ARE YOU READY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

[Lost4words]

The problem with this point is that the Gospel of John is an historical account. John is writing in the past tense, what has already happened, not the present tense.

You misread what has been written.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Continuing with the questions in the OP.

Q 10. WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WHEN DO PEOPLE RECEIVE IT?

SUMMARY SO FAR AND PUTTING IT TOGETHER

We have looked at and ideitified who the HARLOT WOMAN sitting on the scarlet colored BEAST is and let the scriptures define these symbols which the bible alone says that the MYSTERY HARLOT NAMED BABYLON represents the UNFAITHFUL MOTHER CHURCH of all Churches which also has UNFAITHFUL DAUGHTER CHURCHES * REVELATION 14:8; 17:1-5; 18:1-10. We have also seen through God’s WORD that it is NOT the people in these CHURCHES that God are the problem but what they teach the people which leads them away from God’s Word and that God has his people in ALL of these Churches and is calling them out to worship him in Spirit and in TRUTH according to the Word of God *REVELATION 18:1:4. We also saw that a BEAST in bible prophecy represents a KINGDOM while a HORN on a BEAST represents a KING that may come out of that KINGDOM *DANIEL 7:23-25

We also looked the HEBREW and GREEK meanings of MARK; SEAL and SIGN and compared these word meanings with the scriptures found in REVELATION 13:6; REVELATION 7:4-10; DEUTERONOMY 6:8; EZEKIEL 9:1-11; EXEKIEL 20:11-12; All of which liked the SERVITUDE of OBEDIENCE to God’s 10 Commandments to God’s SEAL; SIGN and MARK (which all have a similar meaning) or SERVITUDE to DISOBEDIENCE to God’s Commandments. *REVELATION 14:8-12. As the MARK is a symbol of SERVITUDE to God’s WORD and OBEDIENCE or SERVITUDE to the BEAST and DISOBEDIENCE we saw that RECEIVING the BEASTS MARK of DISOBEDIENCE in the HAND or the FOREHEAD means; *HAND = To act out or to do action (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 4:28 etc) *FOREHAND = To believe or think (EZEKIEL 3:8-9; JEREMIAH 3:3 see also word meanings).

……………

CONCLUSION: The MARK OF THE BEAST is a SYMBOL OF SERVITUDE to the BEAST of REVELATION 13 and REVELATION 14; REVELATION 17 and REVELATION 18 which is influenced by the MOTHER OF ALL UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES names BABYLON THE MAOTHER OF HARLOTS *REVELATION 17:1-5.

This MARK is received in the HAND which means to act out and do what the BEAST commands in WORSHIPPING the BEASTS image (you do not have to believe the BEAST), while to receive the MARK in the FOREHEAD means to BELIEVE and do what the BEAST commands *REVELATION 13:15-16.

Those who are SEALED by GOD serve him through OBEDIENCE and SERVITUDE to God’s WORD *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. They do not bow down to the BEASTS FALSE IMAGE of WORSHIP and before the final judgments of God are poured out GOD calls all his true people to leave these CHURCHES to whorship and follow him in Spirit and in Truth.

The MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE SEAL OF GOD is received over SERVITUDE doing what the BEAST asks resulting in DISOBEDIENCE to God’s WORD or BELIEVING and FOLLOWING what God asks us through his WORD and disobeying what the BEAST asks us. The issue will be over WORSHIP. Who do we worship, God by believing and following his WORD or the BEAST by following the teaching and traditions of men that lead us away from God to break his Commandments *REVELATION 13:8; 13:12; 13:15; 14:7; 14:11; MATTHEW 15:3-9

The issue of worship is over God’s 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172

This results in a people of GOD who keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God by faith in God’s WORD. REVELATION 22:9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. The issue is over OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE.

No one has received the MARK OF THE BEAST until it become ENFORCED UNDER CIVIL LAW *REVELATION 13:16-17. The issue will be over worship *REVELATION 13:8; 13:12; 13:15; 14:7; 14:11; MATTHEW 15:3-9. Do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD and keep ALL THE COMMANDMETNS of GOD *REVELATION 22:9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14 or do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW the MOTHER OF HARLOTS *The MOTHER of all UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES, and RECEIVE the MARK of the BEAST? Which will you choose?

