Are you pro mutilation or anti mutilation?

[MooCar93]

So, in the case of an ectopic pregnancy, the woman has to die because it's "God's will"? Ok, cool. How about the next time you get strep throat, uberbeliever, or some other type of easily curable infection/illness, you have to stay home and let it slowly consume your body because it was God's will that you become ill? That sounds perfectly logical to me (at least by your warped reasoning).

I'm also really curious how your views would play out if you had to deal with this problem directly. Say your wife, God forbid, is raped. Would you raise the rapist's offspring as your own and give it all the love it, as an innocent baby, deserves? Something tells me you'd change your tune pretty quickly.

 

[Ramona]

I was a member of a few different Baptist churches back in the day. I found that Southern Baptist churches are more sympathetic to rape victims than Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches. Not all, but some, of your IFB churches believe that being raped is typically God's punishment for a specific sin, whether it's being a woman and being alone without the presence of a male chaperone (father, brother, husband, church elder and their family, etc.), immodest dress, going to bars, being alone in the company of a man you're not married or related to, disobeying your parents and sneaking off to a friend's house, missing church service, going to public school, etc. Many of your IFB churches here in the south are also very racist. They are adamantly opposed to interracial marriage and having bi-racial children and I've never found one around my area that has am ethnic minority congregant. *shrugs*

Kat, are you referring to our friend Mr. Ross and the like? Have you read what he says about interracial lovin'? It's criminal...that guy needs to be put in a cage ASAP.

OK, end derailment of thread. We now return to our regularly scheduled promotions of various human rights violations.

 

[ARainySeptember]

Are you suggesting that Southern Baptists (or Baptists in General) are racists as a Denomination?

 

[Uberbeliever]

To try and defend Uber --- the point I'd like to take from it is, YES rape is a vile vile and evil thing and is a lie straight from Satan. But no Christian can deny that God can turn even the ugliest evet into a jewel. He can make a pearl out of a sharp piece of sand. While never justifying or promoting rape in any way -- the baby that results could be the joy of that woman's life. I have heard of many woman who continue with the pregnancy and feel as such. That their child is now their ray of sunshine or rainbow after the hurricane.

I'd never tell a woman who'd been rape what to do because I don't know myself what I would do -- but I can say, and what I'm hoping Uber means is that this child, though a result from an evil act, can still be a good thing.

Finally, someone with a real sense of reasoning! The thing that irritates me most is that a lot of people would take your BEAUTIFUL translation of what I said, and say something like this:
"If the woman has the rape child, she would have to look at him/her every day and be reminded of the child's HORRIBLE conception."

Or...

"If the woman has the child, she would forever resent the child and maybe even abuse him/her, physically or emotionally."

Those are both arrogant statements and no one else here can say that I just pulled those out of my...well you get the idea.

 

[katautumn]

Are you suggesting that Southern Baptists (or Baptists in General) are racists as a Denomination?

Not at all, but please bear in mind that I live in the South where racism runs rampant anyway. I have been in Baptist Churches (Southern, IFB, Footwashing, Full Gospel, etc.) where racist views were conveyed to the congregation with misinterpreted Scriptures being used as a smokescreen. I have found that larger Southern Baptist churches (aka, Megachurches) are very diverse in their congregations; however, the smaller IFB and Footwashing Baptist churches I have attended in the past were not at all welcoming of African Americans and even preached against interracial relationships because of some generational curse from Ham. Anyway, I wasn't trying to say that the Baptist denomination, as a whole, espouses or even endorses racist opinions.

ARainySeptember, I think it's great what you do for those kids. Please keep up the great work helping out those who simply need love and encouragement in their heartbreaking and troublesome lives.

