Behold

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The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.
 

AllDayFaith

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I agree with you, the enemy will try to convince you that you need to do something in order to be saved. Like donate money, or pray for hours on end. There is no works we can do to earn God's grace or gift of salvation. We are saved through faith.
 
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Amittai

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I am greedy and spurn any zero sum! "If you say you have faith show me the colour of your Holy Spirit powered works worthy of your repentance" (running together the Baptist & James, with several Parables). (To repent, means that we stopped looking meanly at others ;) .)

Faith = faithfulness, as He is faithful in His works. To "crucify the flesh" means exactly to not fall back on a worldly mindset, as if God were a stingy taskmaster. Who knows how tough our last minutes will be? Do we not want, above all, His providence as well as a crown from our Holy Spirit fuelled persistence in interceding (and the latter I do simply, under my breath, as long as I keep remembering)?

I used to mix with cynical & melodramatic grinders-down who despised others' "cross", but what I personally believe in is that thankfulness for other church members' individuality and the circumstances they are gifted with, is part of where His support for me comes through.
 
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Behold

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I agree with you, the enemy will try to convince you that you need to do something in order to be saved. Like donate money, or pray for hours on end. There is no works we can do to earn God's grace or gift of salvation. We are saved through faith.

God came to this world, as Jesus The Christ, to solve an eternal issue we have.
We have NO RIGHTEOUSNESS.
ALL The Commandments combined and kept can't give it, and the Law is what judges you to be a sinner.....So, you can imagine the mess a "christian" gets into, theologically and spiritually, if they are straining at the NT trying to find a verse or 3 that they can misunderstand that they believe seem to be telling their self righteousness nature...."see, that one says you have to DO this to stay saved"......
Yet, can all the Torah keeping, and enduring to the end, and water baptism, and church membership, and commandment keeping..and giving to the poor, and giving your body to be burned as a martyr...give you righteousness? Can any of this MAKE YOU RIGHTEOUS. = NOPE.
If it could, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and spared Himself a savage beating, an indescribable scourging, and a horrible horrible. crucifixion.
Notice he didnt....

So, i guess God was correct when He stated that He "found fault with the OLD TESTAMENT and the OLD COVENANT, and all those COMMANDMENTS AND LAWS....= as they could not give you any righteousness.
Not in the OT and not in '2030.

Today, you have "christians" who are disputing that, and will show you all their self effort using a few misused verses to try to tell everyone they can subvert that if you dont do all that stuff that God found fault with 2000 yrs ago, then you will "lose your salvation"...

SO, After God said He found fault with the commandments and the law, because they cant make you righteous by keeping all of them, (which you can't do), and are judged by the law for not keeping them = SINNER....... He then sent Jesus to the Cross to write a new Covenant and a New Testament in God's own blood. (Jesus is God). And this New Testament, testifies that the shed Blood of God (Jesus on the Cross) will redeem you from your sin, and that this Gospel when preached and believed by FAITH is what God will only accept to then justify you by your FAITH. "Faith is counted as Righteousness". = "This is the GIFT of God".

Amazing that 2000+ yrs after the Cross and the Risen Lord went back to Glory, you have "christians' that are still hanging themselves on their cross of self righteousness, and trying to get you up on your yours.

Thank you JESUS< that its not by our works of righteousness, but by God's GRACE that we are saved thru Faith, and kept saved, BY GOD.

Philippians 1:6 :

"God, who Himself began your salvation in you..(born again) will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it".

Salvation was completed on the Cross.
We get it as a Gift and God makes certain its completed.
"my eternal hope is built on nothing less, then Jesus's blood and righteousness".


Blessings,

<B><
 
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ViaCrucis

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I am on the cross with Jesus, as the Apostle says, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2:20). This precious truth is mine by the grace of God, through faith, it is God's own Word to me which I can be confident of on account of my baptism, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives." (Romans 6:3-4)

It is not by works, it is not by my power, strength, or ability; for I am nothing and have nothing. But rather, God has accomplished everything, through Christ who died and rose again. And now I am the benefactor of Christ's work, by the grace of God, who gives me all His good and perfect gifts. By the working of God Himself, through His Word and Sacraments, He takes hold of me and makes me His own. For His Word goes forth and accomplishes what He decrees it to accomplish, never returning to Him void (Isaiah 55:11), the very Word preached and proclaimed by which comes the pure gift of faith (Romans 10:17, Ephesians 2:8-9), the same Word with which we were washed in the waters of Holy Baptism (Ephesians 5:26) by which we were born again (John 3:5, Titus 3:5) and received the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38-39).

