healin. Carry on...

Very cute comeback, GG (and a bit snide). Normally I would not answer these sort of cutesy posts, but since this is the first time we have locked horns (unless, of course, "Gospel Guy" is a sock puppet), I will respond and say ...

You bet God knows what he’s doing. Too bad some don’t have a clue.

I tell you what, since this is my thread, I would like you to answer some of my questions before you evade/avoid them by posting some of your own.

As has been inferred in other posts, sickness was brought on by the Fall of Adam/Eve into Sin. But then so was halitosis, acne, warts, weeds in my garden, tornados, drought, floods, etc.etc.etc. None of these (including physical healing) required atonement. To say that Christ bore stripes on his back for the temporary removal of my headcold is as ludicrous, to me, as saying that Christ bore stripes on his back for the temporary removal of weeds in my garden. Both are part of the curse.

Now, if you were to say that Christ bore stripes on his back for the eventual healing of the planet, including weeds, hurricanes, and bad weather, along with the eventual redemption of our bodies to disease-free life everlasting, then I might agree with you because those things are eternal. But we will have to wait for our disease-free new bodies and curse-free new Earth. Until then “we groan, waiting eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies ... for in this body we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling” (Romans 8.23; 2 Cor. 5.2). Only then could I accept the otherwise fallacious doctrine of temporary physical healing being in the Atonement of Christ for sin. </SPAN>

BTW, I found 38 references to atonement for sin in my NKJV; 0 for atonement for healing, and all in the OT. In other versions of the Bible the word “atonement” does not appear and is usually translated “reconciliation.” In fact, except for Romans 5.11, and only in the KJV, the word reconciliation does not even appear in the Bible. Elsewhere, in other translations, the word “&#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#955;&#955;&#945;&#947;&#942;” is “reconciliation.” Ergo, it looks like we have made a complicated doctrine out of a mistranslated word. If that is the case, then to say healing is in the atonement would be like saying that to be physically healed is to be eternally reconciled with God.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Jim There are those among us who have never used the word atonement when it comes to healing by way of the Cross. Nevertheless "By His stripes we are healed "still remains

 

[Messy]

Jim There are those among us who have never used the word atonement when it comes to healing by way of the Cross. Nevertheless "By His stripes we are healed "still remains

Never heard of it either.

 

[JimB]

Jim There are those among us who have never used the word atonement when it comes to healing by way of the Cross. Nevertheless "By His stripes we are healed "still remains

Then you are excused.

 

[whatfor]

was trying to find the scripture saying that some are sick because they do not discern Christs body when taking communion, but anyway can anyone explain this, hope i am not off topic

 

[mourningdove~]

was trying to find the scripture saying that some are sick because they do not discern Christs body when taking communion, but anyway can anyone explain this, hope i am not off topic

Here is the passage of scripture I think you are referring to:

"Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world."

~ 1 Cor. 11:27-32

 

[Frogster]

Never heard of it either.

i think it's called PHIA or something like that, physical healing in the atonement, it has been debated here, and usually the same people fall in line with the doctrine, and they usually think cash comes via the atonement also.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Here is the passage of scripture I think you are referring to:

"Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world."

~ 1 Cor. 11:27-32

Exactly This passage alone should be enough for us to realize that we have been redeemed from the curse of sickness sin and death.

 

[Yitzchak]

But it didn't take the cross or "stripes" or the Atonement or anything else for God to heal the sick. He was already healing the sick all through the OT. Check your Bible.

Your point is somewhat misleading. God was already forgiving sins and taking people to heaven during the Old Testament time period. Abraham was considered righteous based upon faith during the Old Testament period. For you to imply that healing was available without the atonement requires that we draw the same conclusion about salvation since people were saved during the Old Testament.

People were healed in the same way that they were saved in the Old Testament time period. The atonement was applied backwards in time to them and forward in time to us. The atonement covers all of eternity. Not just the generation that happened to walk the earth at the same time as Jesus.

 

[Faulty]

Your point is somewhat misleading. God was already forgiving sins and taking people to heaven during the Old Testament time period. Abraham was considered righteous based upon faith during the Old Testament period. For you to imply that healing was available without the atonement requires that we draw the same conclusion about salvation since people were saved during the Old Testament.

People were healed in the same way that they were saved in the Old Testament time period. The atonement was applied backwards in time to them and forward in time to us. The atonement covers all of eternity. Not just the generation that happened to walk the earth at the same time as Jesus.

That's misleading as well. People were not the dwelling of the Spirit prior to the cross. They did not go straight to heaven when they died, Jesus had to go get them. They required a sacrifice to draw near to God because they did not have the sacrifice of Jesus as their covering. It wasn't the same at all.

But like you said, the healings were the same. In fact, the healing required no blood sacrifice to take place, unlike forgiveness. Salvation requires blood. Scripture states without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins, but physical healing requires no such requirement, ever.

 

[Frogster]

Your point is somewhat misleading. God was already forgiving sins and taking people to heaven during the Old Testament time period. Abraham was considered righteous based upon faith during the Old Testament period. For you to imply that healing was available without the atonement requires that we draw the same conclusion about salvation since people were saved during the Old Testament.

People were healed in the same way that they were saved in the Old Testament time period. The atonement was applied backwards in time to them and forward in time to us. The atonement covers all of eternity. Not just the generation that happened to walk the earth at the same time as Jesus.

they did not have sin remission in the OT.
The perfect word of 11:40 is that of 7:11, talking about sin.

Heb 11:40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.


According to Romans 5, all were in Adam, until the new Adam, clear facts that stand, thanks.