Are you a Continuationist or a Cessationist?

[Dave L]

I think if Tongues and Prophecy continued, we would see the gifts throughout christendom as in Acts. But we only see them in groups that teach each other how to speak in tongues. We do not see this in Acts. It was always spontaneous.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Cessationism arises out of modernist theology which sees the universe only in naturalistic ways. Modernists reject the supernatural and maintain that man is just the product of time and chance, and the there is no Personal-Infinite God who has created man in His own image. Modernist philosophy emerged in Europe in the 1870s, around the time when Cessationist doctrine appeared in the evangelical churches. Cessationism in the churches was the first step toward current modernist theology. Modernism did not emerge in America until the 1930s.

A Cessationist denies the supernatural, therefore, because being born again is a supernatural thing brought about by the supernatural Holy Spirit, it could be argued that Cessationists could have problems with the genuineness of their profession of faith. They may have all the components of outward religion and know and teach the Bible from end to end, but if they deny the supernatural, they cannot say they are filled with the Holy Spirit because that is an important supernatural component of being born again and continuing in the will and purpose of God.

People can believe what they like, and if they are making a profession of Christianity and some of these Cessationist men are well known and respected Bible teaches, then I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. God will let everyone live and believe what they decide, but there will be a price to pay at the end of it. As for me, I will continue to believe in a supernatural God, angels, supernatural Holy Spirit and the continuance of His supernatural gifts in the Church. I will hold firmly to what the Scripture says when it says that true Christian faith is supernatural and that God is still working in supernatural ways with those ones who believe in continuance and seek to put it into practice in their lives and in their churches.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

It's hard to explain... essentially we believe Pentecostal tongues, manifestations, etc. are false.

I see. Well how do you explain people from our denomination who have raised the dead? One guy had his head run over by a truck in mexico, he was basically decapitated, the church prayed for him and he rose back to life (after many hours of prayer, and praise).

I personally have not raised the dead, but I have seen the sick healed (instantaneously), through prayer in Jesus name, and believing in the bible as God's only revelation to man.

The bible says "No man can perform a miracle in Jesus name and soon after speak evil of Him" .... would not that suggest that people who actually do perform miracles know Jesus quite well, for they can not speak evil of Him.

We believe in the bible as God's sole revelation, what is so different about us to you, other than we claim the miraculous.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think if Tongues and Prophecy continued, we would see the gifts throughout christendom as in Acts. But we only see them in groups that teach each other how to speak in tongues. We do not see this in Acts. It was always spontaneous.

The New Testament is the sole and final authority on these things, and because Paul has used a whole chapter to describe tongues and prophecy and instructions on how to use these gifts, then for me, I will use these gifts in the way Paul instructs because my faith is firmly based in what he taught, and not in what some people have observed the way these gifts are practiced in some churches.

 

[Tigger45]

I’m definitely not a cessationist but I’m not a continuationist either as typically expressed in most standard continuationist churches. I attend a Lutheran congregation which are normally known as cessationist but our sermons are way too prophetic to fall into that category.

 

[Dave L]

The New Testament is the sole and final authority on these things, and because Paul has used a whole chapter to describe tongues and prophecy and instructions on how to use these gifts, then for me, I will use these gifts in the way Paul instructs because my faith is firmly based in what he taught, and not in what some people have observed the way these gifts are practiced in some churches.

I understand your position. But in Acts, speaking in tongues was always spontaneous. And involved the whole church. But today, people need coaching on how to speak in "tongues" and it is sectarian. If it was a valid experience today, it would happen throughout christendom spontaneously as it did in Acts. And people would not need to learn how to do it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I understand your position. But in Acts, speaking in tongues was always spontaneous. And involved the whole church. But today, people need coaching on how to speak in "tongues" and it is sectarian. If it was a valid experience today, it would happen throughout christendom spontaneously as it did in Acts. And people would not need to learn how to do it.

I think your remark is a generalisation. When I first spoke in tongues it was spontaneous, and I have prayed for folk and they have started speaking spontaneously. I have also helped others, and they have spoken clear and beautiful languages quite unexpected when they have used their faith and started speaking. I do think that if someone was coached and all they did was to say "ba ba ba sha ba", etc, then I would say they had not broken through into the genuine gift of tongues. But I have sat people down in a quiet place over a cup of coffee, explained the gift of tongues to them, and then give them my four steps of faith to receive it (know that it is God's will for you; ask for the gift; receive it by faith; launch out and start speaking -activating your faith). These are sound Scriptural steps. Most times when I have laid hands on the person and instructed them to speak out in the Name of Jesus, they have spoken out in their own unique language, expressive and beautiful. God showed me those steps of faith when I saw a crowd of people around some poor soul and half of them were saying "hold on brother" and the other half saying "let go brother". The poor guy didn't know whether to hold on or let go! I said to the Lord, "This isn't right. Show me a better way." and He did, and after that, using the steps of faith He showed me, it worked every time.