This is God's work, not mine. Not by works of the Law or works of the flesh, not by the strength or will of man, but by the will and working of God alone (John 1:12-13).

And by this working of God alone, by His grace, granting me faith, He gives me, as pure gift, the alien righteousness of Jesus Christ, imputed to me, by which I am clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27) and freely justified, indeed, can be called the righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). For Christ Himself is our righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Behold

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I am on the cross with Jesus, as the Apostle says, "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.
-CryptoLutheran

Jesus is no longer on the Cross.
So, neither are you.
You are "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST", and "as Jesus IS, so are we in this world".
He's not on the tree any longer, which is why Paul said that He is in the Heart.

So where are you?
You are wherever Jesus is, now and forever, and He is RISEN.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Jesus is no longer on the Cross.
So, neither are you.
You are "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST", and "as Jesus IS, so are we in this world".
He's not on the tree any longer, which is why Paul said that He is in the Heart.

So where are you?
You are wherever Jesus is, now and forever, and He is RISEN.

Correct. And yet what does the Apostle say?

"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." - 1 Corinthians 2:2

What else does he say?

"But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." - Galatians 6:14

And what else?

"But we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and folly to the Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

Christ is risen, Alleluia!

That doesn't mean we treat the cross as though it were merely something in the past. The cross is the reality to which we have been called, the truth of who we are in Jesus as the people who are dead to the world and alive to God.

It is because I am found in Christ, on the cross with Him, that I share in the life which He has by the power of His resurrection.

The cross is not the antithesis of His resurrection. Christ is the Victor over death by His death and resurrection. Which is why the Church sings,

"Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down death by death,
And to those in the tombs,
Bestowing life.
" - The Paschal Troparion

It is this divine paradox, that He who suffers and dies is the Victor over these very things. As St. Augustine says, Victor quia Victima, Christ is Victor because He is the Victim.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Behold

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Correct. And yet what does the Apostle say?

"For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." - 1 Corinthians 2:2

What else does he say?

"But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." - Galatians 6:14

And what else?


-CryptoLutheran

Our old man, prior to be born again, that was under the law, is now risen in Newness of Life, and contains Eternal Life.
Jesus IS eternal Life, and If we have Him, we have eternal life. 1 John 5:13.
Paul said that he was not sent to baptize (water) but to Preach "the Cross & Christ crucified".

The Cross is the "power of God", because it yields the shed blood and the sacrificial death of our Holy sin bearer.
There is Eternal Power in the Blood of the Lamb that redeems us from our sin AND the power of sin, and into eternal "ONENESS" with God and Christ.
All that call on the Name of The Lord, by Faith, having received Christ as Savior, shall be redeemed by the blood of Jesus, as there is no other way to God. John 14:6

Jesus entered Heaven, after He was resurrected, "having OBTAINED Eternal Redemption for US".
We dont do that. We cant do that. And if someone here is trying to do that, then look right now at your nail scarred wrists and pierced side and whip scourged back and face that is "marred beyond recognition"...
If you dont have those, then get off the Cross, and starting right now..... never give anyone but Jesus THE CHRIST ALL THE CREDIT DO HIM ALONE FOR SAVING YOU AND KEEPING YOU SAVED.
The Cross is where the law was nailed and Grace was delivered to the World as "the gift of righteousness" thru the Blood of Jesus, and your blood need not apply, reader, if you are the one i'm talking to..
Did you take my test? Did you pass it?

Its like this, Reader..... if a believer is trying to save themselves by their lifestyle, or if they believe they can lose their salvation UNLESS they PERFORM to be accepted by God....., then they have kicked Jesus The Christ off the Nails, and have nailed themselves to the Cross using the Law and the Commandments, generally.
To find yourself up on the Cross as a born again believer happened just as soon as you stopped believing that Christ alone keeps you saved and you started thinking that you had to do something to stay saved.

