Are you horrified by any Scripture?

[Vicomte13]

I agree to the extent that I don't believe cancer, famine et al represent the desire of God; they are environmental conditions resulting from the contamination of sin. Which can manifest itself, for example, in persons, driven by greed, dumping toxic chemicals of a carcinogenic nature.

If corporate or indeed governmental negligence results in the spill of a carcinogen, and one contracts cancer and dies, I do not believe it is correct to blame it on God. The wages of sin are death, but the wages of one's particular sins are not neccessarily their particular death, as evinced by, for example, murder.

Aids is a virus, a specific form of life. Typhus is a virus, a specific species of life. E. coli is a common bacteria, very specific species of life. Malaria is the larval stage of a certain insect.

Who created these lives and gave them their specific hosts and specific purposes?

When the Israelites disregarded God, they were attacked by stinging seraph serpents - poisonous snakes. God gave them one way to live: look at the bronze serpent that Moses mounted aloft. Look at that and live. Otherwise, die, from the venom of snakes that God made, and that God specifically sent to specifically sting - and kill - the Israelites, specifically, because they disobeyed him.

The stinging seraphs were not accidents. They were beings created by God (as all life is, including typhus viruses), and they were sent for the PURPOSE of killing Israelites, unless those specific Israelites followed a specific rite that God commanded as the only way they could save themselves. You're stung by deadly serpents I made, and I sicced upon you to punish. You're bitten and you shall die, in pain, right now, unless you knuckle under and do EXACTLY WHAT I COMMANDED, without turning to the left or the right. You will look right at my bronze serpent held aloft, or I will proceed with your painful death through the venom of the poisonous snakes that I, God, made and specifically set upon you, specifically to force you to choose between a specific abject genuflection to my power, following my rule exactly.

Eat the fruit once and die. Fail to look at the serpent after the snakes I sent to sting you, sting you, and die.

God is like that. He's always like that.

What happens to blasphemers, liars, idolators, murderers and the sexually immoral, along with pharmakons? Jesus said that they fail final judgment and are thrown to their deaths into the Lake of Fire, by God, at final judgment. And he said that twice on the last page of Scripture.

God is the source of all life, but death is his enforcement mechanism. Death is not some accident that crept into the world - it is a physical process commanded by God for disobedience. God does not wish people's deaths, but because people do not obey, he is the ultimate source of death. The wage of sin is death. We all sin. And we all die. Period.

But we need not fear that which kills our bodies. We DO need to fear him who can kill us body AND spirit - and that is Jesus, seated on the judgment seat. Final spiritual death is administered DIRECTLY by the DIRECT HAND of God, as the result of a direct command from God, to throw the sinner's spirit into the Lake of Fire, which God created, in order to utterly kill sinners who will not repent and obey.

The notion that God is not the source of both physical and spiritual death is wrong. He is.

The good news is that he gives us a way out.
But he imposed death and the uniqueness of that way out to make it clear that, in the end you will OBEY God and please him, or he will kill you himself.

That's what he revealed, from Eden to Revelation. I don't know why people feel the need to try to change what he said and did. I think it's because maybe people don't really believe in God. They hope, but they don't believe enough to actually take God completely seriously and to understand that all Adam and Eve did was eat one piece of fruit, and God killed them for it, without the chance of repentance. God is much harder than moderns seem to want to acknowledge.

The good news is that he's going to kill each and every one of us, and then we get to see, and perhaps then understand better.

By becoming a Christian we do not evade the physical death that God ordained for our sins. We still pay for our sins with the pain of death. But our SPIRIT becomes clean and has a better time of it AFTER physical death. That's what our religion does.

God may ALSO make things better for us in this physical life, but there's no guarantee of that. He didn't spare Jesus one thing, after all. We who are sinners should not expect better.

I think we are all better off if we realize how things are, and that is how they are.

 

[Germatria1128]

What Vicomte13 is saying here is clear, penetrating and insightful. His analysis is very apparently rooted in scripture and his conclusions are as near the Truth as I understand it myself.

While God can choose to be merciful, He is also the God that killed Moses OUTSIDE the Promised Land, without letting him enter. He's the God that allowed Job a host of horrors. And He's also the God who permitted His Only Begotten Son a HORRIBLY painful physical death.