.............

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).


God bless.

 

[Lost4words]

Continuing with the questions in the OP.

Q 10. WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WHEN DO PEOPLE RECEIVE IT?

SUMMARY SO FAR AND PUTTING IT TOGETHER

We have looked at and ideitified who the HARLOT WOMAN sitting on the scarlet colored BEAST is and let the scriptures define these symbols which the bible alone says that the MYSTERY HARLOT NAMED BABYLON represents the UNFAITHFUL MOTHER CHURCH of all Churches which also has UNFAITHFUL DAUGHTER CHURCHES * REVELATION 14:8; 17:1-5; 18:1-10. We have also seen through God’s WORD that it is NOT the people in these CHURCHES that God are the problem but what they teach the people which leads them away from God’s Word and that God has his people in ALL of these Churches and is calling them out to worship him in Spirit and in TRUTH according to the Word of God *REVELATION 18:1:4. We also saw that a BEAST in bible prophecy represents a KINGDOM while a HORN on a BEAST represents a KING that may come out of that KINGDOM *DANIEL 7:23-25

We also looked the HEBREW and GREEK meanings of MARK; SEAL and SIGN and compared these word meanings with the scriptures found in REVELATION 13:6; REVELATION 7:4-10; DEUTERONOMY 6:8; EZEKIEL 9:1-11; EXEKIEL 20:11-12; All of which liked the servitude of OBEDIENCE to God’s 10 Commandments to God’s SEAL; SIGN and MARK (which all have a similar meaning) or servitude to DISOBEDIENCE to God’s Commandments. *REVELATION 14:8-12. As the MARK is a symbol of SERVITUDE to God’s WORD and OBEDIENCE or SERVITUDE to the BEAST and DISOBEDIENCE we saw that RECEIVING the BEASTS MARK of DISOBEDIENCE in the HAND or the FOREHEAD means; *HAND = To act out or to do action (Ecclesiastes 9:10; Acts 4:28 etc) *FOREHAND = To believe or think (EZEKIEL 3:8-9; JEREMIAH 3:3 see also word meanings).

……………

CONCLUSION: The MARK OF THE BEAST is a SYMBOL OF SERVITUDE to the BEAST of REVELATION 13 and REVELATION 14; REVELATION 17 and REVELATION 18 which is influenced by the MOTHER OF ALL UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES. This MARK is received in the HAND which means to act out and do what the BEAST commands in WORSHIPPING the BEASTS image (you do not have to believe the BEAST), while to receive the MARK in the FOREHEAD means to BELIEVE and do what the BEAST commands *REVELATION 13:15-16. Those who are SEALED by GOD serve him through OBEDIENCE and SERVITUDE to God’s WORD *REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. They do not bow down to the BEASTS FALSE IMAGE of WORSHIP and before the final judgments of God are poured out GOD calls all his true people to leave these CHURCHES to whorship and follow him in Spirit and in Truth.

The MARK OF THE BEAST AND THE SEAL OF GOD is received over servitude doing what the BEAST asks resulting in DISOBEDIENCE to God’s WORD or BELIEVING and FOLLOWING what God asks us through his WORD and disobeying what the BEAST asks us. The issue will be over WORSHIP. Who do we worship, God by believing and following his WORD or the BEAST by following the teaching and traditions of men that lead us away from God to break his Commandments *REVELATION 13:8; 13:12; 13:15; 14:7; 14:11;

The issue of worship is over God’s 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172

This results in a people of GOD who keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God by faith in God’s WORD. REVELATION 22:9; REVELATION 12:17; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. The issue is over OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE.

No one has received the MARK OF THE BEAST until it become ENFORCED UNDER CIVIL LAW. The issue will be over worship. Do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD and keep ALL THE COMMANDMETNS of GOD or do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW the MOTHER OF HARLOTS *The MOTHER of all UNFAITHFUL CHURCHES, and RECEIVE the MARK of the BEAST? Which will you choose?

God bless.

Your 'opinions' 'interpretations' etc, are very wide of the mark my friend. Its what 'you' have read from scripture. Its what 'you' and your church believe.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your 'opinions' 'interpretations' etc, are very wide of the mark my friend. Its what 'you' have read from scripture. Its what 'you' and your church believe.