"You are not under the Law, but Under GRACE". And this means, as long as you are not trying to keep yourself saved by your self effort, you are "under Grace". But if you have your little scripture pack that you have concluded is now what you must PERFORM to keep yourself saved, then that scripture pack has now become your false Savior, as you are trusting in IT, to keep you saved. If you have gone there, theologically and spiritually, then you are "walking in the Flesh". "Flesh" is another NT term for "self effort" regarding the context of Salvation.
"walking in the Flesh", does not me being backslidden, its mean you have turned the Cross into your own throne of self righteousness.

Grace, is God on the Cross as Jesus the Messiah offering "justification by Faith", as : "to those who worketh not but BELIEVETH on Him who Justifies the Ungodly" = thru the Blood of Jesus.

"Falling from Grace" is to submit to carnal self righteousness that replaces the Cross with Self Effort.
Thats "walking in the Flesh".
There are many Christians and non, who are Grace Deniers, whose main ministry is to try to chop down the cross by using the commandments, or verses that they misuse against the Blood Atonement to try to prove you have to keep yourself saved by doing something OF Yourself.

Reader...If you are that person, then when you answered my 2 Questions, your only answer was not "JESUS" and that is because you are Not trusting in Christ alone to keep you saved and get you to heaven.
Preaching or Teaching this "self effort" as the way to "stay saved", is to find yourself under a Curse, as provided by Paul in Galatians 1:8, and this is the only curse that you as a born again Christian can find yourself under.
And why does this happen?
Well, you did it to yourself, or your commentary did it to you, or your Minister or Pastor or similar did it to you, or your Seminar did it to you, or your Local Church or Denominational "statement of faith" did it to you. Maybe your buddies on a Christian Forum led you to into this spiritual darkness.
And if you teach or preach the same.... that self effort is required to stay saved, which insults Christ's blood sacrifice and denies the Grace of God, then you have gone to a spiritual place within your own faith, that is cursed.
Thats a biggie.
So, prove yourself that you be "IN THE FAITH"< and not on the Cross.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Our old man, prior to be born again, that was under the law, is now risen in Newness of Life, and contains Eternal Life.
Jesus IS eternal Life, and If we have Him, we have eternal life. 1 John 5:13.
Paul said that he was not sent to baptize (water) but to Preach "the Cross & Christ crucified".

The new man is what I have received, through faith, for "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Corinthians 5:17), but this is what has been received through faith. I remain, in the sinfulness of my flesh, a mortal, dead, dying thing. I have no righteousness of myself, but only the righteousness of Christ. Christ is my only righteousness.

This tension between the old man and the new is what St. Paul discusses in Romans ch. 7, that the good he desires to do he does not do, and the evil he does not want to do he does. The Law is good, and yet is condemns us in our flesh. The Law does not cease to condemn us in our flesh, for the Law is good and spiritual, but I am evil and carnal. That is why my good works do not profit me anything before God.

If this were not so, then I would no longer sin and I would have attained that glory and perfection which we long and hope for already, but that is not yet ours except as gift and promise, received through faith. Or, as the Apostle puts it,

"Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For His sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as dung, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and may share His sufferings, becoming like Him in His death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me His own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
" - Philippians 3:8-16

See that there is the now and not yet, these both in tension. That there is what we have received through faith, ours in Christ, as gift; not that we have already obtained that glorious possession toward which we long and hope, but we push onward, for what Christ has obtained for us already we push forward.

The Cross is the "power of God", because it yields the shed blood and the sacrificial death of our Holy sin bearer.
There is Eternal Power in the Blood of the Lamb that redeems us from our sin AND the power of sin, and into eternal "ONENESS" with God and Christ.
All that call on the Name of The Lord, by Faith, having received Christ as Savior, shall be redeemed by the blood of Jesus, as there is no other way to God. John 14:6

And this is He who said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." (John 6:53)

Our faith in Christ, our life in Him, is a present tense reality which is being worked upon us by God. It is the ever-present working of the Spirit, through God's works and gifts, in which we have life. That is why, yes, there is absolutely power in the blood of Christ; and that very blood is made available to you and to me in His precious Supper, the Holy Eucharist. For this reason Christ says, "This is My body, which given for you, do this for the remembrance of Me" and "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you." (Luke 22:20-21) So, as the Apostle says, "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." (1 Corinthians 11:26).