As the band Jethro Tull sings in "Bungle in the Jungle": The rivers are full of crocodile nasties, and He who made kittens put snakes in the grass." Indeed. And best we realize that with steel-eyed clarity.

 

[redleghunter]

What Vicomte13 is saying here is clear, penetrating and insightful. His analysis is very apparently rooted in scripture and his conclusions are as near the Truth as I understand it myself.

While God can choose to be merciful, He is also the God that killed Moses OUTSIDE the Promised Land, without letting him enter. He's the God that allowed Job a host of horrors. And He's also the God who permitted His Only Begotten Son a HORRIBLY painful physical death.

As the band Jethro Tull sings in "Bungle in the Jungle": The rivers are full of crocodile nasties, and He who made kittens put snakes in the grass." Indeed. And best we realize that with steel-eyed clarity.

To highlight these penetrating comments is the Awesomeness of God as He is patient and longsuffering not wanting anyone to perish. The Sacred Scriptures demonstrate God's Holiness and that He offers His Grace and Peace to those who come to Him as repentant damned destitute sinners in seeking salvation.

Praise be to God!

 

[Germatria1128]

To highlight these penetrating comments is the Awesomeness of God as He is patient and longsuffering not wanting anyone to perish. The Sacred Scriptures demonstrate God's Holiness and that He offers His Grace and Peace to those who come to Him as repentant damned destitute sinners in seeking salvation.

Praise be to God!

It is quite a marvel just how patient and longsuffering God is! I read the newspapers everyday, or watch the daily news broadcasts with all their horrors, and then fight anger and despair at the way we behave. Can you image what an all-seeing and all-knowing Father must have to suffer through in light of the wickedness and evil everywhere? What little "salt of the earth," or "light on a hill" behavior we can provide is perhaps a weak counterbalance---the Power of Christ is desperately needed.

Regarding the Father not wanting anyone to perish, the Bible does tell us that it is the will of God that ALL should be saved and that none should perish. And HOW can the WILL of God be blocked, defeated or fall short in the long run (e.g., for eternity)?
This is where the concept of universal salvation (ultimate forgiveness from the Father for everyone) pops up. I do not espouse universal salvation --- I take the warnings about Hell from Christ and the prophets very seriously!-- I just don't know. If in Revelation, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS -- does this result in universal salvation?! Revelation warns of the Lake of Fire so Justice seems to demand some price. But again, HOW CAN THE ULTIMATE WILL OF GOD --(ie NONE SHALL PERISH) be thwarted??? No other being has that power.

 

[Anto9us]

I know, Germatria -- kinda sounds like -- well, if God WANTS IT DONE -- who is gonna stop it?

(everybody being saved)

and yet, like you, I feel there is something out there -- whether a LITERAL "hell" or not...
that I need to avoid - by grace and works

 

[Germatria1128]

I know, Germatria -- kinda sounds like -- well, if God WANTS IT DONE -- who is gonna stop it?

(everybody being saved)

and yet, like you, I feel there is something out there -- whether a LITERAL "hell" or not...
that I need to avoid - by grace and works

Another interesting example of God / Christ withholding verbal condemnation / damnation is the Crucifixion scene. As we all know, Christ turned to the "Good Thief" and told him that today he would be in Paradise with him. But [according to the Gospels at least] he did not turn to the "Bad Thief" and tell him that he was condemned and would that day be in eternal damnation. Salvation was granted but damnation withheld [at least verbally].

 

[Achilles6129]

That makes it better, yes, but it's still troublesome that God asked Abraham to do something deeply evil. In most stories in the Bible, following God's command means doing what is good. This story is different.

God also commands the Israelites to execute their children for cursing them. There is, however, an entire theology around this sort of thing that has to be taken into account: Scripture always presents those who disobey God's commands as monstrously evil. When people trivialize disobedience to God's commands they end up being unable to comprehend these sorts of punishments.

