Are we in the last of the last days?

[Guide To The Bible]

That's true, and not only probably. I absolutely would not believe you.

Well yes, I haven't provided any other information for you to think otherwise.

 

[keras]

Unless you think Jesus comes to earth at the beginning of the tribulation to be with the church for the entire tribulation, your post-trib rapture just got refuted here too.

Jesus said: I will be with you always, until the end of time. Matthew 28:20b
Spiritually as now and physically during the Millennium.

There is no rapture to heaven, pre, mid, or post.

 

[Psalm3704]

2 Kings 2:1 New King James Version (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
2 Kings 2:11 New King James Version (KJV)
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. a tempest or storm wind accompanied with vivid flashes of fire, figuratively used for the divine judgments (Isa 29:6). Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
One day Elisha becomes aware that Elijah's time on earth is nearly over. They are walking together and, when they reach the Jordan River, Elijah strikes the water with his cloak and the river parts to allow them to cross. Later, the prophet asks Elisha what he can do for him before he goes and Elisha asks for "a double portion of your spirit." Biblical Literacy: The Most Important People, Events, and Ideas of the Hebrew Bible

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
for God took him, as Elijah was taken, out of the world by death, according to ( 1 Kings 19:4 ) ( Ezekiel 24:16 Ezekiel 24:18 ) "for he was translated, that he should not see death", ( Hebrews 11:5 )
John Gills Exposition of the Bible Commentary
Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart ...

The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and
no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. ...
Act 8:33 For His life was removed from the earth.” 34“Tell me,” said the eunuch, “who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?”…

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Luke 23:43 New King James Version (NKJV)
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Matthew 27:50-53 New King James Version (NKJV)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Acts 2:34
For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand,
New International Version
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

Strike Two!!

Three Strikes and You're Out!!!






.

 

[Psalm3704]

There is no rapture to heaven, pre, mid, or post.

What, no post-trib rapture from you? I'm not convinced.









.

 

[he-man]

Strike Two!! Three Strikes and You're Out!!!

So you do not believe David? Or John? Or Luke?
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, [Comma] you shall be with Me in Paradise.” [/b][/u][/size] Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. Do you think Christ was saying you shall be with me in Hell?
If David is not in heaven and John says no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven I think you have not only struck out, you have no milk to get you anywhere.
Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand,
New International Version
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

[parousia70]

Well yes, I haven't provided any other information for you to think otherwise.

Correct. You've just claimed you know more than the apostles did.
You have not provided any information to back that claim up.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Correct. You've just claimed you know more than the apostles did.
You have not provided any information to back that claim up.

You're correct.

 

[parousia70]

You're correct.

And your claim that you know more than the very apostles who were charged by Jesus to deliver the faith, and infallibly inspired by the Holy spirit in that delivery, doesn't raise any red flags for you?

If they could be so wrong about the things you claim they were wrong about, how do you know they weren't wrong about everything?

 

[Guide To The Bible]

I wouldn't go that far. they just didn't understand as much as is known now.

 

[parousia70]

I wouldn't go that far. they just didn't understand as much as is known now.

About what?
The Resurrection?
Grace through Faith?
Repentance?
The Law?

What exactly did they believe and teach about, that they didn't know as much as is known today?

I assume we can leave out things such as electricity and internal combustion, DNA and space flight, since they did not teach about those things in the first place...I'm wondering what you believe they actually taught that they didn't have enough information to teach correctly?

 

[keras]

What, no post-trib rapture from you? I'm not convinced.

Your scathing comments show a rude disregard for the beliefs of other Christians. You judge us for not believing as you do, this attitude is wrong. James 4:11-12
At the Return of Jesus, post-Great Tribulation, He will gather those of His people who remain. Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thess 4:15-17 describe that gathering, a transportation from where each Christian is to Jerusalem, where Jesus is. Same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

 

[Psalm3704]

Your scathing comments show a rude disregard for the beliefs of other Christians. You judge us for not believing as you do, this attitude is wrong. James 4:11-12

You seem to think it's rude every time when someone disagrees with you. Aren't you the one constantly speaking evil against our belief in a pre-trib rapture, and calling us the lost? James 4:11-12

At the Return of Jesus, post-Great Tribulation, He will gather those of His people who remain. Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thess 4:15-17 describe that gathering, a transportation from where each Christian is to Jerusalem, where Jesus is. Same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

So what's this you said yesterday about no such thing as a rapture, pre, mid or post? Sounds like your word doesn't carry much weight.

