Are we in the 7 year tribulation?

Douggg · Jun 15, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
70 AD played no part in fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, it appears that you promote (Reformed Preterist Eschatology)

I think the events of 70 ad are in Luke 21:20-24. But the various forms of preterism does not know when to stop - which in Luke 21:24 is with the times of the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then in Luke 21:25, Jesus goes right to the end of the great tribulation and His Return.

Douggg · Jun 15, 2023

David Kent said:
The great tribulation in Revelation is on the church, not the Jews.

The great tribulation will be experienced by all who are alive on the earth at that time (in the near future)_.

The three woe trumpets - "woe to the inhabiters of the earth".

kjv

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Truth7t7 · Jun 15, 2023

Douggg said:
I think the events of 70 ad are in Luke 21:20-24. But the various forms of preterism does not know when to stop - which in Luke 21:24 is with the times of the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then in Luke 21:25, Jesus goes right to the end of the great tribulation and His Return.

I Strongly Disagree, AD 66-70 has no part in fulfillment of Matthew 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21

The temple being destroyed was fulfilled symbolically in the destruction of the Lord's body on the cross of calvary as John 2:19-21 below teaches

Daniel's AOD , The Great Tribulation and Second Coming are future events unfulfilled

Jesus Is The Lord

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Douggg · Jun 15, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
I Strongly Disagree, AD 66-70 has no part in fulfillment of Matthew 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21

The temple being destroyed was fulfilled symbolically in the destruction of the Lord's body on the cross of calvary as John 2:19-21 below teaches

kjv

Luke 2124 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That was part of the aftermath of the 70AD event.

Truth7t7 said:
Daniel's AOD , The Great Tribulation and Second Coming are future events unfulfilled

I agree. But you should be a little more specific, the end times abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12.

In Daniel 11:31, Antiochus prefigured what the end times abomination of desolation would be. He placed a statue of Zeus in the temple.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Thus, the end times abomination of desolation will be the statue image that the false prophet has the people of the world make of the beast king in Revelation 13:14-15.

Truth7t7 · Jun 15, 2023

Douggg said:
kjv

Luke 2124 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That was part of the aftermath of the 70AD event.

Your claim Luke 21:24 was fulfilled in 70AD is false, it's a future event unfulfilled

Jerusalem being trodden underfoot for 42 months is seen below, it will take place when the (Two Witnesses) are present on earth in Jerusalems "Future"

The book of Revelation was written in 96 AD when John was in prison on the Island Patmos under the reign of Roman Emperir Domitian 81-96AD

Revelation 11:2-7KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Douggg · Jun 15, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim Luke 21:24 was fulfilled in 70AD is false, it's a future event unfulfilled

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The part in red was fulfilled in the aftermath of 70AD. Not the rest of it.

Jerusalem trodden down by the Gentiles lasted until 1967 when the Jews regained control of Jerusalem and made it their capital.

Truth7t7 said:
Jerusalem being trodden underfoot for 42 months is seen below, it will take place when the (Two Witnesses) are present on earth in Jerusalems "Future"

Now, you do have a point and I am not going to disagree with it, regarding Jerusalem is going to be trodden down by the Gentiles again for the 42 months.

You are wrong though regarding the 1260 days of the two witnesses' timing.

The 1260 days of the two witnesses come first, then the 3 1/2 days their bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem before coming back to life and ascending to heaven. Leaving the remaining 42 months of the 7 years that the armies of the beast king will have a stranglehold over the city, as the worship of the abomination of desolation statue image will be required.

Truth7t7 · Jun 15, 2023

Douggg said:
The 1260 days of the two witnesses come first, then the 3 1/2 days their bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem before coming back to life and ascending to heaven. Leaving the remaining 42 months of the 7 years that the armies of the beast king will have a stranglehold over the city, as the worship of the abomination of desolation statue image will be required.