Not really brother. You can see they are not my opinions but God's WORD.

 

[Lost4words]

Not really brother. You can see they are not my opinions but God's WORD.

You read Gods word and then interpret it to suit your very own 'individual' beliefs.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You read Gods word and then interpret it to suit your very own 'individual' beliefs.

Not at all brother please read post # 182 linked click me and the scriptures provided there showing the rules for prophetic interpretation of the symbols used in the prophetic scriptures which is to let God's Word interpret itself. The scriptures provided in all the posts here are letting God's WORD interpret intself.

2 PETER 1:19-21
[19], We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20], Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation. [21], For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

If you want to understand bible prophecy we need to let God's WORD interpret itself. This is the approach we have taken here with the scriptures that are shared from God's WORD

Hope this helps.

God bless

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Some scholars believe John was written much earlier!

And many scholars are wrong.
Just a thought.

 

[Lost4words]

Not at all brother please read post # 182 linked click me and the scriptures provided there showing the rules for prophetic interpretation of the symbols used in the prophetic scriptures which is to let God's Word interpret itself. The scriptures provided in all the posts here are letting God's WORD interpret intself.

2 PETER 1:19-21
[19], We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20], Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation. [21], For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

If you want to understand bible prophecy we need to let God's WORD interpret itself. This is the approach we have taken here with the scriptures that are shared from God's WORD

Hope this helps.

God bless

Your words are written to explain the scripture you have quoted.

 

[Lost4words]

And many scholars are wrong.
Just a thought.

Agree. 50/50

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your words are written to explain the scripture you have quoted.

Partly true brother but not completely. Scripture was used to interpret scripture which is the rule for prophetic interpretations

2 PETER 1:19-21
[19], We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20], Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation. [21], For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

The reason there is so many different interpretations of prophecy is because people put their own privat interpretation on the scriptures. This has not been done in the posts and the scriptures provided here. God's WORD interprets the meaning of the symbols used in these scriptures.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lost4words]

Partly true brother but not completely. Scripture was used to interpret scripture which is the rule for prophetic interpretations

2 PETER 1:19-21
[19], We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20], Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation. [21], For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

The reason there is so many different interpretations of prophecy is because people put their own privat interpretation on the scriptures. This has not been done in the posts and the scriptures provided here. God's WORD interprets the meaning of the symbols used in these scriptures.

Hope this helps.

I disagree. You have included your very own interpretations.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I disagree. You have included your very own interpretations.

Not really my friend, but of course you are free to disagree. Only God's WORD has been provided and God's WORD has been used to interpret and define the symbols used in the prophetic scriptures. What is it that you disagree with and why? Let's test what we are both saying against God's WORD. I have linked all the posts and scriptures provided here to the Question section in the first page and post of the OP if you wish to find anything shared here and more than happy to discuss anything presented here with you brother. I really appreciate your thoughts here though and thanks for sharing with us.

God bless

 

[klutedavid]

You misread what has been written.

So you would agree with the points listed below (bible.org) and take an early date.

(1) The destruction of Jerusalem is not mentioned. This fits extremely well with a date before 66 CE.

(2) The topographical accuracy of pre-70 Palestine argues that at least some of the material embedded in the gospel comes from before the Jewish War.

(3) There is much primitive terminology used in this gospel. E.g., Jesus’ followers are called “disciples” in John, not apostles.

(4) The conceptual and verbal parallels with Qumran argue strongly for an overtly Jewish document which fits well within the first century milieu.

(5) The date of P52 at c. 100-150, coupled with the date of Papyrus Egerton 2 at about the same time—a document which employed both John and the synoptics—is almost inconceivable if John is to be dated in the 90s.34

(6) John’s literary independence from and apparent lack of awareness of the synoptic gospels argue quite strongly for an early date. Indeed, this independence/ignorance argues that all the gospels were written within a relatively short period of time, with Matthew and Luke having the good fortune of seeing and using Mark in their composition.