This Supper is given to us that we might avail ourselves to it, for here Christ Himself, the One who suffered, bled, and died for us, and who rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father in the glory of His kingdom is truly present. So that we receive this very flesh and blood. By the grace of God this is true, not by human reason, tradition, or vain philosophy, but by the Word of Christ these things are true. Why would Christ invite us to come and partake of Him unless it were necessary that we, indeed, be in Him?

We do not surpass the Cross, we revel in the scandal of the cross, we boast in it, we rejoice in it. Because it is here that God has defeated all powers, rulers, authorities, and principalities. Here the devil is bound, hell is ransacked and overturned, death is destroyed, our sins are forgiven, the charges against us pardoned, and we have peace with God and life everlasting. It is on account of this Cross that we have life with God.

Jesus entered Heaven, after He was resurrected, "having OBTAINED Eternal Redemption for US".
We dont do that. We cant do that. And if someone here is trying to do that, then look right now at your nail scarred wrists and pierced side and whip scourged back and face that is "marred beyond recognition"...
If you dont have those, then get off the Cross, and starting right now..... never give anyone but Jesus THE CHRIST ALL THE CREDIT DO HIM ALONE FOR SAVING YOU AND KEEPING YOU SAVED.
The Cross is where the law was nailed and Grace was delivered to the World as "the gift of righteousness" thru the Blood of Jesus, and your blood need not apply, reader, if you are the one i'm talking to..
Did you take my test? Did you pass it?

I find the idea of a "test" fairly distasteful here. Yes, the work is done and accomplished, Christ has accomplished everything already for us, and it is what He has accomplished that we receive as pure grace--as gift--apart from ourselves.

Which is precisely the point I'm trying to make here. We do not move beyond the cross, we glory and boast in it. Here is Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior, for you and for me, indeed, for the whole world. It is the finished, once-and-done, perfect work of Jesus Christ.

Its like this, Reader..... if a believer is trying to save themselves by their lifestyle, or if they believe they can lose their salvation UNLESS they PERFORM to be accepted by God....., then they have kicked Jesus The Christ off the Nails, and have nailed themselves to the Cross using the Law and the Commandments, generally.
To find yourself up on the Cross as a born again believer happened just as soon as you stopped believing that Christ alone keeps you saved and you started thinking that you had to do something to stay saved.

"You are not under the Law, but Under GRACE". And this means, as long as you are not trying to keep yourself saved by your self effort, you are "under Grace". But if you have your little scripture pack that you have concluded is now what you must PERFORM to keep yourself saved, then that scripture pack has now become your false Savior, as you are trusting in IT, to keep you saved. If you have gone there, theologically and spiritually, then you are "walking in the Flesh". "Flesh" is another NT term for "self effort" regarding the context of Salvation.
"walking in the Flesh", does not me being backslidden, its mean you have turned the Cross into your own throne of self righteousness.

Grace, is God on the Cross as Jesus the Messiah offering "justification by Faith", as : "to those who worketh not but BELIEVETH on Him who Justifies the Ungodly" = thru the Blood of Jesus.

"Falling from Grace" is to submit to carnal self righteousness that replaces the Cross with Self Effort.
Thats "walking in the Flesh".
There are many Christians and non, who are Grace Deniers, whose main ministry is to try to chop down the cross by using the commandments, or verses that they misuse against the Blood Atonement to try to prove you have to keep yourself saved by doing something OF Yourself.

Reader...If you are that person, then when you answered my 2 Questions, your only answer was not "JESUS" and that is because you are not trusting in Christ to keep you saved and get you to heaven.
Preaching or Teaching this "self effort" as the way to "stay saved", is to find yourself under a Curse, as provided by Paul in Galatians 1:8, and this is the only curse that you as a born again Christian can find yourself under.
And why does this happen?
Well, you did it to yourself, or your commentary did it to you, or your Minister or Pastor or similar did it to you, or your Seminar did it to you, or your Local Church or Denominational "statement of faith" did it to you. Maybe your buddies on a Christian Forum led you to into this spiritual darkness.
And if you teach or preach the same.... that self effort is required to stay saved, which insults Christ's blood sacrifice and denies the Grace of God, then you have gone to a spiritual place within your own faith, that is cursed.
Thats a biggie.
So, prove yourself that you be "IN THE FAITH"< and not on the Cross.