 

[Vicomte13]

There is, however, an entire theology around this sort of thing that has to be taken into account

Yes. Most importantly, when God gave those laws to the Israelites, it was to a people that he was ruling DIRECTLY as King. God didn't set up any legislature or executive for Israel. There was a Levitical judiciary, but in the Torah God even specified the judgments they had to give to various cases, and laid out the rules of evidence and testimony. God gave the Israelites literally ALL of their laws, and didn't leave them with the ability to add, or to subtract, or to change, ANY aspect of the rules.

This people was His people, set apart in a specific land, to be an EXAMPLE to the rest of humanity of how people, following God's laws exactly, could have universal prosperity, peace and victory through divine favor.

Of course, even as he gave the laws he tested the Israelites and saw from the beginning that they were not going to actually obey. And so Israel also served as an EXAMPLE of something else: what happens when a people chosen by God choose to ignore God and NOT do as commanded. God promised to hound them and destroy them, and he did.

Being "chosen" was a double-edged sword. Eternal peace and prosperity, and a light unto the nations - an example of how a civil society obedient down to the deckplates to good laws could be. And an example also of how people, even with God visible in their presence, choose disobedience, and end up poisoning their own wells and destroying everything by their own hands. God sent the Assyrians and the Babylonians, later the Romans, to completely knock down the visible structure of Israel, but when they came they were knocking down a log that had already rotted from within.

Jesus didn't do the same thing with Christians. No longer was there a state, or a visible government edifice with the sword and laws. With Jesus, it just became became God and the individual man, not for a secure farm on earth, but for a room in God's City after death and resurrection. YHWH promised the Hebrews a farm. Jesus promised the human spirit immortality.

To get that farm, God demanded that the Israelites follow his patterns and be an example for all mankind. They didn't. Another people might have, but God didn't choose another people.

To get eternal life and a room in the City of God, one merely needs to follow Jesus, and quite unlike Adam and Eve and the fruit, Jesus promises forgiveness for just about everything, as long as there is true repentance, and as long as the penitent forgives other men their sins against him. This is not easy, but it's easier than what God demanded as the price of a farm.

 

[Germatria1128]

God also commands the Israelites to execute their children for cursing them. There is, however, an entire theology around this sort of thing that has to be taken into account: Scripture always presents those who disobey God's commands as monstrously evil. When people trivialize disobedience to God's commands they end up being unable to comprehend these sorts of punishments.

The discussion around God's command to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac reminds me of Bob Dylan's humorous lyrics to his song "Highway 61 Revisited." This is the album in 1965 when Bob Dylan "went electric," freaked out his folk fans, and released "Like a Rolling Stone," which changed modern music in a lot of ways. In the title song, Highway 61 Revisited, Dylan sings:

Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
Abe says, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
God say, “No.” Abe say, “What?”
God say, “You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin’ you better run”
Well Abe says, “Where do you want this killin’ done?”
God says, “Out on Highway 61”

In particular, the line where "God" says "You can do what you want Abe but next time you see me comin' you better run" always gets my smile* because of the truth behind it: YOU BETTER FEAR GOD.

*BTW Isn't the Hebrew meaning behind the name Isaac something like "makes me laugh"?!!!

 

[Vicomte13]

*BTW Isn't the Hebrew meaning behind the name Isaac something like "makes me laugh"?!!!

Yes. The Hebrew name "Yits'hhak" (as in Yits'hhak Rabin, or Yits'hhak ("Isaac") son of Abraham, literally means "He Laughs" (or, if you will, "He will laugh")

 

[Germatria1128]

Yes. The Hebrew name "Yits'hhak" (as in Yits'hhak Rabin, or Yits'hhak ("Isaac") son of Abraham, literally means "He Laughs" (or, if you will, "He will laugh")

As the Bible tells us, we are made in the image of God so I imagine that our emotions and other higher intelligence behaviors are somehow rooted in the Father. I can imagine the emotions of sadness, pity, love, hate, anger, etc. all springing from God but one of the hardest for me to imagine is God's sense of humor, or even that of Christ. In all the Scriptures / Gospels is there one story demonstrating the Father's / Christ's sense of humor?

Not that I expect silliness, goofing, funny irony or humor in the face of deadly serious spiritual truths, but it is interesting to think about! Isaac = The Son To Be Sacrificed = He Laughs.