(7) Finally, there is a strong piece of internal evidence for an early date. In John 5:2 the author says that “there is in Jerusalem, by the sheep-gate, a pool (the one called Bethesda in Hebrew) which has five porticoes.” Without discussing all the interpretations possible for this verse suffice it to say that (a) the verb “is” (ἐστιν) cannot be a historical present, and (b) the pool was destroyed in 70 CE.35 By far the most plausible conclusion is that this gospel was written before 70 CE.

In sum, we believe that a pre-70 date for the Fourth Gospel is the most probable one. Further, we believe that this gospel should be dated late in 65 or even in 66, for the following two reasons: (a) it is doubtful that it should be dated after 66, because otherwise the lack of an Olivet Discourse in which many of the prophecies were at that time coming true, is inexplicable; (b) the gospel should perhaps be dated after Peter’s death, as we shall see when we examine the purpose.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Apostle Peter said it best. (and NO, it has NOTHING to do with circumcision --- why would that be as described?)
Acts 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Hi Steve,

ACTS 15 has everything to do with CIRCUMCISION as this is the CONTEXT of the CHAPTER and it is the reason the APOSTLE PAUL and Barnabas went to Jerusalem. Your missing the context, let's see why? Let's look at the chapter context in v1-2

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: v1 defines the CONTEXT of the chapted and it was that the JEWISH Believers came to the gentiles stating that UNLESS they are CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses they cannot be saved. Note the issue here is that the JEWISH believers were claiming that CIRCUMCISION was a requirement for salvation.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: Which question were was PAUL and BARNABAS going to Jerusalem to discuss with the APOSTLES? IF CIRCUMCISION WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION for the gentile believers. So the CONTEXT of ACTS 15, the topic of conversation and the issue was; IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION for Gentile believers.

Hope this helps and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[klutedavid]

Hi Steve,

ACTS 15 has everything to do with CIRCUMCISION as this is the CONTEXT of the CHAPTER and it is the reason the APOSTLE PAUL and Barnabas went to Jerusalem. Your missing the context, let's see why? Let's look at the chapter context in v1-2

ACTS 15:1-2
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: v1 defines the CONTEXT of the chapted and it was that the JEWISH Believers came to the gentiles stating that UNLESS they are CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses they cannot be saved. Note the issue here is that the JEWISH believers were claiming that CIRCUMCISION was a requirement for salvation.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: Which question were was PAUL and BARNABAS going to Jerusalem to discuss with the APOSTLES? IF CIRCUMCISION WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION for the gentile believers. So the CONTEXT of ACTS 15, the topic of conversation and the issue was; IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION for Gentile believers.

Hope this helps and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

It helps if you read the whole chapter in deciding what the actual topic was, that was under debate in Jerusalem.

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:10
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

The yoke is the law, which burdened both the apostles and their fathers. We have the specific mention of the law, 'and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses'.

This matter is beyond any debate, because the text specified the topic that was debated.

Circumcision is an abbreviation for the law, and it is often used that way in the scripture.

Let's assume that the whole debate was really about circumcision. The advice that the council in Jerusalem returned, was in conflict with that idea. The council recommended abstaining from sexual immorality, which has nothing to do with the question of circumcision. So you see that the debate revolved around whether, Gentiles were now under the law as Christians.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It helps if you read the whole chapter in deciding what the actual topic was, that was under debate in Jerusalem.

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:5
But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:10
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

The yoke is the law, which burdened both the apostles and their fathers. We have the specific mention of the law, 'and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses'.

This matter is beyond any debate, because the text specified the topic that was debated.

Circumcision is an abbreviation for the law, and it is often used that way in the scripture.

Let's assume that the whole debate was really about circumcision. The advice that the council in Jerusalem returned, was in conflict with that idea. The council recommended abstaining from sexual immorality, which has nothing to do with the question of circumcision. So you see that the debate revolved around whether, Gentiles were now under the law as Christians.

Hello David, nice to see you.

The Chapter TOPIC and CONTEXT of ACTS 15 is very clear as outlined in v1-2 which shows that the topic of contorversy and the question to be decided in JERUSALEM was; IS CIRCUMCISION a requirement for salvation for gentile believers.