 

[ARainySeptember]

I have a student that has been sexually abused by a man the mother brought home. I thought I could never look at that child and see a child. I thought I'd always feel a void there because I knew what had happened to him....I knew the atrocity that he faced as a little boy. But you know what? After awhile, you grow to love the kid, you teach him, to learn what makes him laugh, what makes him tick, you help him read and re-explain his math homework to him....and after awhile, you forget about it and just love him for being him. I only remember when it is beneficial to the student that I remember where he's coming from...

 

[ARainySeptember]

Not at all, but please bear in mind that I live in the South where racism runs rampant anyway. I have been in Baptist Churches (Southern, IFB, Footwashing, Full Gospel, etc.) where racist views were conveyed to the congregation with misinterpreted Scriptures being used as a smokescreen. I have found that larger Southern Baptist churches (aka, Megachurches) are very diverse in their congregations; however, the smaller IFB and Footwashing Baptist churches I have attended in the past were not at all welcoming of African Americans and even preached against interracial relationships because of some generational curse from Ham. Anyway, I wasn't trying to say that the Baptist denomination, as a whole, espouses or even endorses racist opinions.

ARainySeptember, I think it's great what you do for those kids. Please keep up the great work helping out those who simply need love and encouragement in their heartbreaking and troublesome lives.

Again, thank you so much for the encouragement -- I need it.

I live in the South as well, East Texas to be exact -- can't be much worse than Missippi or Georgia. But I don't think it runs "rampant"....maybe among the ignorant.

As to your running across I'll say "Non-Examples of Christ-Like Churches" I'll say what I've said in many other threads -- you're always going to get a rotten apple in a barrel. Especially in the Baptist denomination because it is set up so that each individual church can do ... basically what it wants and preach what it feels is Biblical.

Maybe its just in my mind that I find it hard to imagine a pastor preaching against inter-racial marriages -- because I myself find that so.....19th century? Its so distant in my mind you might as well be talking about the Huns invading America. And I know that some people will say that's just because I'm white -- but isn't that what you (not you personally, the hypothetical "you") want? A white person to not see an issue with racial colors?

 

[Ramona]

In case what I said didn't make sense in words:

Darn you, RealityCheck! I can only rep you once!

Mumbai

 

[Joshi]

<quote removed by staff>

But no one's claiming that you're saying those things. What we (Or me, at least) are taking offense to is the fact that you're claiming that abortion is a bad thing even when not getting one will kill the mother, or that it's entirely the woman's fault if she gets raped and if that rape results in pregnancy, or that all rapists are apparently African-[nation] men who only rape white women in dark alleys.

No one here is claiming that a child who came from rape will have to be some sort of horrible burden upon the mother's life and soul. What we're claiming is that you're a racist, misoginistic (That means woman-hating, if you don't know)... person. (I really want to use a different word there, but I can't claim that others agree with it or even that it's allowed here, so :<)

 

[ARainySeptember]

But no one's claiming that you're saying those things. What we (Or me, at least) are taking offense to is the fact that you're claiming that abortion is a bad thing even when not getting one will kill the mother, or that it's entirely the woman's fault if she gets raped and if that rape results in pregnancy, or that all rapists are apparently African-[nation] men who only rape white women in dark alleys.

No one here is claiming that a child who came from rape will have to be some sort of horrible burden upon the mother's life and soul. What we're claiming is that you're a racist, misoginistic (That means woman-hating, if you don't know)... person. (I really want to use a different word there, but I can't claim that others agree with it or even that it's allowed here, so :<)

Since when did anti-abortion mean anti-women? And I don't remember anything about Uber's claims that all rapists are African? Or am I totally lost.

 

[ARainySeptember]

Okay now that I'm reading WAY back I see where y'all are coming from.

The whole dark alley and women having to carry around condoms to protect ourselves from evil men is a bit odd Uber. How old are you, 12?

 

[RestlessRoots]

Since when did anti-abortion mean anti-women? And I don't remember anything about Uber's claims that all rapists are African? Or am I totally lost.