Your claim 42 months exists beyond the two witnesses being called to heaven is "False"

When the witnesses are raised to heaven "The Same Hour" is the great earthquake as the 2nd woe is complete as the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" in the 7th Angel/Trump (The End)

You will closely note in verse 18 below the final judgement takes place at this time of (The End)

Conclusion: The two witnesses are present on this earth at the final hours of the last day (The End), your claim 42 months exists beyond this is 100% "False"

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged) Is (The End)

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Douggg · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim 42 months exists beyond the two witnesses being called to heaven is "False"

When the witnesses are raised to heaven "The Same Hour" is the great earthquake as the 2nd woe is complete as the 3rd woe comes "Quickly" in the 7th Angel/Trump (The End)

You will closely note in verse 18 below the final judgement takes place at this time of (The End)

Conclusion: The two witnesses are present on this earth at the final hours of the last day (The End), your claim 42 months exists beyond this is 100% "False"

No, the 42 months come after the 1260 days of the two witnesses.

What is false is your claim that the 1260 day testimony of the two witnesses equals the 42 months that Jerusalem is trodden down - as I will show.

The seventh angel does not sound until after 1263.5 days. Does 42 months = 1263.5 days ?

What I am showing you is that the 42 months in Revelation is a term used instead of 1260 days because they are not exact equals.

1260 days (exactly half of the 2520 day 7 years) + 3.5 days + 1256.5 days (called 42 months) = 2520 days (the 7 years).

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Truth7t7 said:
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Who is speaking ? You have to trace back up through the text to find out it is the mighty angel of Revelation 10:1. Who John sees right after being shown the two woes in Revelation 9.

So it is the mighty angel who says.... 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

That same mighty angel said in Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Not the day of, but in the days of - indicating a period of time.

What is the third woe that John was about to be informed of soon? And how long would it last ?

The answer is....

The third, and worst, woe to the inhabiters of the earth - is Satan cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12. The phrase "woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea" is declared in that verse. He will have a time/times/half time left, Revelation 12:14. That is the time span of the third woe. It encompasses the time spans of the first and second woes.

The 42 months (which is not exactly 1260 days) and the time/times/half time (also not exactly 1260 days) are in the second half of the 7 years.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the break down of timeframes - what is the first half (1260 days), and what is in the second half (1260 days).

first half
the 1260 days of the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3 and of Revelation 12:6 that they fed the woman Israel the word of God prophesying.

second half
1. the 3.5 days
2. the 42 months (1256.5 days) of Revelation 11:2 treading down Jerusalem during the 42 months rule of the beast king in Revelation 13:5.
3. the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14 that Satan will seek to destroy the woman Israel.
4. the time/times/half time of Daniel 7:25 that the saints will be persecuted by the little horn.
5. the time/times/half time of Daniel 12:7 that the power of the holy people will be scattered.

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

Douggg said:
No, the 42 months come after the 1260 days of the two witnesses.

What is false is your claim that the 1260 day testimony of the two witnesses equals the 42 months that Jerusalem is trodden down - as I will show.

The seventh angel does not sound until after 12635 days. Does 42 months = 1263.5 days ?

What I am showing you is that the 42 months in Revelation is a term used instead of 1260 days because they are not exact equals.

1260 days (exactly half of the 2520 day 7 years) + 3.5 days + 1256.5 days (called 42 months) = 2520 days (the 7 years).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is speaking ? You have to trace back up through the text to find out it is the mighty angel of Revelation 10:1. Who John sees right after being shown the two woes in Revelation 9.

So it is the mighty angel who says.... 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

That same mighty angel said in Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Not the day of, but in the days of - indicating a period of time.

What is the third woe that John was about to be informed of soon? And how long would it last ?

The answer is....

The third, and last woe, and worst woe to the inhabiters of the earth - is Satan cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12. The phrase "woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea" is declared in that verse. He will have a time/times/half time left, Revelation 12:14. That is the time span of the third woe. It encompasses the time spans of the first and second woes.