 

[Germatria1128]

YHWH promised the Hebrews a farm

Let's see: So mankind went from gardeners [Eden] to farmers [Canaan] to greeters [WalMart Superstore]. The trend isn't good. Jesus was a carpenter which I always thought was a cool profession. Fits in well with the Father as a Creator and Builder.

 

[Vicomte13]

As the Bible tells us, we are made in the image of God so I imagine that our emotions and other higher intelligence behaviors are somehow rooted in the Father. I can imagine the emotions of sadness, pity, love, hate, anger, etc. all springing from God but one of the hardest for me to imagine is God's sense of humor, or even that of Christ. In all the Scriptures / Gospels is there one story demonstrating the Father's / Christ's sense of humor?

Not that I expect silliness, goofing, funny irony or humor in the face of deadly serious spiritual truths, but it is interesting to think about! Isaac = The Son To Be Sacrificed = He Laughs.

Jesus shows a sense of humor when he calls two of the bickering apostles "Boanerges" - "Sons of Thunder". It's an ironic name, because they keep debating with each other over who is greatest.

He also shows a sense of humor in his parable of the nettlesome woman who harrasses the corrupt judge so much that he gives judgment for her, just to make her go away.

There's humor of a sort in Jonah, when the gourd plant grows up and then dies, and Jonah in a pout would rather die than see that his missionary work in Nineveh was actually EFFECTIVE.

And of course the Creator made the camel. If you've ever been around camels, you know that they are the most absurd creature alive. They're funny looking, they can evert their throat and throw spit with it. The camel, the giraffe, the platypus and some of those bug-eyed creatures like lemurs and frogs are just funny to look at. And panda bears are so adorable that you can see God almost childlike in his delight at creating this and that, however weird and wonderful.

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus shows a sense of humor when he calls two of the bickering apostles "Boanerges" - "Sons of Thunder". It's an ironic name, because they keep debating with each other over who is greatest.

He also shows a sense of humor in his parable of the nettlesome woman who harrasses the corrupt judge so much that he gives judgment for her, just to make her go away.

There's humor of a sort in Jonah, when the gourd plant grows up and then dies, and Jonah in a pout would rather die than see that his missionary work in Nineveh was actually EFFECTIVE.

And of course the Creator made the camel. If you've ever been around camels, you know that they are the most absurd creature alive. They're funny looking, they can evert their throat and throw spit with it. The camel, the giraffe, the platypus and some of those bug-eyed creatures like lemurs and frogs are just funny to look at. And panda bears are so adorable that you can see God almost childlike in his delight at creating this and that, however weird and wonderful.

You are like a child sometimes Vic. That was a huge compliment.

Me too. I too see the personality of God in His creation.

"Snakes, look how easy they are to make...I'll make bunches!"


My favorite account is when Jesus allows the demons to inhabit the swine and they end up going over the cliff dying to be "homeless" again.

 

[Vicomte13]

I know, Germatria -- kinda sounds like -- well, if God WANTS IT DONE -- who is gonna stop it?

(everybody being saved)

and yet, like you, I feel there is something out there -- whether a LITERAL "hell" or not...
that I need to avoid - by grace and works

I'll tell you how I look at it.

I am very attentive to the word choices God uses when speaking of himself and when speaking of man. I note that God made us to look like him. And I note how often God speaks about aromas. Things are to him a sweet smelling aroma, but other things "stink in his nostrils".

Considering that the word we translate as "spirit" is really the word "breath" or "wind", the notion that things really STINK to God is something I take seriously.

Worship is the relationship of a man to a god, and a dog to a man. Consider the way that we ourselves are regarding animals. The world is full of them, and we interact with them. But there are not very many of them we will permit to live with us IN THE HOUSE. It isn't that we hate cows or sheep or goats, or squirrels, or birds, but they're pretty filthy. So are dogs that are not housebroken.