 

[Dave L]

I think your remark is a generalisation. When I first spoke in tongues it was spontaneous, and I have prayed for folk and they have started speaking spontaneously. I have also helped others, and they have spoken clear and beautiful languages quite unexpected when they have used their faith and started speaking. I do think that if someone was coached and all they did was to say "ba ba ba sha ba", etc, then I would say they had not broken through into the genuine gift of tongues. But I have sat people down in a quiet place over a cup of coffee, explained the gift of tongues to them, and then give them my four steps of faith to receive it (know that it is God's will for you; ask for the gift; receive it by faith; launch out and start speaking -activating your faith). These are sound Scriptural steps. Most times when I have laid hands on the person and instructed them to speak out in the Name of Jesus, they have spoken out in their own unique language, expressive and beautiful. God showed me those steps of faith when I saw a crowd of people around some poor soul and half of them were saying "hold on brother" and the other half saying "let go brother". The poor guy didn't know whether to hold on or let go! I said to the Lord, "This isn't right. Show me a better way." and He did, and after that, using the steps of faith He showed me, it worked every time.

Thanks for sharing. I ran in Pentecostal circles for years and never saw spontaneous tongues. But only spontaneous outbursts after the person learned by coaching how to speak the first time. I also never saw any documented evidence of the miracles many claimed. I share some of my experience in the Testimonies thread on this board called "Escape from a Death Cult" if you care to read.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks for sharing. I ran in Pentecostal circles for years and never saw spontaneous tongues. But only spontaneous outbursts after the person learned by coaching how to speak the first time. I also never saw any documented evidence of the miracles many claimed. I share some of my experience in the Testimonies thread on this board called "Escape from a Death Cult" if you care to read.

Let me know the link.
I don't show people how to speak in tongues. I give them the four steps of faith. The Scriptural basis for these are:
1. Be not unwise but understanding what the will of God is [for you]. There is no point in continuing unless the person knows for sure that praying in tongues is God's definite will for them. Not all speak in tongues so it is important for that person to be sure about it from God.
2. Ask for the gift: "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God. What ever you ask for in the will of God, He will give it to you."
3. Receive it by faith. "He who asks, receives." The person must say to the Lord, "I receive this gift."
4. Then the person must activate faith by doing what he or she couldn't do before, that is, to start speaking in tongues. I can't make that person do that, it has to be a step of faith, based on the first three steps, before it will happen.

That is how I lead people into the gift.

 

[Dave L]

Let me know the link.
I don't show people how to speak in tongues. I give them the four steps of faith. The Scriptural basis for these are:
1. Be not unwise but understanding what the will of God is [for you]. There is no point in continuing unless the person knows for sure that praying in tongues is God's definite will for them. Not all speak in tongues so it is important for that person to be sure about it from God.
2. Ask for the gift: "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God. What ever you ask for in the will of God, He will give it to you."
3. Receive it by faith. "He who asks, receives." The person must say to the Lord, "I receive this gift."
4. Then the person must activate faith by doing what he or she couldn't do before, that is, to start speaking in tongues. I can't make that person do that, it has to be a step of faith, based on the first three steps, before it will happen.

That is how I lead people into the gift.

But in Acts you did not need to do this. It was always spontaneous and universal throughout the church. Today it is conjured up and sectarian suggesting it is role playing.

Here's my link: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/escape-from-a-death-cult.8071219/#post-72880258

 

[NBB]

Cessationists go as far as saying the Holy spirit do no reveal anything anymore because the bible has all we need, and if he revealed things those things then it would have to be added to the bible. How a person is going to pray for a spiritual problem to be solved if the Holy spirit doesn't reveal anything to you?. I have experienced this the Holy spirit would reveal me a problem or a bad spirit or something and with the name of Jesus or trough prayer those things were solved.

Also listening to for example John Macarthur saying all manifestations in pentecostal churches are satanic dries my soul.
I received the Holy spirit in one pentecostal church even entered the holy place, felt the glory of God and other things!.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

But in Acts you did not need to do this. It was always spontaneous and universal throughout the church. Today it is conjured up and sectarian suggesting it is role playing.

