Are you saved?

[greatdivide46]

Then I guess our most merciful action would be to murder all babies to guarantee their eternal life. That makes abortion the ultimate mercy.

Groan.

It saddens me that anyone would think that someone else thinks this is a viable option. Especially given that they are Christian. I dunno, maybe ones own doctrine does have something to do with what one thinks someone else believes.

 

[Eddie L]

It saddens me that anyone would think that someone else thinks this is a viable option. Especially given that they are Christian. I dunno, maybe ones own doctrine does have something to do with what one thinks someone else believes.

I don't think anyone believes this, but it is the logical conclusion of what folks here have said they believe.

 

[greatdivide46]

I don't think anyone believes this, but it is the logical conclusion of what folks here have said they believe.

How's that? To believe that a child is born innocent logically means that murder is OK? I guess I don't get that kind of logic.

 

[Hammster]

How's that? To believe that a child is born innocent logically means that murder is OK? I guess I don't get that kind of logic.

If you want to ensure that a child will be saved, and they are born innocent, then the most merciful thing you can do is kill them. That way, you are sure they are in heaven.

<*(((><

 

[Skala]

Actually is because they are innocent and God bestows mercy on them, therefore they go to heaven because God loves them.

An innocent person doesn't need mercy, by very definition.

 

[greatdivide46]

If you want to ensure that a child will be saved, and they are born innocent, then the most merciful thing you can do is kill them. That way, you are sure they are in heaven.

<*(((><

I think I'm glad I'm not a Calvinist if this is what they think those that are not Calvinists believe. This is abhorrent. And BTW see Skala's post above. The innocent don't need mercy so how is it merciful to kill the innocent?

 

[greatdivide46]

An innocent person doesn't need mercy, by very definition.

OK, you have a point there. I guess then, God lets the innocent into heaven because they are not guilty of sin. No mercy involved in that, apparently.

 

[Hammster]

I think I'm glad I'm not a Calvinist if this is what they think those that are not Calvinists believe. This is abhorrent. And BTW see Skala's post above. The innocent don't need mercy so how is it merciful to kill the innocent?

I think you are missing the point.

<*(((><

 

[JoeyArnold]

I believe that maybe not all babies go to Heaven.

 

[Ormly]

I believe that maybe not all babies go to Heaven.

Babies are innocent. They are born that way. So now, which do you suppose might not "make the cut"?

 

[JoeyArnold]

Babies are innocent. They are born that way. So now, which do you suppose might not "make the cut"?

From a human perspective, babies are probably innocent. From God's perspective, they might not be innocent. Well, Adam & Eve were created innocent. However, I am not sure if each human is born exactly as the first two humans were created. Therefore, I believe God somehow asks each aborted baby to choose Christ or Satan.

 

[Ormly]

From a human perspective, babies are probably innocent. From God's perspective, they might not be innocent. Well, Adam & Eve were created innocent. However, I am not sure if each human is born exactly as the first two humans were created. Therefore, I believe God somehow asks each aborted baby to choose Christ or Satan.

Well we both know folk aren't born as Adam was created however, no probability here, they are. Unless Jesus needs to make a distinction here when He said "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter in". Luke 18:17 (KJV) OR when He said: "suffer the little children to come unto Me and forbid them not (BECAUSE), for such is the kingdom of Heaven"?

Whatta ya think?

 

[greatdivide46]

I think you are missing the point.

<*(((><

I think you're right! I must be because I can't believe that anyone would think that some else believes its somehow merciful to murder innocent babies to insure they get to heaven. In fact I can't even believe that a brother or sister in Christ would even suggest such a thing.

 

[Hammster]

I think you're right! I must be because I can't believe that anyone would think that some else believes its somehow merciful to murder innocent babies to insure they get to heaven. In fact I can't even believe that a brother or sister in Christ would even suggest such a thing.

Nobody is. That's why I think you're missing the point.

<*(((><

 

[greatdivide46]

Nobody is. That's why I think you're missing the point.

<*(((><

Yep, I guess so.

 

[bling]

So all babies go to heaven, in your view bling?

On what basis?

God is Love, God is our Father, God is concerned about innocent people (Jonah 4: 10 But the LORD said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left).

It would not be just or fair for God to treat babies differently, since they cannot be held responsible for their actions. For God to have some different “loves” for different babies would not be like a wonderful parent to be and would mean God is inconsistent (consistency is a characteristic of being just).

We are all God’s children, because we are all descendents of Adam (made in the image of God).

1) They are innocent and righteous, therefore go to heaven because God owes it to them

2) They are sinners and guilty, but God bestows mercy on them

Which is it?

God as the Creator does have some responsibility for and toward what He has created. (We all understand this relationship as responsible parents, we can be held accountable until our children become mature). The “babies” have done nothing to deserve heaven so God does not “owe” them a place in heaven, but neither have these babies have done anything wrong to deserve hell. So what should a Loving God do with them? We know Adam and Eve did not “deserve” to be in the Garden prior to sinning, but that is where God allowed them to stay.

 

[bling]

Then I guess our most merciful action would be to murder all babies to guarantee their eternal life. That makes abortion the ultimate mercy.

Groan.

This always comes up, because people do not keep the objective in mind.

The “objective” is not to someday “get to heaven”.

“Going to heaven” is one of the God given incentives to help mature adult humans fulfill their earthly objective.

People that die before ever reaching the maturity they need, will never fulfill their earthly objective, so they will enter heaven with only a child for wonderful parent type of love and not Godly type Love.

 

[Hammster]

Yep, I guess so.

No one is advocating infanticide or abortion. Nor is anyone accusing someone else of that view. What we are saying is that if the view is correct that children are born with sin, real or imputed, then it would be better for them to be killed in infancy and be guaranteed a place in heaven (a good thing), than be allowed to grow up with a 50/50 chance of going to hell (a bad thing).

<*(((><

 

[Calminian]

No one is advocating infanticide or abortion. Nor is anyone accusing someone else of that view. What we are saying is that if the view is correct that children are born with sin, real or imputed, then it would be better for them to be killed in infancy and be guaranteed a place in heaven (a good thing), than be allowed to grow up with a 50/50 chance of going to hell (a bad thing).

<*(((><

Except one problem. God told you not to.

 

[Calminian]

This always comes up, because people do not keep the objective in mind.

The “objective” is not to someday “get to heaven”.

“Going to heaven” is one of the God given incentives to help mature adult humans fulfill their earthly objective.

People that die before ever reaching the maturity they need, will never fulfill their earthly objective, so they will enter heaven with only a child for wonderful parent type of love and not Godly type Love.

This is a very good point and thoughtful rebuttal. While the anti-freedom advocate claims we should kill them before they become mature, to ensure they go to heaven, what about all the potential good the child might do as an adult? What if he's a missionary/evangelist or disease curing doctor?

This is likely why God tells us that we are not to play God and kill for good. That's what Hitler tried to do.