Dogs roll in their own dung. It doesn't stink to THEM, but it sure does stink to US. WE find it just nasty, and disgusting, and vile, and we don't want to live with it, smell it, see it. We don't hate dogs for eating garbage and rolling in poop - they're dogs. But we don't permit the dogs that we let live with us in our houses to poop on the rugs or eat the garbage in the kitchen. We require them to hold their poop and urine. We require them to eat out of their bowls. Only dogs that obey certain commands unnatural to them (normally, they pee on everything to mark it) are acceptable for living with us in the house. Otherwise they stink and are filthy and too nauseating for us to stand. We COULD keep ponies in apartments, and forget the loads of poop they'll drop every few hours. We COULD, but we DON'T. We DON'T, because we don't HAVE to. We DO have to live with cockroaches - and we hate it.

We're made in God's image, and we know, because he told us, that some things humans do stink in his nostrils. The City of God is his home. Heaven is his house. He COULD permit people to come on in, all covered with the dung of their sins. And we could make the dogs very happy by letting them pee and crap on everything and roll in it and letting every stray dog in. It would make the strays very happy. It would make US sick and sorry and sad to have to live in squalor which is bad for us, that stinks to us, that we do not like.

We HAVE to put up with creeping vermin, because we can't get rid of them completely.

God doesn't have to permit vermin in his house, and while he may want everybody to be clean and acceptable to him, if a man chooses to roll in blood and sex, and stinks of it in God's nostrils, he simply won't let the filth into his home, just as we don't permit strays to enter. Our sins hit God in the senses - they stink, they show on us, like poop all over a dog, or the smell of pot and sex all over some beatnik. We don't like being stuck next to that on a bus, and God simply doesn't PERMIT humans into heaven that aren't housebroken. Truth is, violence and lust are natural to us, rising within us from our youth. But if we want to live in the big house with the Master, then we must control our own tendency and accept being housebroken, even though it doesn't fit our natures, because otherwise we're too disgusting for the Master to let into the House. We're left locked outside in the dark, where we become prey to demons, just like a filthy dog left outside can become prey for coyotes.

It is not surprising to me that on the list of those sinners not admitted into the City of God at final judgment, "dogs" and "the filthy" figure on the list. I don't think it's a matter of appearance. I think that these sins LITERALLY STINK to God, and disgust him - turn his stomach, so to speak - so that's why.

Will he wash us dogs off so that we're not filthy? Well, yes, some of us, who TRY. We don't abandon the puppy to the pound the first time it soils the rug. We discipline it and train it. But the dog who is not disciplined and who will not be trained eventually is sent back to the pound - and to its death - usually by sad owners. But ultimately, people kill dogs that keep crapping the rug. Some people tolerate it, but most don't. And God has already made it clear that he's the type that kills humans that stink and won't be housebroken. He's God, and he would rather a man die - and the filth literally incinerated in the flames - rather than let it in the house. That's sad for the man who won't be housebroken, because it means a horrible death and complete destruction, like the horrible conditions and death of the dog in the pound. But the dog who won't be continent stinks too much and is put down. And God simply will not let unhousebroken humans into his house. He loves us, but he doesn't love us all THAT much. He doesn't WANT to kill us, but he WILL kill us if we won't be continent, because in the end we're more important than gnats, just like dogs are more important to us than chickens. But we kill millions of dogs rather than live with them. And God won't let the filth into his house.

That's just the bottom line. We're not equals to God. We're the noblest of animals, but we're just animals at the end of it all. We're animals that look like God, but if we stink like dogs, he kills us rather than accepting an unhousebroken human into his House.

I think that is pretty much exactly what Scripture says, by and by. Men usually exalt themselves, but I see God pretty consistently taking the view of a Master dealing with livestock. Good animals are rewarded, unruly animals are not worth the trouble, killed and replaced.

 

[redleghunter]

I'll tell you how I look at it.

I am very attentive to the word choices God uses when speaking of himself and when speaking of man. I note that God made us to look like him. And I note how often God speaks about aromas. Things are to him a sweet smelling aroma, but other things "stink in his nostrils".

Considering that the word we translate as "spirit" is really the word "breath" or "wind", the notion that things really STINK to God is something I take seriously.

Worship is the relationship of a man to a god, and a dog to a man. Consider the way that we ourselves are regarding animals. The world is full of them, and we interact with them. But there are not very many of them we will permit to live with us IN THE HOUSE. It isn't that we hate cows or sheep or goats, or squirrels, or birds, but they're pretty filthy. So are dogs that are not housebroken.