ACTS 15:1-2

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES, YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: v1 defines the CONTEXT of the chapted and it was that the JEWISH Believers came to the gentiles stating that UNLESS they are CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses they cannot be saved. Note the issue here is that the JEWISH believers were claiming that CIRCUMCISION was a requirement for salvation.

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM, SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: Which question were was PAUL and BARNABAS going to Jerusalem to discuss with the APOSTLES? IF CIRCUMCISION WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION for the gentile believers. So the CONTEXT of ACTS 15, the topic of conversation and the issue was; IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION for Gentile believers.

..............

Let's continue in more detail with the rest of the scriptures. The outcome brother if you consider the CONTEXT and the question being considered in v1-2 is still the same. Let's look at the scriptures...

[3-4] They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but should they keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCISIONS is from the law of MOSES not God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

...........

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

...............

NOTE: If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments than according to your interpretation Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS is contradicting himself and do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15
You do not believe brother David, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

NOTE: These were new gentile believers who were to continue learning the word of God through the scriptures and also by the Apostles.

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

NOTE: The issue and chapter context further noted and decided from v1-2 is the issue of CIRCUMCISION. Not God's 10 commandments.

[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29], That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

.................

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...


1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

Hope this helps.

 

[Kenny'sID]

.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why would it be odd if the bible never ever uses the word Sunday? The word Sunday is not even mentioned in the bible. It is a word that along with our current week day names are pagan in origin and not biblical.

No reason at all for the bible to mention that. My point had nothing to do with terminology/nomenclature, it had everything to do with the problem of Sunday worship the SDA's feel is a broken commandment that will get us in trouble, or as you put it "following God's commandments".

You found a way to completely ignore my point by making it about something that it very obviously is not...my misunderstanding of SDA views. You only needed look at the question marks in my post to know what I was getting at, yet you did not address a single comment. I know exactly what the SDA views on this are, you don't need to explain any of it. You chose to pretend I misunderstood SDA views in order to evade my questions and that is a very bad sign.

In God's WORD the days of the week were all numbered according to God's nomenculture and counting system that had it's origin from GENESIS. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4 Day 5, Day 6 also called PREPARATION DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH and God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. These were the names of all the days of the week in both the HEBREW and GREEK scriptures and all revolved around God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of God's 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11.

Why are you telling me that, what made you think I didn't understand that, and that needed addressing more than my clear points/questions?

The MARK OF THE BEAST is over worship and keeping of the commandments of God

And that is exactly what I addressed.

Would you please stick with the point of my questions? If you still don't understand what that is, I'll be happy to try to make it clearer. I shrunk the post to just what you quoted so there is no confusion. Think of it this way, again, I know SDA views, and have for years, you don't need to address that, you need to address why in all the bible with all the specific lists of things that will get us sent to Hell, why is the sin you mention never mentioned as one of those, not once?

FWIW, here are those scriptures, and please notice, there is not so much as a hint to what SDA thinks is a huge problem...nothing:

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Kenny'sID]

Revelation 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

LoveGodsWord, that is another case of clearly a physical mark. Another question, why would God who puts things simply and clearly, depend on SDA's to unravel something that is not obvious at all, why would he not just put it simple, and say it was what you say it is? Why would God, who is not a God of confusion, make this very important part so complicated/confusing, the only way anyone will understand it, is if it is unraveled by man? It makes no sense he would. It's clearly so confusing no one would have gotten it had the SDA not showed them, and that in itself goes completely against what the bible says about God not being a God of confusion.

Revelation 13:16-18
Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Once again, this is clearly either a "name" or the "number of his name" that is the actual physical mark to be placed in the forehead/right hand. That is what it says simply, and that is what it simply means.

In order to get it to mean what SDA does, scripture has to be stretched so tightly, if something had slipped during the manufacturing of the SDA view, surely someone would have been badly hurt.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No reason at all for the bible to mention that. My point had nothing to do with terminology/nomenclature, it had everything to do with the problem of Sunday worship the SDA's feel is a broken commandment that will get us in trouble, or as you put it "following God's commandments".

You found a way to completely ignore my point by making it about something that it very obviously is not...my misunderstanding of SDA views. You only needed look at the question marks in my post to know what I was getting at, yet you did not address a single comment. I know exactly what the SDA views on this are, you don't need to explain any of it. You chose to pretend I misunderstood SDA views in order to evade my questions and that is a very bad sign.