<B><

What part of "Jesus has done everything" would lead you to think I believe in "self effort"?

Are you even bothering to read what I've been writing in my posts?

The whole reason I chose to respond to this thread is because it is my experience that, very frequently, people like to come and say, "We are saved by grace alone through faith" and then deny the very power, gifts, and works of God and, instead, substitute the works of God with human works.

Such people say, "Baptism does nothing" thereby denying the grace and work of God. And then, out of the other side of the mouth add their own human efforts, saying, "You must accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior."

It is this false gospel that I wish to denounce here, and instead preach the pure gospel of God's grace. That salvation is the work of God alone, entirely apart from human effort.

When you then make a false dichotomy between "are you in the faith or on the cross?" It certainly comes across as a deeply, deeply problematic statement. It is a false dichotomy: Faith IS cleaving to the cross of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Behold

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The new man is what I have received, through faith, for "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Corinthians 5:17), but this is what has been received through faith. I remain, in the sinfulness of my flesh, a mortal, dead, dying thing. I have no righteousness of myself, but only the righteousness of Christ. Christ is my only righteousness.

This tension between the old man and the new is what St. Paul discusses in Romans ch. 7, that the good he desires to do he does not do, and the evil he does not want to do he does. The Law is good, and yet is condemns us in our flesh. The Law does not cease to condemn us in our flesh, for the Law is good and spiritual, but I am evil and carnal. That is why my good works do not profit me anything before God.

If this were not so, then I would no longer sin and I would have attained that glory and perfection which we long and hope for already, but that is not yet ours except as gift and promise, received through faith. Or, as the Apostle puts it,

"Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For His sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as dung, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and may share His sufferings, becoming like Him in His death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me His own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
" - Philippians 3:8-16

See that there is the now and not yet, these both in tension. That there is what we have received through faith, ours in Christ, as gift; not that we have already obtained that glorious possession toward which we long and hope, but we push onward, for what Christ has obtained for us already we push forward.



And this is He who said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." (John 6:53)

Our faith in Christ, our life in Him, is a present tense reality which is being worked upon us by God. It is the ever-present working of the Spirit, through God's works and gifts, in which we have life. That is why, yes, there is absolutely power in the blood of Christ; and that very blood is made available to you and to me in His precious Supper, the Holy Eucharist. For this reason Christ says, "This is My body, which given for you, do this for the remembrance of Me" and "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you." (Luke 22:20-21) So, as the Apostle says, "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." (1 Corinthians 11:26).

This Supper is given to us that we might avail ourselves to it, for here Christ Himself, the One who suffered, bled, and died for us, and who rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father in the glory of His kingdom is truly present. So that we receive this very flesh and blood. By the grace of God this is true, not by human reason, tradition, or vain philosophy, but by the Word of Christ these things are true. Why would Christ invite us to come and partake of Him unless it were necessary that we, indeed, be in Him?

We do not surpass the Cross, we revel in the scandal of the cross, we boast in it, we rejoice in it. Because it is here that God has defeated all powers, rulers, authorities, and principalities. Here the devil is bound, hell is ransacked and overturned, death is destroyed, our sins are forgiven, the charges against us pardoned, and we have peace with God and life everlasting. It is on account of this Cross that we have life with God.



I find the idea of a "test" fairly distasteful here. Yes, the work is done and accomplished, Christ has accomplished everything already for us, and it is what He has accomplished that we receive as pure grace--as gift--apart from ourselves.

Which is precisely the point I'm trying to make here. We do not move beyond the cross, we glory and boast in it. Here is Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior, for you and for me, indeed, for the whole world. It is the finished, once-and-done, perfect work of Jesus Christ.



What part of "Jesus has done everything" would lead you to think I believe in "self effort"?

Are you even bothering to read what I've been writing in my posts?

The whole reason I chose to respond to this thread is because it is my experience that, very frequently, people like to come and say, "We are saved by grace alone through faith" and then deny the very power, gifts, and works of God and, instead, substitute the works of God with human works.

Such people say, "Baptism does nothing" thereby denying the grace and work of God. And then, out of the other side of the mouth add their own human efforts, saying, "You must accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior."

It is this false gospel that I wish to denounce here, and instead preach the pure gospel of God's grace. That salvation is the work of God alone, entirely apart from human effort.