Back in this earlier post, Uber did indeed imply that all rapists are of races other than the women they rape. Later on in this one he makes a very racist statement that points to his dislike of/disrespect for people of African heritage. Doing the math with both of these posts taken together leads to the conclusion that Uber thinks that all or at least most rapes are committed by blacks, and committed upon non-black women.

 

[RestlessRoots]

Ah, I see you were looking for his words too.

 

[RealityCheck]

Okay now that I'm reading WAY back I see where y'all are coming from.

The whole dark alley and women having to carry around condoms to protect ourselves from evil men is a bit odd Uber. How old are you, 12?

I would've guessed 14-15, but the scary thing is - there really are adult males that think this way. (And I mean "adult" only in the biological sense.)

 

[suzybeezy]

Threads on this topic can often get heated. A brief thread clean up has occured to remove flaming remarks. Please keep the discussion civil.

2.1 No Flaming

You will not "flame" other members or groups of members. Flaming includes, but is not limited to:
- Ridiculing, insulting, or demeaning another member or group of members;
- Ridiculing another member's beliefs;
- Ridiculing public figures important to another's religious beliefs;
- Stating or implying that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian;
- Calling or describing other people, groups, belief-systems, or ideas as heresy or a cult (or derivatives of these words). Instead of using these emotionally charged words, please state "X is wrong because of Y" rather than using these words in polemical discussion;
- Asking loaded questions that directly cause flames in response;
- Using sarcasm to attempt any of the above; and
- Threats of any sort, including advocating or supporting physical or mental harm against another living creature (this creature clause does not apply to political discussions of military action, hunting/fishing discussions nor ethical discussions of capital punishment).

 

[Nathan Poe]

I believe in sterilization for women who do not want children and want to have sex without marriage. That would solve four problems.

1) clinical abortion
2) non-clinical abortions
3) unwanted babies
4) over population

Out of curiousity, Nip, are you familiar with A Modest Proposal by Johnathan Swift? I think you would find it a good read.

Of course, the difference is, he was joking.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Interesting... only an extremely low percentage of raped women conceive after the act. Abortion should be legal (over the board) because of an extremely rare situation?

Well ACTUALLY... the reason why rape has a low conception rate is because of universal prescription of emergency contraception...

There is evidence to show that rape is MORE likely to result in conception than sex with a regular partner...

From an evolutionary standpoint this makes sense, as it increases the mixuing of the gene pool, and selects for traits of strength and dominance... one of the nice things about Westernised society is we don't have to obey our basest primitive urges to survive anymore

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper
I believe in sterilization for women who do not want children and want to have sex without marriage. That would solve four problems.

1) clinical abortion
2) non-clinical abortions
3) unwanted babies
4) over population

Well I believe in REVERSABLE sterilisation handed out to all 16 year old girls, implanon or similar... however, littlenippers rather blinkered POV fails to realise that:
1. Clinical abortion can be an option chosen by married couples faced with an unwanted or invalid child
2. Non-clinical abortion is utilised by women, both married and unmarried, when clinical abortions are not available
3. Unwanted babies are common even from married couples, indeed "I never wanted the kid in the first place" is the leading excuse among abusive parents, both married and unmarried
4. Overpopulation is almost exclusively the preserve of married couples. Check your stats, unmarried mothers rarely have more than 1 child, and very rarely have more than 2. I can virtually guarantee you that if you know of any family with more than 4 children , they are the children of a married couple. Now sure, there ARE exceptions to the rule, but I promise you, for every single mother with 3 children, I can find you a married couple with 6.

So unfortunately, the real world clashes with little nippers idea of reality

 

[bullman121]

Uh anti.

 

[Yasa]

Just a little side note;

RealityCheck, I wish more Christians...actually no, screw that, more PEOPLE were like you. You are a very credibly and intelligent person, I commend you for that. I never thought I'd see a Christian person use the "Help, we're oppressed" pie chart before. Mind you, I am well aware of many many people outside of fundie-religions, it's just refreshing to see them with such a loud voice.