The 42 months (which is not exactly 1260 days) and the time/times/half time (also not exactly 1260 days) are in the second half of the 7 years.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the break down of timeframes - what is the first half (1260 days), and what is in the second half (1260 days).

first half
the 1260 days of the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3 and of Revelation 12:6 that they fed the woman Israel the word of God prophesying.

second half
1. the 3.5 days
2. the 42 months (1256.5 days) of Revelation 11:2 trodding down Jerusalem during the 42 months rule of the beast king in Revelation 13:5.
3. the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14 that Satan will seek to destroy the woman Israel.
4. the time/times/half time of Daniel 7:25 that the saints will be persecuted by the little horn.
5. the time/times/half time of Daniel 12:7 that the power of the holy people will be scattered.

Your claim is false, there isn't any time beyond the 3rd woe in the 7th Angel/Trump (The End)

Yes the final judgment is seen in Revelation 11:18 (The End) as you have been clearly shown to you rejection of the biblical truth presented

I Disagree With Your Claims Made

Jesus Is The Lord

Douggg · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim is false, there isn't any time beyond the 3rd woe in the 7th Angel/Trump (The End)

The 7th angel sounding is not itself the third woe. The 7th angel sounding, it will be in the days of that the third woe will take place

You are confusing the time no more wording in Revelation 10:6 as being the end of everything. The phrase "there should be time no longer" in that context means "no further delay".

Truth7t7 said:
Yes the final judgment is seen in Revelation 11:18 (The End) as you have been clearly shown to you rejection of the biblical truth presented

Please, no ad hominems.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

It is talking about the period of time that the mystery of God which He declared to His prophets would be finished. The mystery of God that He declared to the prophets is how God is going to take the kingdoms of this world out from under Satan's evil. And how God is going to end Satan's free-wheeling to do evil. And destroy Satan and his angels' mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great.

--------------------------------------------------------------

What are you going to do with the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6, before Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, and the time/times/half time in Revelation 12:14 that comes after Satan and his angels are cast down to earth ?

anetazo · Jun 16, 2023

Revelation chapter 9, the tribulation is 5 month period. Mark chapter 13, Jesus shortened the time for the elect sakes. The 7 year period is shortened to 5 month period. Read Revelation chapter 13, it's one world political system. Near future, it receives deadly wound. Antichrist arrives 6th trump, heals deadly by establishing world peace. Read second thessalonians chapter 2, the son of perdition gos into temple of God, Jerusalem, claiming to be. Jesus. The devil is play actor. He will fulfill his role as antichrist near future. Those who are biblically illiterate or messing with false religion, will worship antichrist. You must have gospel armory on. Its knowledge of Gods word. Many people will end up in hell. To worship antichrist is trip to sheol. I documented this.

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

Douggg said:
The 7th angel sounding is not itself the third woe. The 7th angel sounding, it will be in the days of that the third woe will take place

Your claim is false again as you "Double Down", hard to believe

"The Same Hour" is the great earthquake as the 2nd woe is complete

"Yes" the 3rd woe is the 7th Angel/Trump that comes "Quickly" (The End)

"No" gap of days exist's between the 2nd/3rd woe below as you suggest, a false claim

"Yes" Revelation 11:18 is the "Final Judgement" (The End)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged)

Will you now "Triple Down"?

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

(When He Shall Begin To Sound)

Revelation 10:7KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

David Kent · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
70 AD played no part in fulfillment of Matthew Chapter 24, it appears that you promote (Reformed Preterist Eschatology)

Nothing to do with either of those. Just read the 3 accounts, without any blinkers. It

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

David Kent said:
Nothing to do with either of those. Just read the 3 accounts, without any blinkers. It

I have read the three accounts for 40+ years, the temple destruction talked about was symbolically the Lord's body as John 2:19-21 teaches below

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming are "Future Events" unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD causes the great tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation, this didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem, Reformed Preterist Eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment isis "Wrong"

John 2:19-21KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Pretty hard to have a Great Tribulation in 66-70AD and Jesus Christ returning (Immediately After The Tribulation) as seen below, reformed preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

David Kent · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcasar 1554-1613) introduced your reformed preterist teaching in 70AD fulfillment of Daniel's AOD and the great tribulation in Matthew Chapter 24

You seem to be misinformed. Alcasar, introduced preterism granted, but that was to counter the Christian teaching that the Pope is Antichrist, to attack the reformed teaching. Jesuit Belarmine and others introduced futurist teaching to the same reason.

