Are we evolving?

[brinny]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but we are related. I may not be your cousin, but I am related to you, in that we belong to the same species of ape, and that we are both related to a distant ancestor which we have in common with other species of ape.

The evidence is there...look.

don't see no resemblence, nope. What happened to the apes anyway...why haven't they evolved? Did they get stuck in a time-warp?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Hey brinny, still waiting for a reaponse to my post (#90)

 

[biggles53]

don't see no resemblence, nope. What happened to the apes anyway...why haven't they evolved? Did they get stuck in a time-warp?

What would be acceptable to you as a good "resemblance'?

The apes (including ourselves), along with every other species currently observed, have evolved! You seem to fall into the same trap that many uninformed do - namely, that evolution is a serial process. Not so. We didn't slowly evolve from the apes that you see currently existing. A gorilla doesn't slowly turn into a human! All of the apes share a common ancestor, from which a number of branches formed the various ape species we now observe...including humans.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Human beings are called human for a reason. What is it?

A human is:

1. Me.
2. Any member of the set of individuals with whom I can reproduce (this defines human females),
3. All those with whom (2) can reproduce (this defines human males),
4. All those who are descended from (1), (2), and/or (3) (this defines all those who can't reproduce: children, the elderly, the infertile, etc).

Yes, I think that should suffice.

I would like to add something. Human beings are distinguished from 'animals' because we are created in the image of our Creator. Animals are not.

 

[brinny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brinny
don't see no resemblence, nope. What happened to the apes anyway...why haven't they evolved? Did they get stuck in a time-warp?

What would be acceptable to you as a good "resemblance'?

The apes (including ourselves), along with every other species currently observed, have evolved! You seem to fall into the same trap that many uninformed do - namely, that evolution is a serial process. Not so. We didn't slowly evolve from the apes that you see currently existing. A gorilla doesn't slowly turn into a human! All of the apes share a common ancestor, from which a number of branches formed the various ape species we now observe...including humans.

what you posted makes no sense. it offers no explanation for the obvious glaring differences between me, myself, and an animal, an animal called an ape. They are animals, as it was from the beginning of creation. It is 2008. Apes are apes are apes. From the beginning it was and always will be. They be apes. Can't you see?

 

[brinny]

Hey brinny, still waiting for a reaponse to my post (#90)

thank you kindly for your patience. check again

 

[biggles53]

what you posted makes no sense. it offers no explanation for the obvious glaring differences between me, myself, and an animal, an animal called an ape. They are animals, as it was from the beginning of creation. It is 2008. Apes are apes are apes. From the beginning it was and always will be. They be apes. Can't you see?

20/20 vision thanks...

"obvious glaring differences"?? Are you joking!? Apart from the obvious physical and behavioural similarities that we share, genetically it is impossible to 'wish' away the incontravertible evidence that abounds which links us to the other apes.

Have you ever bothered to examine the evidence, or is anything that doesn't sit with your magic book automatically discarded...?

 

[biggles53]

Since you describe yourself as a "shiner of light into dark places", let's try shining a little light...

Have you read anything of what I posted earlier about retroviral imprints in the genomes of ourselves and other primates...?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
what you posted makes no sense. it offers no explanation for the obvious glaring differences between me, myself, and an animal, an animal called an ape. They are animals, as it was from the beginning of creation. It is 2008. Apes are apes are apes. From the beginning it was and always will be. They be apes. Can't you see?

20/20 vision thanks...

"obvious glaring differences"?? Are you joking!? Apart from the obvious physical and behavioural similarities that we share, genetically it is impossible to 'wish' away the incontravertible evidence that abounds which links us to the other apes.

Have you ever bothered to examine the evidence, or is anything that doesn't sit with your magic book automatically discarded...?

she looks nothing like me:

 

[brinny]

Since you describe yourself as a "shiner of light into dark places", let's try shining a little light...

Have you read anything of what I posted earlier about retroviral imprints in the genomes of ourselves and other primates...?

retro huh? of what? and ge sumthin'? i must'a missed that one.

 

[biggles53]

retro huh? of what? and ge sumthin'? i must'a missed that one.

OK, I'll write slowly..

In every one of your cells, in your DNA, there is an imprint ( a tell-tale signal) of a virus which entered the body of one of your ancestors a long time ago. This 'mark' has been passed down from generation to generation.