Dogs roll in their own dung. It doesn't stink to THEM, but it sure does stink to US. WE find it just nasty, and disgusting, and vile, and we don't want to live with it, smell it, see it. We don't hate dogs for eating garbage and rolling in poop - they're dogs. But we don't permit the dogs that we let live with us in our houses to poop on the rugs or eat the garbage in the kitchen. We require them to hold their poop and urine. We require them to eat out of their bowls. Only dogs that obey certain commands unnatural to them (normally, they pee on everything to mark it) are acceptable for living with us in the house. Otherwise they stink and are filthy and too nauseating for us to stand. We COULD keep ponies in apartments, and forget the loads of poop they'll drop every few hours. We COULD, but we DON'T. We DON'T, because we don't HAVE to. We DO have to live with cockroaches - and we hate it.

We're made in God's image, and we know, because he told us, that some things humans do stink in his nostrils. The City of God is his home. Heaven is his house. He COULD permit people to come on in, all covered with the dung of their sins. And we could make the dogs very happy by letting them pee and crap on everything and roll in it and letting every stray dog in. It would make the strays very happy. It would make US sick and sorry and sad to have to live in squalor which is bad for us, that stinks to us, that we do not like.

We HAVE to put up with creeping vermin, because we can't get rid of them completely.

God doesn't have to permit vermin in his house, and while he may want everybody to be clean and acceptable to him, if a man chooses to roll in blood and sex, and stinks of it in God's nostrils, he simply won't let the filth into his home, just as we don't permit strays to enter. Our sins hit God in the senses - they stink, they show on us, like poop all over a dog, or the smell of pot and sex all over some beatnik. We don't like being stuck next to that on a bus, and God simply doesn't PERMIT humans into heaven that aren't housebroken. Truth is, violence and lust are natural to us, rising within us from our youth. But if we want to live in the big house with the Master, then we must control our own tendency and accept being housebroken, even though it doesn't fit our natures, because otherwise we're too disgusting for the Master to let into the House. We're left locked outside in the dark, where we become prey to demons, just like a filthy dog left outside can become prey for coyotes.

It is not surprising to me that on the list of those sinners not admitted into the City of God at final judgment, "dogs" and "the filthy" figure on the list. I don't think it's a matter of appearance. I think that these sins LITERALLY STINK to God, and disgust him - turn his stomach, so to speak - so that's why.

Will he wash us dogs off so that we're not filthy? Well, yes, some of us, who TRY. We don't abandon the puppy to the pound the first time it soils the rug. We discipline it and train it. But the dog who is not disciplined and who will not be trained eventually is sent back to the pound - and to its death - usually by sad owners. But ultimately, people kill dogs that keep crapping the rug. Some people tolerate it, but most don't. And God has already made it clear that he's the type that kills humans that stink and won't be housebroken. He's God, and he would rather a man die - and the filth literally incinerated in the flames - rather than let it in the house. That's sad for the man who won't be housebroken, because it means a horrible death and complete destruction, like the horrible conditions and death of the dog in the pound. But the dog who won't be continent stinks too much and is put down. And God simply will not let unhousebroken humans into his house. He loves us, but he doesn't love us all THAT much. He doesn't WANT to kill us, but he WILL kill us if we won't be continent, because in the end we're more important than gnats, just like dogs are more important to us than chickens. But we kill millions of dogs rather than live with them. And God won't let the filth into his house.

That's just the bottom line. We're not equals to God. We're the noblest of animals, but we're just animals at the end of it all. We're animals that look like God, but if we stink like dogs, he kills us rather than accepting an unhousebroken human into his House.

I think that is pretty much exactly what Scripture says, by and by. Men usually exalt themselves, but I see God pretty consistently taking the view of a Master dealing with livestock. Good animals are rewarded, unruly animals are not worth the trouble, killed and replaced.

Interesting. Reminds me almost exactly to a catechism lesson my dear old Irish Aunt gave me a long time ago.

 

[Germatria1128]

I'll tell you how I look at it.