And where does it say the tribulation is seven years? Early futurists, the Catholic Apostolic Church (Irvingites) and the Plymouth Brethren taught that it was 1260 days. Incidentally according to the Irvingites, the rapture would happen in 1833. I could tell you the actual date, but I would have to look it up.

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

David Kent said:
You seem to be misinformed. Alcasar, introduced preterism granted, but that was to counter the Christian teaching that the Pope is Antichrist, to attack the reformed teaching. Jesuit Belarmine and others introduced futurist teaching to the same reason.

And where does it say the tribulation is seven years? Early futurists, the Catholic Apostolic Church (Irvingites) and the Plymouth Brethren taught that it was 1260 days. Incidentally according to the Irvingites, the rapture would happen in 1833. I could tell you the actual date, but I would have to look it up.

The future tribulation will be 3.5 years starting when the literal human man (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed to the world

I don't follow the Irvingites or John N. Darby's dispensationalism, there won't be a pre-trib rapture or millennial kingdom on this earth

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Yes Alcasar and Ribera were both Roman Catholic Jesuits and false teachers

Yes reformed eschatology follows Alcasars teachings in 66-70AD fulfillment in the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem, Just as dispensationalism follows Riberas false teachings

Jesus Is The Lord

Douggg · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim is false again as you "Double Down", hard to believe

"The Same Hour" is the great earthquake as the 2nd woe is complete

Oh, you are "Tripling Down". The second woe was shown to John in Revelation 9:15-20, as a great army which kills a third of man kind.

What you would try to get us to believe at that same time a third of man kind is being killed - that the world is celebrating and exchanging gifts with each other over the deaths of the two witnesses.

You are wrong. The 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years. They will be killed and come back to life as the great tribulation is just beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

The 42 months of treading down Jerusalem is in the second half of the 7 years, which corresponds to 42 months of the beast king's rule. The timing of the second woe shown to John of the killing of a third of mankind will take place near the end of the great tribulation, as a prelude to Armageddon.

The third of man-kind killed is annotated on my graphic below...

:

Douggg · Jun 16, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
The future tribulation will be 3.5 years starting when the literal human man (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) is revealed to the world

No, 1335 days long, being when the statue image of the beast king is place on the temple mount - as the abomination of desolation.

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

Douggg said:
Oh, you are "Tripling Down". The second woe was shown to John in Revelation 9:15-20, as a great army which kills a third of man kind.

What you would try to get us to believe at that same time a third of man kind is being killed - that the world is celebrating and exchanging gifts with each other over the deaths of the two witnesses.

You are wrong. The 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years. They will be killed and come back to life as the great tribulation is just beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

The 42 months of treading down Jerusalem is in the second half of the 7 years, which corresponds to 42 months of the beast king's rule. The timing of the second woe shown to John of the killing of a third of mankind will take place near the end of the great tribulation, as a prelude to Armageddon.

The third of man-kind killed is annotated on my graphic below...

View attachment 332407

:

"Yes" Revelation 11:18 is the "Final Judgement" (The End)

(The Time Of The Dead, That They Should Be Judged) (The End)

Revelation 11:18KJV
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Truth7t7 · Jun 16, 2023

Douggg said:
Oh, you are "Tripling Down". The second woe was shown to John in Revelation 9:15-20, as a great army which kills a third of man kind.

What you would try to get us to believe at that same time a third of man kind is being killed - that the world is celebrating and exchanging gifts with each other over the deaths of the two witnesses.

You are wrong. The 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years. They will be killed and come back to life as the great tribulation is just beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

The 42 months of treading down Jerusalem is in the second half of the 7 years, which corresponds to 42 months of the beast king's rule. The timing of the second woe shown to John of the killing of a third of mankind will take place near the end of the great tribulation, as a prelude to Armageddon.

The third of man-kind killed is annotated on my graphic below...

View attachment 332407

:

"Yes" When the 7th Angel "begins to sound", the mystery of God is finished (The End)

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

(When He Shall Begin To Sound)

Revelation 10:7KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Are we in the 7 year tribulation?

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