There is no rapture to heaven, pre, mid, or post.

There is no rapture to heaven, pre, mid, or post.

.​

 

[Psalm3704]

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, [Comma] you shall be with Me in Paradise.” [/b][/u][/size] Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. Do you think Christ was saying you shall be with me in Hell?
If David is not in heaven and John says no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven I think you have not only struck out, you have no milk to get you anywhere.

So you're telling us that Jesus told the thief he would join Him in hell today? I don't think so. Now who's the one who struck out, Bud?

So you're telling us Paradise is in hell? I don't think so. Now who's the one without milk, Bud?

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Who was Paul persecuting below, Jesus or Christians?

Acts 9:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”​

Who are the Me Jesus referring to below?

Matthew 25:42-45 New King James Version (NKJV)
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’​

Strike Three!!!








.

 

[he-man]

So you're telling us that Jesus told the thief he would join Him in hell today? I don't think so. Now who's the one who struck out, Bud?

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, [/quote]And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, [Comma] you shall be with Me in Paradise.” [/b][/u][/size] Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, then you have the TODAY all wrong. Do you think Christ was saying you shall be with me in Hell using your TODAY theory?
You also failed to answer If David is not in heaven and John says no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven I think you have not only struck out, you have need to get milk to get you anywhere.

Who was Paul persecuting below, Jesus or Christians? Acts 9:4 New King James Version (NKJV) .

1 Peter 4:10-11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
First of all the scripture you quote from Acts was before Christ was resurrected and secondly it was a vision, just like with Ananias. So your point is MOOT!
Φιρατ οφ αλλ τηε σψριπτθρε Φιρστ, τηισ ςασ βεφορε τηε δεατη ανδ ρεσθρρεψτιον οφ Ψηριστ ανδ σεψονδλυ ιτ ςασ α ωισιον ξθστ λικε
Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
5 And he said: Who art thou, Lord? And he said: I am Jesus whom thou persecuteth! τι με διωκεισ ει πεν δε τισ ει κε ο δε ειπεν εγω ειμι ισ ον συ διωκεισ
17 And Ananias went, and entered into the house, and having laid his hands on him, said: Brother Saul, the Lord, who appeared to thee as Jesus on the way by which thou earnest, has sent me, that thou mayest receive sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Act 9:17 απηλθεν δε ανανι ασ και εισηλθεν εισ την οικιαν και επιθεισ επ αυτον τασ χιρασ ειπεν σαουλ αδελφε ο κσ απεϲταλκεν με ισ ο οφθεισ σοι εν τη οδω [┬ omit οπωσ] αναβλε ψησ και πλησθησ
[Codex Sinaiticus]
I do not know what you think Matthew 25:42-45 has to do with your quote? Look at what he said before that:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[keras]

Aren't you the one constantly speaking evil against our belief in a pre-trib rapture, and calling us the lost? James 4:11-12

Yes, I speak against all false theories. Are you a flat earth believer? I would post against that idea, just as I post against the ridiculous idea of people being whisked to heaven. And I have never called anyone 'lost'.

So what's this you said yesterday about no such thing as a rapture, pre, mid or post? Sounds like your word doesn't carry much weight.

Are you incapable of plain reading? I said there will be a transportation of those who remain, when Jesus Returns, to where He is: in Jerusalem.
Any 'rapture to heaven' is wrong and unbiblical.

 

[he-man]

So you're telling us that Jesus told the thief he would join Him in hell today? I don't think so. Now who's the one who struck out, Bud?
So you're telling us Paradise is in hell? I don't think so. Now who's the one without milk, Bud?