Why are you telling me that, what made you think I didn't understand that, and that needed addressing more than my clear points/questions?

And that is exactly what I addressed.

Would you please stick with the point of my questions? If you still don't understand what that is, I'll be happy to try to make it clearer. I shrunk the post to just what you quoted so there is no confusion. Think of it this way, again, I know SDA views, and have for years, you don't need to address that, you need to address why in all the bible with all the specific lists of things that will get us sent to Hell, why is the sin you mention never mentioned as one of those, not once?

Hello Kenny, nice to see you.

I went back to check the original post that I was responding to as I wanted to check this with the answer I proivded you to see if I missed something. It seems the post provided to you was correct.

You wrote the following...

Don't you find it odd that the Bible never once mentions Sunday worship as the huge problem you do, when it does mention all the other sins that can get us into trouble? And the things that it does mention are not wrapped up in a mystery that can only be unraveled by man, meaning we have to depend on man in order to know what's wrong and right and not what the Bible clearly and simply says, something that could get us into big trouble.

Now bother I reponded to the original post you made above with a detailed scripture response which answered all of this post of yours by saying...

..................

LGW wrote: Why would it be odd if the bible never ever uses the word Sunday? The word Sunday is not even mentioned in the bible. It is a word that along with our current week day names are pagan in origin and not biblical.

In God's WORD the days of the week were all numbered according to God's nomenculture and counting system that had it's origin from GENESIS. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4 Day 5, Day 6 also called PREPARATION DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH and God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. These were the names of all the days of the week in both the HEBREW and GREEK scriptures and all revolved around God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH of God's 4th Commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11.

The MARK OF THE BEAST is not and never has been about worshipping God on a Sunday. We should worship God everyday of the week. It is about breaking God's LAW and SIN. It does not matter if it is God's 4th Commandment or any other of the commandments. If we break any one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them *JAMES 2:10-11. None have yet to receive the MARK OF THE BEAST because it has yet to be enforced by the BEAST. We will look at the scriptures concerning this latter.

All through time from GENESIS to REVELATIONS God's judgments have only ever come to mankind beause of sin (breaking God's LAW). Mankind was destroyed with a flood because of sin. Sodom and Gommorah was detroyed because of sin and God's people went into exile because of sin. All of God's judgments have only ever been given to mankind because of sin (breaking any of God's commandments). JESUS says it will be the same at his 2nd coming;

LUKE 17:26-30
[26], And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[27], They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
[28], Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
[29], But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30], Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The MARK OF THE BEAST is over worship and keeping of the commandments of God *REVELATION 14:7-12. SIN (breaking any of God's Commandments) brings the judgments of GOD. The judgments of God to mankind from GENESIS to REVELATIONS have only ever been given over sin (Breaking God's commandments). JESUS says it shall be the same just before his 2nd comming *LUKE 17:26-30.

Will provide a more detailed scripture study soon (note already done now linked).

God bless.

..................

As you can see above I have not ignored anything you have written but provided a detailed scripture reply. If you feel that I have missed something in response to your original post or a point you have made I am happy to discuss it with you but please do not accuse me of something I have not done here.

FWIW, here are those scriptures, and please notice, there is not so much as a hint to what SDA thinks is a huge problem...nothing:

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Brother not sure why you think the scriptures you have posted above support your view that sin and breaking God's 10 commandments is not an issue with the Mark of the BEAST?

According to the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures, God's 10 Commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect but if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11. They lead us to Christ to the foot of the cross were we have no excuse *GALATIANS 3:22-25. They show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour so that we can be pointed to the gift of God's dear son that we might be FORGIVEN by and born again by faith to LOVE *EPESIANS 2:8. This is Gods NEW COVENANT promise of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12 because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *ROMANS 13:8-10.

If your faith does not have the fruit of LOVE than you are still in your sins and need to seek God's forgiveness and be born again to walk in God's SPIRIT *JAMES 2:18-20; 26; GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 3:3-9. Those who are continuing in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son and do not know him *ROMANS 6:23; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-26.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.