Here's my link: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/escape-from-a-death-cult.8071219/#post-72880258

Oh well, you can believe what you want. You have that right. When we all get to glory, it will all be left behind so I think it is a fairly minor point. You know, if all the fuss that people make over tongues, etc were made over the murder of babies in our abortion clinics, we might be able to make better changes in the society around us and present ourselves as compassionate believers seeking to protect precious human life.

 

[Anto9us]

from Spiritual Gifts SOP:

"The spiritual sign gifts: Speaking in Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues, Healing, and Miracles; may not be discussed or promoted in this forum. Please discuss the sign gifts in the Sign Gifts forum (no debate allowed). If you wish to debate whether or not the sign gifts are still active today, please start a thread in the General Theology forum."

Since it's already being discussed - I am Continuationist. I was never "coached".

 

[Dave L]

Oh well, you can believe what you want. You have that right. When we all get to glory, it will all be left behind so I think it is a fairly minor point. You know, if all the fuss that people make over tongues, etc were made over the murder of babies in our abortion clinics, we might be able to make better changes in the society around us and present ourselves as compassionate believers seeking to protect precious human life.

I used to speak in tongues, having been taught to do so. But I quit to see if it made a difference. It did not. So I began looking into the cessation position and think centering our minds on scripture helps us reel in our imaginations that we used to think were God speaking to us.

 

[Dave L]

Cessationists go as far as saying the Holy spirit do no reveal anything anymore because the bible has all we need, and if he revealed things those things then it would have to be added to the bible. How a person is going to pray for a spiritual problem to be solved if the Holy spirit doesn't reveal anything to you?. I have experienced this the Holy spirit would reveal me a problem or a bad spirit or something and with the name of Jesus or trough prayer those things were solved.

Also listening to for example John Macarthur saying all manifestations in pentecostal churches are satanic dries my soul.
I received the Holy spirit in one pentecostal church even entered the holy place, felt the glory of God and other things!.

All christians have the leading of the Holy Spirit. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

But when I was a pentecostal, I imagined God telling me what to do and ended up in many ridiculous situations. If you learn to discern the witness of the Spirit in your heart, you will have faith for somethings and other times not. And we walk by faith and not by sight. Whatever is not of faith is sin, so faith will only lead us in the right direction.

 

[NBB]

All christians have the leading of the Holy Spirit. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

But when I was a pentecostal, I imagined God telling me what to do and ended up in many ridiculous situations. If you learn to discern the witness of the Spirit in your heart, you will have faith for somethings and other times not. And we walk by faith and not by sight. Whatever is not of faith is sin, so faith will only lead us in the right direction.

But God tells sometimes people what to do, this doesn't mean you own mind or the devil can't tell us things too. And yes we need to walk by faith but that doesn't mean we can't have experiences with God or we shouldn't wish them. Those experiences for me were life changing and with a lot of meaning.

 

[Dave L]

But God tells sometimes people what to do, this doesn't mean you own mind or the devil can tell us things too. And yes we need to walk by faith but that doesn't mean we can't have experiences with God or we shouldn't wish them. Those experiences for me were life changing and with a lot of meaning.

God speaks to me through a witness of the Holy Spirit (sort of a gut feeling). And through motive. If I'm doing what love would do, it's the right choice, because God is love. And He gives faith or withholds it when I pray. If I believe in my heart (not mind), I know he answered my prayers before I receive the actual blessing or need.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I used to speak in tongues, having been taught to do so. But I quit to see if it made a difference. It did not. So I began looking into the cessation position and think centering our minds on scripture helps us reel in our imaginations that we used to think were God speaking to us.

I started speaking in tongues because I got alone with God, asked for the gift and received it. I don't speak tongues in public, because it is a private and personal prayer language that remains between God and me. To me, it is not just a religious function, but a valuable and meaningful form of communication between us. I guess that's the difference between you and me.

 

[Dave L]

I started speaking in tongues because I got alone with God, asked for the gift and received it. I don't speak tongues in public, because it is a private and personal prayer language that remains between God and me. To me, it is not just a religious function, but a valuable and meaningful form of communication between us. I guess that's the difference between you and me.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't notice a difference in the fruit of the Holy Spirit in my heart when I stopped. And I can't pray in faith if I don't know what I'm saying.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks for sharing. I didn't notice a difference in the fruit of the Holy Spirit in my heart when I stopped. And I can't pray in faith if I don't know what I'm saying.

That's fair enough. Paul did imply that not all spoke in tongues, so I guess that not all are the type of intercessors that would make the gift of tongues an enhancement to their prayers.