When you then make a false dichotomy between "are you in the faith or on the cross?" It certainly comes across as a deeply, deeply problematic statement. It is a false dichotomy: Faith IS cleaving to the cross of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

You asked me if i read what you are writing..
And, i read most of the first response, but not as much of the 2nd.
The reason is, my Thread is dealing with people who are trying to save themselves or keep themselves saved by works and performance, and self effort, and lifestyle, and your response to my Thread has very little to do with my Thread's topic.
You are writing about the communion, which has nothing to do with my Thread's Topic, and about Christ living thru us, which has nothing to do with my Thread's topic, and thats all fine and good, but, my Thread's topic has nothing at all to do with your responses.
If you care to change that, then we could probably have a good conversation.
And if you find my 2 Questions to be "distasteful", then i can only wonder why, as they are certainly valid and useful for anyone who has been trapped into a mindset that has either not understood the Grace of God, or has "fallen from Grace".
 
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1213

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...The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". ....

And faith means one is faithful/loyal to God. What do you think person does, if he is loyal to God?
 
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And faith means one is faithful/loyal to God. What do you think person does, if he is loyal to God?

Hello 1213,

nice to hear from you.

You asked me how a person should behave, if they are loyal-faithful to God.
Well, what i believe is that we should love God back with our lives and not just with our lips.
That our very lives should be a love gift BACK to God the Father and Jesus The Christ.

However, this is discipleship. Its our self effort to try to please God, and its what we do BECAUSE we are saved and not to try to BE SAVED or STAY Saved.
Think of this.... Everything that you can do, as a Christian, you can do as an unbeliever.
An unbeliever, many of them, try to keep the commandments, and many go to church. They have read the words of Jesus and they try to love their neighbor as themselves. Some of them were talked into being water baptized, yet they were never born again, first. = they are still unsaved... baptized but unsaved.

So, an unsaved person, can do the very same works that a born again person can do, and yet, the unsaved person will not go to heaven after they die, and that is because God does not accept our works to accept us.. or keep us.
He only accepts what Jesus did for us on the Cross, this blood sacrifice, and death, and resurrection.
God accepts THAT = as "Salvation", then He offers what Jesus gained as "the gift of righteousness" to anyone who will give God their FAITH In Christ. John 3:16
Salvation is God saving you and me, based only on what Jesus did.
WE are "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb", we are not redeemed by the commandments and lifestyle we keep. Anyone can do that, but not just anyone has been BORN AGAIN.
Being Born Again, is the only PROOF of Salvation that is valid proof.
Everything else is self effort that any unbeliever can do as their personal lifestyle.
 
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1213

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....Salvation is God saving you and me, based only on what Jesus did.
WE are "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb", we are not redeemed by the commandments and lifestyle we keep. Anyone can do that, but not just anyone has been BORN AGAIN.
Being Born Again, is the only PROOF of Salvation that is valid proof.
Everything else is self effort that any unbeliever can do as their personal lifestyle.

I agree that we are not saved by our own works. And I have understood salvation means sins are forgiven. And Jesus had right to forgive even before his death and so it is by his words (Luke 5:21-25). And if we are born again, of God, we are righteous.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
 
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He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:7-10

You are not righteous, if you do righteous works.
Trying to be a clone of Jesus, never saved anyone.
So, that verse, is symbolic, and more....

"The WORK of God, is that YOU BELIEVE on the One whom God sent".

So, see how the bible poses - yet cloaks that spiritual reality? It says that you trusting in Christ, is "GOD's Work."
That's interesting isn't it, Reader.
Its saying that the only work of God, is YOU Trusting in Christ. But, that is not quite what the verse means..
So, do you see the layers of mystical/spiritual that you have to go thru to get to the revealed LIGHT? And many verses in the Bible are exactly like this, and that is why so many Christians are as confused as a Monkey in a Mall. As they understand it completely WRONG,= because they don't know how to spiritually discern anything, much less the words of God.
That verse is teaching that there is only ONE WORK that God accepts from you, to save you.
And its not commandment keeping, or enduring to the end, or keeping the Torah.
The one WORK OF GOD that you are to COMPLETE= is to TRUST IN HIS SON.
Thats "Salvation".
 
