Are we the product of poor design?

Larniavc · Dec 29, 2020

Arc F1 said:
We will reach perfection in the next journey. This old flesh has many weaknesses.

It the point is that we are poorly designed.

Petros2015 · Dec 29, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Might be all the sugar and other things we love so much. Idk. I'm 56 and my teeth are holding up pretty good so far.

I don't know if you ever saw the movie "Never Cry Wolf" - back in the 80's I think, really great movie. He meets an eskimo, since the eskimos have been sold sugar and things, their teeth are going bad. Later, the eskimo is killing wolves and selling wolf pelts - he gives the main character a big smile, he has bright shiny new dentures he has been able to purchase from the pelt sales. Can't find the scene on youtube but here is another, you might enjoy the movie sometime - it's thoughtful with many merits.

Larniavc · Dec 29, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
We will be perfecter in the Kingdom.

If God is going to make us perfect why didn’t he make us perfect from the outset?

OldWiseGuy · Dec 29, 2020

Larnievc said:
If God is going to make us perfect why didn’t he make us perfect from the outset?

God fashioned us to enjoy our time on the earth (which he fashioned for our enjoyment). That's perfect enough for me.

It is puzzling that so many don't enjoy what God has provided.

Larniavc · Dec 29, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
"Soon as we're born, we're dyin'."

Iron Maiden?

Petros2015 · Dec 29, 2020

Heh. Here's another question - was smallpox a product of poor design?
Apparently we thought so, we got rid of it

Arc F1 · Dec 29, 2020

Larnievc said:
If God is going to make us perfect why didn’t he make us perfect from the outset?

We must earn it.

Arc F1 · Dec 29, 2020

Larnievc said:
It the point is that we are poorly designed.

Maybe flesh can only be made good to a certain point. Idk.

Larniavc · Dec 29, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
It is puzzling that so many don't enjoy what God has provided.

Let’s be fair though: God made many people in the foreknowledge that they would die painful, slow deaths in childhood so it would be hard to blame them for not enjoying the life God gave them.

Larniavc · Dec 29, 2020

Arc F1 said:
We must earn it.

So we are not perfectly designed. We are born imperfectly designed and must earn a perfect form.

Never heard that take before.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 29, 2020

Larnievc said:
Let’s be fair though: God made many people in the foreknowledge that they would die painful, slow deaths in childhood so it would be hard to blame them for not enjoying the life God gave them.

God made us "self aware". We should then be aware of what we need to do to solve these problems.

When my son was born my wife wasn't the healthiest and had a very difficult birth (forceps needed). Three years later she was much healthier and gave birth to our daughter easily and almost painlessly (she popped out on the second contraction).

Arc F1 · Dec 29, 2020

Larnievc said:
So we are not perfectly designed. We are born imperfectly designed and must earn a perfect form.

Never heard that take before.

I also learn something new each day. I always forget it later but hey I'm not perfect lol

Petros2015 · Dec 29, 2020

When a recruit enters bootcamp, he is far from a perfect soldier
But the bootcamp provides training and challenges and exercises and instructors
And then actual combat experience finishes the job (or at least tests the outcome)
And afterwards, if he survives, he may be commended or promoted or reprimanded or discharged
Depending on his performance

I think there is a very perfectly designed part of us
Which looks at imperfection, or something 'wrong' where an improvement could be made
Either in the environment
Or ourselves
Or the environments of others
And at least considers
Can I get rid of this?
Can I change this?
The desire for improvement, I think, I would call the perfectly designed part of us
the 'image of God' as it were
And we exist (or, if you prefer, have been placed) in an environment
Where it can be exercised
Or not

Petros2015 · Dec 29, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Maybe flesh can only be made good to a certain point. Idk.

I'm not so sure I want to see a 'perfectly designed' and therefore immortal Nero or Hitler wandering around freely. Mortality provides a nice cap on the amount of damage evil can do. On the other hand, an immortal Christ would be a good thing and no need to restrain it.

driewerf · Dec 29, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Maybe flesh can only be made good to a certain point. Idk.

So god has limitations...

OldWiseGuy · Dec 29, 2020

driewerf said:
So god has limitations...

God made us then said, "That'll do for now".

Arc F1 · Dec 29, 2020

driewerf said:
So god has limitations...

Or he had a reason. Idk.

durangodawood · Dec 29, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Evolutionists are fond of pointing out the weaknesses of our 'design' as compared to other species. The irony is that humans have never taken full advantage of the capabilities that we have, regardless of our supposedly poor design. Also ironic is that our 'evolutionary' design hasn't fared any better. In fact one can't tell the difference.

All evolution requires for species "success" is that we're good enough to raise young to independence. Evolution does not optimize.

And guess what.... thats what we observe in ourselves.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 29, 2020

durangodawood said:
All evolution requires for species "success" is that we're good enough to raise young to independence. Evolution does not optimize.

And guess what.... thats what we observe in ourselves.

Lots of similar characteristics between created and evolved species, politics being a big exception.

durangodawood · Dec 29, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Lots of similar characteristics between created and evolved species, politics being a big exception.

Of course. Both ideas describe a process to explain the formation of the forms we actually observe.

The problem is there's strong historical evidence for one of those processes and not the other.

Are we the product of poor design?

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Let the righteous man arise from slumber

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Wake me when it's soup.

Let the righteous man arise from slumber

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a day at the Zoo

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