Are you saved?

[Hammster]

Except one problem. God told you not to.

Irrelevant to the point.

<*(((><

 

[Calminian]

Irrelevant to the point.

<*(((><

oh contraire, very relevant.

This always comes up, because people do not keep the objective in mind.

The &#8220;objective&#8221; is not to someday &#8220;get to heaven&#8221;.

&#8220;Going to heaven&#8221; is one of the God given incentives to help mature adult humans fulfill their earthly objective.

People that die before ever reaching the maturity they need, will never fulfill their earthly objective, so they will enter heaven with only a child for wonderful parent type of love and not Godly type Love.

He's absolutely right. Yours would not be the best approach in a world where freedom exists.

What about all the potential good the child might do as an adult? What if he's a missionary/evangelist or disease curing doctor?

To try to ensure good by killing is the same mistake Hitler made.

 

[bling]

From a human perspective, babies are probably innocent. From God's perspective, they might not be innocent. Well, Adam & Eve were created innocent. However, I am not sure if each human is born exactly as the first two humans were created. Therefore, I believe God somehow asks each aborted baby to choose Christ or Satan.

If an unborn baby magically can make such a choice (this goes way beyond human reasoning does it not?), then you have eliminated the whole logical reason behind humans spending time on earth. On earth mature adults have a real choice with likely alternatives they can chose to accept God&#8217;s help (surrender to Him) (humble accept His Love (Charity/mercy/grace/forgiveness) or they can go on fighting God seeking the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.

How would a baby have a real &#8220;choice&#8221; to make?

 

[bling]

This is a very good point and thoughtful rebuttal. While the anti-freedom advocate claims we should kill them before they become mature, to ensure they go to heaven, what about all the potential good the child might do as an adult? What if he's a missionary/evangelist or disease curing doctor?

This is likely why God tells us that we are not to play God and kill for good. That's what Hitler tried to do.

I am afraid you are still missing my point.

It does not really matter about the “good” (in human terms) we might do as adults. Any “good” we “do” is actually what we allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to do through us (really in spite of us).

Obtaining and growing Godly type Love, so we can fulfill our earthly mission statement “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy”, is what we want (it makes us like Christ who is God on earth).

All God’s efforts are directed at helping willing humans fulfill that objective. Part of God’s effort to help those willing is allowing innocent children to die, but that does not mean we can help that along, but should cease this opportunity to show, extend, experience, see, receive, get and grow Godly type Love.

 

[Calminian]

I am afraid you are still missing my point.

It does not really matter about the &#8220;good&#8221; (in human terms) we might do as adults. Any &#8220;good&#8221; we &#8220;do&#8221; is actually what we allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to do through us (really in spite of us).

But that indwelling is something that occurs in adulthood upon becoming born again. Therefore if we snuff out a life prior to the indwelling of the Spirit, how is that doing good for God? For they not only are saved and secured by that Spirit, but they are also moved to do good works by that Spirit.

You are arguing that in a world where libertarian freedom to trust in the gospel exists at a certain point of maturity, we should snuff out the life of kids before they reach that point in order to prevent them from going to hell. But your argument doesn't take into account all the other ministries of the Holy Spirit who does mighty things through mature believers. If you snuff out all children in order to save them, then who will the Spirit minister through?

Furthermore, what if God has decided that it is good for men to grow and be free, even if that means they'll also have the freedom to reject him?

 

[bling]

But that indwelling is something that occurs in adulthood upon becoming born again. Therefore if we snuff out a life prior to the indwelling of the Spirit, how is that doing good for God? For they not only are saved and secured by that Spirit, but they are also moved to do good works by that Spirit.

You are arguing that in a world where libertarian freedom to trust in the gospel exists at a certain point of maturity, we should snuff out the life of kids before they reach that point in order to prevent them from going to hell. But your argument doesn't take into account all the other ministries of the Holy Spirit who does mighty things through mature believers. If you snuff out all children in order to save them, then who will the Spirit minister through?

Again, our human objective while here on earth is to: Obtaining and growing Godly type Love, so we can fulfill our earthly mission statement “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy”, is what we want (it makes us like Christ who is God on earth).

All the rest is just a blessed (our privilege and honor) opportunity to be part of (really just allowing God) God’s effort for others.

The “problem” with snuffing out a life before maturity is not God’s problem (God would be unable to complete His need work on earth), but it would be a tragedy for those that were snuffed out. Those snuffed out would go to heaven without ever obtaining Godly type Love (that is the whole reason humans spend time on earth). A baby does not have what is needed to obtain Godly type Love and thus become like God/Jesus.

Furthermore, what if God has decided that it is good for men to grow and be free, even if that means they'll also have the freedom to reject him?

All mature adults do start out rejecting God (sinning)?

Sin is not the problem and has purpose.

God quenches His own desires for man and allows man to sin in order to help willing humans (those that are willing to eventually accept God’s help) fulfill their earthly objective.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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