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BNR32FAN

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The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.


The words faith, believe, and believer are all actually 3 different forms of the same Greek word pistis. Faith or pistis being the noun, believe or pisteuo being the verb, and believer or pistos being the adjective. The Greek words pisteuo (believe) pistos (believer) pistis (faith) all imply a certain level of faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty in their definition. These have to do with an individual’s motivation for salvation. Notice in the definition below there’s a number 1 in front of the first 3 descriptions for the word pisteuo, that’s because all three of these descriptions are included in the primary definition.


believe


G4100


Lemma:


πιστεύω


Transliteration:


pisteúō


Pronounce:


pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:


Verb


Language:


greek


Description:


1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed


1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference


1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul


2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith


3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith


2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing


believers


G4103


Lemma:


πιστός


Transliteration:


pistós


Pronounce:


pis-tos'


Part of Speech:


Adjective


Language:


greek


Description:


1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on


2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises


1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead


2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation


faith


G4102


Lemma:


πίστις


Transliteration:


pístis


Pronounce:


pis'-tis


Part of Speech:


Noun Feminine


Language:


greek


Description:


1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God


1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ


1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same


2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on


This does not mean that our works in any way play a role in our salvation but the motivation behind those works is what counts. Is our desire self serving or God serving. Does is stem from a selfish desire like self righteousness and recognition or does it stem from love for others and love for God. Those who believe in Christ and desire to do good works out of love for God and others will be saved despite their imperfections but those who do good works as a means to earn self righteousness will not be saved regardless of whether they believe in Christ or not because the scriptures say that those who seek to justify themselves thru their works have denied the necessity of Christ’s sacrifice.


So when you view the word pisteuo as only pertaining to the definition of the English word believe verses like John 15:1-10 don’t make any sense because it completely eliminates any inner conviction or desire to actually serve God as being a necessity for receiving salvation. If a person has this inner conviction and desire to serve God then he will bear fruit and so long as he keeps this inner conviction he will abide in Christ. Simply acknowledging that Christ existed without any desire to serve God will save no one. This is why the definition of the English word believe does not fit the context of the scriptures and appears to contradict other verses.
 
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The NT tells you, if you are born again, to be "in the faith".....to make certain of this....
2nd Corinthians 13:5
It does not tell you to be "IN the commandments" or "IN the law", or anything that has to do with performance or self effort .. as how to be "IN the FAITH".
Jesus gave you some commandments, but you can do those and be water baptised and not even be born again, and many lost tho devout religious people are practicing the words of Jesus while never being born again... (and that wont save you).

The reason it says to be "in the Faith", is because you are "justified by Faith", and "its impossible to please God without FAITH". And "the work of God is that you believe on the one (by Faith) whom God SENT".

Salvation is "Grace THRU Faith...without works," = NO commandment keeping, enduring to the end, water baptism, keeping the Torah, or anything else that JESUS DIDN'T Do on the Cross to SAVE YOU..

Do you want to know if you are in the faith OR if you are stuck in your own self righteousness and personal Cross rejecting Legalism.?
Lets find out what God already knows about you, that might come as a really big surprise to you.

I can show you how you can find out if you are on the Cross trying to save yourself, or if Jesus is on the Cross and you have faith alone In Him (Salvation) to get you into heaven.

Are you ready to face the truth about yourself?
Are you ready to find out if you are in the Faith, or if you are on the Cross?
Self Deception is perfectly shattered right where true personal discovery actually starts.

Here are the 2 Questions....... and be HONEST.

1.) If you knew you were going to die, in 2 mins......What are you trusting in right NOW, .... To get you to Heaven ? ????

2.) Who or what are you trusting in, to KEEP YOU SAVED ?


Your answers prove if you are in the faith, or if you are hanging on your own cross, and have become a "self saver".... A Legalist.....someone who trying by self effort to do only what Christ alone has DONE on The Cross FOR YOU, as "the Free Gift of salvation" "the gift of Righteousness".

So, are you on the Cross trying to keep yourself saved? Are you trying to keep yourself saved by YOUR WORKS and EFFORT and PERFORMANCE and commandment keeping and all that Self Performance stuff? IF so, you are NOT in the Faith.

How about abiding in Christ? Do we need to abide in Christ to receive salvation?
 
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