Cat got your tongue?
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, [Comma] you shall be with Me in Paradise.” [/b][/u][/size] Isn't it amazing that Christ went down to the underworld that day and remained there and was not resurrected until after 3 more days. If he was only resurrected 3 days later, then you have the TODAY all wrong. Do you think Christ was saying you shall be with me in Hell using your TODAY theory?
You also failed to answer If David is not in heaven and John says no one except Christ has ever gone to heaven I think you have not only struck out, you have need to get milk to get you anywhere.

Who was Paul persecuting below, Jesus or Christians? Acts 9:4 New King James Version (NKJV) .

1 Peter 4:10-11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
First of all the scripture you quote from Acts was before Christ was resurrected and secondly it was a vision, just like with Ananias. So your point is MOOT!
Φιρατ οφ αλλ τηε σψριπτθρε Φιρστ, τηισ ςασ βεφορε τηε δεατη ανδ ρεσθρρεψτιον οφ Ψηριστ ανδ σεψονδλυ ιτ ςασ α ωισιον ξθστ λικε
Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
5 And he said: Who art thou, Lord? And he said: I am Jesus whom thou persecuteth! τι με διωκεισ ει πεν δε τισ ει κε ο δε ειπεν εγω ειμι ισ ον συ διωκεισ
17 And Ananias went, and entered into the house, and having laid his hands on him, said: Brother Saul, the Lord, who appeared to thee as Jesus on the way by which thou earnest, has sent me, that thou mayest receive sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Act 9:17 απηλθεν δε ανανι ασ και εισηλθεν εισ την οικιαν και επιθεισ επ αυτον τασ χιρασ ειπεν σαουλ αδελφε ο κσ απεϲταλκεν με ισ ο οφθεισ σοι εν τη οδω [┬ omit οπωσ] αναβλε ψησ και πλησθησ
[Codex Sinaiticus]
I do not know what you think Matthew 25:42-45 has to do with your quote? Look at what he said before that:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[Guide To The Bible]

About what?
The Resurrection?
Grace through Faith?
Repentance?
The Law?

What exactly did they believe and teach about, that they didn't know as much as is known today?

I assume we can leave out things such as electricity and internal combustion, DNA and space flight, since they did not teach about those things in the first place...I'm wondering what you believe they actually taught that they didn't have enough information to teach correctly?

Well apart from a little confusion amongst themselves about how to evangelise to gentiles while maintaining the law, which is inconsequential really, the main area that we have better understanding of today and as I mentioned, is prophesy. In fact the average Christian today has a better understanding of interpretation of prophesy than any of the apostles did. Also just by virtue of having all the scriptures and voluminous teachings at the touch of a button, not to mention that most Christians today can read and write, we are in these areas at least heads and shoulders above most of the apostles too. The church has come a long way since it's beginnings. Okay so they may have had spiritual giftings beyond what most Christians today have but that is another area entirely. Prophesy was my main point.

 

[parousia70]

Well apart from a little confusion amongst themselves about how to evangelise to gentiles while maintaining the law, which is inconsequential really, the main area that we have better understanding of today and as I mentioned, is prophesy. ...Prophesy was my main point.

Ok. Who today has the authority to declare an event to be the fulfillment of Prophesy, Anybody?.. and what happens when one person says an event is the fulfillment and another says it isn't?

Who in the New testament (or Old) had the authority to declare when an event fulfilled prophesy? Anybody?

Who were the only people in scripture who ever correctly declared an event was the fulfillment of prophesy?

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Ok. Who today has the authority to declare an event to be the fulfillment of Prophesy, Anybody?.. and what happens when one person says an event is the fulfillment and another says it isn't?

Who in the New testament (or Old) had the authority to declare when an event fulfilled prophesy? Anybody?

Who were the only people in scripture who ever correctly declared an event was the fulfillment of prophesy?

Jesus obviously had the authority to correctly declare which prophesy's were completed and which were not.

Today we can interpret which prophesy's are still to be fulfilled and how. This interpretation is something that can be learned, all you need is the Holy Spirit, time and the internet, where we have all the information we need. God has brought this situation about in order to fulfil prophesy. The Holy Spirit is the key to making the correct interpretation of prophesy, this takes time and much study of scripture.

 

[Psalm3704]

Any 'rapture to heaven' is wrong and unbiblical.

Revelation 19:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God!​

I see a great multitude in heaven.








.