Now, this mark is also found in other ape species' DNA (in fact, several different types of 'mark' have been observed).

So what? you say.

The thing is, of the more than 30,000 different locations in your DNA, those marks are exactly in the same place in your DNA as they are in the other apes!

In other words, that virus and its calling card were placed into an ancestor which is common to both us and the other apes.

Getting it now...?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
retro huh? of what? and ge sumthin'? i must'a missed that one.

OK, I'll write slowly..

In every one of your cells, in your DNA, there is an imprint ( a tell-tale signal) of a virus which entered the body of one of your ancestors a long time ago. This 'mark' has been passed down from generation to generation.

Now, this mark is also found in other ape species' DNA (in fact, several different types of 'mark' have been observed).

So what? you say.

The thing is, of the more than 30,000 different locations in your DNA, those marks are exactly in the same place in your DNA as they are in the other apes!

In other words, that virus and its calling card were placed into an ancestor which is common to both us and the other apes.

Getting it now...?

so are you saying that a human being procreated with an ape to get such a virus, a mark?

 

[biggles53]

so are you saying that a human being procreated with an ape to get such a virus, a mark?

No, these 'marks' or imprints have been passed down in our genetic information from generation to generation, in the same way that you and I have inherited our eye colour, hair colour, height, etc from our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.

The original viral infection would have been the same mechanism as viruses enter bodies now. The way in which it got into that original ancestor isn't important. What is important is that it infected an ancestor which is common to us and the other ape species, as demonstrated by being in the exact same place in our DNA as theirs.

 

[biggles53]

I'd post some links for you to read up on the subject, but I can't do that yet, as I apparently don't have enough posts up yet.

Try googling 'endogenous retroviruses' if you have an interest in learning more...

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
so are you saying that a human being procreated with an ape to get such a virus, a mark?

No, these 'marks' or imprints have been passed down in our genetic information from generation to generation, in the same way that you and I have inherited our eye colour, hair colour, height, etc from our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.

The original viral infection would have been the same mechanism as viruses enter bodies now. The way in which it got into that original ancestor isn't important. What is important is that it infected an ancestor which is common to us and the other ape species, as demonstrated by being in the exact same place in our DNA as theirs.

The original viral infection

interesting. an original viral infection?

The way in which it got into that original ancestor isn't important.

yes it is.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I would like to add something. Human beings are distinguished from 'animals' because we are created in the image of our Creator. Animals are not.

Even though we look and act exactly as if we evolved from a common ancestor will the other organisms on this planet?

 

[brinny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brinny
I would like to add something. Human beings are distinguished from 'animals' because we are created in the image of our Creator. Animals are not.

Even though we look and act exactly as if we evolved from a common ancestor will the other organisms on this planet?

no we don't.

 

[Skaloop]

We are more than just biological organisms. God formed us from the dust of the earth and breathed into us His breath of life, and we became a living soul. (that is awesome)

No, it's ridiculous.

 

[Skaloop]

retro huh? of what? and ge sumthin'? i must'a missed that one.

If you can't understand the words, then clearly you cannot understand the concept those words describe. It would be best, then, to not bother trying to argue against things about which you are wholly ignorant. The fact remains, endogenous retroviruses are extremely strong evidence in support of evolution, and entirely unexpected if humans were created fully separate from apes as you blindly attest. You are in no position to suggest otherwise.

 

[biggles53]

Originally Posted by brinny

so are you saying that a human being procreated with an ape to get such a virus, a mark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggles53

No, these 'marks' or imprints have been passed down in our genetic information from generation to generation, in the same way that you and I have inherited our eye colour, hair colour, height, etc from our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.

The original viral infection would have been the same mechanism as viruses enter bodies now. The way in which it got into that original ancestor isn't important. What is important is that it infected an ancestor which is common to us and the other ape species, as demonstrated by being in the exact same place in our DNA as theirs.

Quote:

The original viral infection

interesting. an original viral infection?

Quote:

The way in which it got into that original ancestor isn't important.

yes it is.

You seem to be (deliberately??) missing the point. Whether that ancient ancestor got a virus by having something sneeze on them, or through a cut, or because it was humping another infected animal is not the point!

The point is that the 'mark' left by that viral infection is shared, in exactly the same manner and location, by ourselves and other ape species. It shows that we are related to those other apes through that common ancestor.

Case closed.