I am very attentive to the word choices God uses when speaking of himself and when speaking of man. I note that God made us to look like him. And I note how often God speaks about aromas. Things are to him a sweet smelling aroma, but other things "stink in his nostrils".

Considering that the word we translate as "spirit" is really the word "breath" or "wind", the notion that things really STINK to God is something I take seriously.

Worship is the relationship of a man to a god, and a dog to a man. Consider the way that we ourselves are regarding animals. The world is full of them, and we interact with them. But there are not very many of them we will permit to live with us IN THE HOUSE. It isn't that we hate cows or sheep or goats, or squirrels, or birds, but they're pretty filthy. So are dogs that are not housebroken.

Dogs roll in their own dung. It doesn't stink to THEM, but it sure does stink to US. WE find it just nasty, and disgusting, and vile, and we don't want to live with it, smell it, see it. We don't hate dogs for eating garbage and rolling in poop - they're dogs. But we don't permit the dogs that we let live with us in our houses to poop on the rugs or eat the garbage in the kitchen. We require them to hold their poop and urine. We require them to eat out of their bowls. Only dogs that obey certain commands unnatural to them (normally, they pee on everything to mark it) are acceptable for living with us in the house. Otherwise they stink and are filthy and too nauseating for us to stand. We COULD keep ponies in apartments, and forget the loads of poop they'll drop every few hours. We COULD, but we DON'T. We DON'T, because we don't HAVE to. We DO have to live with cockroaches - and we hate it.

We're made in God's image, and we know, because he told us, that some things humans do stink in his nostrils. The City of God is his home. Heaven is his house. He COULD permit people to come on in, all covered with the dung of their sins. And we could make the dogs very happy by letting them pee and crap on everything and roll in it and letting every stray dog in. It would make the strays very happy. It would make US sick and sorry and sad to have to live in squalor which is bad for us, that stinks to us, that we do not like.

We HAVE to put up with creeping vermin, because we can't get rid of them completely.

God doesn't have to permit vermin in his house, and while he may want everybody to be clean and acceptable to him, if a man chooses to roll in blood and sex, and stinks of it in God's nostrils, he simply won't let the filth into his home, just as we don't permit strays to enter. Our sins hit God in the senses - they stink, they show on us, like poop all over a dog, or the smell of pot and sex all over some beatnik. We don't like being stuck next to that on a bus, and God simply doesn't PERMIT humans into heaven that aren't housebroken. Truth is, violence and lust are natural to us, rising within us from our youth. But if we want to live in the big house with the Master, then we must control our own tendency and accept being housebroken, even though it doesn't fit our natures, because otherwise we're too disgusting for the Master to let into the House. We're left locked outside in the dark, where we become prey to demons, just like a filthy dog left outside can become prey for coyotes.

It is not surprising to me that on the list of those sinners not admitted into the City of God at final judgment, "dogs" and "the filthy" figure on the list. I don't think it's a matter of appearance. I think that these sins LITERALLY STINK to God, and disgust him - turn his stomach, so to speak - so that's why.

Will he wash us dogs off so that we're not filthy? Well, yes, some of us, who TRY. We don't abandon the puppy to the pound the first time it soils the rug. We discipline it and train it. But the dog who is not disciplined and who will not be trained eventually is sent back to the pound - and to its death - usually by sad owners. But ultimately, people kill dogs that keep crapping the rug. Some people tolerate it, but most don't. And God has already made it clear that he's the type that kills humans that stink and won't be housebroken. He's God, and he would rather a man die - and the filth literally incinerated in the flames - rather than let it in the house. That's sad for the man who won't be housebroken, because it means a horrible death and complete destruction, like the horrible conditions and death of the dog in the pound. But the dog who won't be continent stinks too much and is put down. And God simply will not let unhousebroken humans into his house. He loves us, but he doesn't love us all THAT much. He doesn't WANT to kill us, but he WILL kill us if we won't be continent, because in the end we're more important than gnats, just like dogs are more important to us than chickens. But we kill millions of dogs rather than live with them. And God won't let the filth into his house.

That's just the bottom line. We're not equals to God. We're the noblest of animals, but we're just animals at the end of it all. We're animals that look like God, but if we stink like dogs, he kills us rather than accepting an unhousebroken human into his House.

I think that is pretty much exactly what Scripture says, by and by. Men usually exalt themselves, but I see God pretty consistently taking the view of a Master dealing with livestock. Good animals are rewarded, unruly animals are not worth the trouble, killed and replaced.

Vicomte13-- You put forth an articulate analogy, however the choice of "dogs" to represent humans is perhaps more base than the Bible indicates. I think the phrase "Children of God" indicates that a Parent - Child relationship is a better reflection of the God / Man relationship and while indeed as parents our children may do things that "stink in our nostrils" and that make us horribly ashamed, very rarely would a truly loving parent seek that child's eternal death or permanent discharge.

Fathom the love you have for your child: I dare say that even if you found out conclusively that your child had murdered, or had conducted debasing sex acts, or had extorted millions, or was, in short, a horrible person --- STILL, to the end you do not want eternal death or destruction for the Child you LOVE. That's my view of the Father's LOVE.

It's a love for His children that is so deep that He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to die for us. The image/analogy of dogs loses some of the depth to the Father's LOVE that Children preserves.

 

[Vicomte13]

Vicomte13-- You put forth an articulate analogy, however the choice of "dogs" to represent humans is perhaps more base than the Bible indicates. I think the phrase "Children of God" indicates that a Parent - Child relationship is a better reflection of the God / Man relationship and while indeed as parents our children may do things that "stink in our nostrils" and that make us horribly ashamed, very rarely would a truly loving parent seek that child's eternal death or permanent discharge.

Fathom the love you have for your child: I dare say that even if you found out conclusively that your child had murdered, or had conducted debasing sex acts, or had extorted millions, or was, in short, a horrible person --- STILL, to the end you do not want eternal death or destruction for the Child you LOVE. That's my view of the Father's LOVE.

It's a love for His children that is so deep that He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to die for us. The image/analogy of dogs loses some of the depth to the Father's LOVE that Children preserves.

I chose dogs deliberately, partly because Jesus referred to the Syrophoenician woman and her sick daughter as "dogs". "Shall the food be thrown to the dogs while the children go unfed?" He asked? She replied subtly that even dogs eat from what falls from their master's table. And based on that God granted the miracle.

Also, one of the things on Jesus' list of what will prevent a man from passing final judgment is being a "dog".

I didn't stray upon a word to use - I used the very reference point Jesus used, twice.

 

[Germatria1128]

Jesus shows a sense of humor when he calls two of the bickering apostles "Boanerges" - "Sons of Thunder". It's an ironic name, because they keep debating with each other over who is greatest.

He also shows a sense of humor in his parable of the nettlesome woman who harrasses the corrupt judge so much that he gives judgment for her, just to make her go away.

There's humor of a sort in Jonah, when the gourd plant grows up and then dies, and Jonah in a pout would rather die than see that his missionary work in Nineveh was actually EFFECTIVE.

And of course the Creator made the camel. If you've ever been around camels, you know that they are the most absurd creature alive. They're funny looking, they can evert their throat and throw spit with it. The camel, the giraffe, the platypus and some of those bug-eyed creatures like lemurs and frogs are just funny to look at. And panda bears are so adorable that you can see God almost childlike in his delight at creating this and that, however weird and wonderful.

These are good examples of divine sense of humor. Thanks. I can't recall attribution but I remember a saying from awhile back that went : Coincidences are God demonstrating a sense of humor. Or something like: Coincidences are God winking at you.

 

[Germatria1128]

I chose dogs deliberately, partly because Jesus referred to the Syrophoenician woman and her sick daughter as "dogs". "Shall the food be thrown to the dogs while the children go unfed?" He asked? She replied subtly that even dogs eat from what falls from their master's table. And based on that God granted the miracle.

Also, one of the things on Jesus' list of what will prevent a man from passing final judgment is being a "dog".

I didn't stray upon a word to use - I used the very reference point Jesus used, twice.

And don't forget Mr. Presley's observation:
"Well, you ain't nothing but a hound dog. Cryin' all the time." --Elvis