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All I can say about the mass is that you really should pray and study about what it stands for. What it represents, and what transubstantiation really means, you will not find it in the bible.
The curious thing is that we were never under the Pope, and Adventist theology seems to be at a loss as how we could be, by Adventist standards, worse than Catholics, while not being under the rule of the chap you misidentify as the "Beast."
I am aware of the meaning of transubstantiation and the meaning of mass. I believe we understand Scripture differently on these issues.
Read John 6:22-69
I don't want any contention here but do you honestly believe that Jesus was telling His disciples to eat His physical flesh like cannibals? This just is not the case. The reason Jesus said it the way He did was to weed out those who were not serious about doing His work. He was showing that His work is that important.
In the early church, Christians celebrated Pascha on different days. We tried to use the same calculations used by the Jewish Passover. Some believed that Jesus died on Passover...others the day after. I think it is related to Sabbath and High Sabbath? The gospels aren't completely clear on this, as some seemed to say one day while others said another. Then, to top that off, calculations of Passover sometimes placed it before the Spring Equinox due to the Julian calendar creep. Because of this, a new calculation was determined. There needed to be a relationship with the Jewish Passover, since Jesus is our Passover, but we wanted it to be after the Spring Equinox like it was when Jesus died and resurrected. After all, the Torah prescribes it to be held "in the month of [the] spring" (בחדש האביב Exodus 23:15). We also wanted to all celebrate it at the same time. Also, as Jesus was resurrected on the "eighth" day (think about the first fruits, plus 1 Corinthians 15), we wanted to always celebrate it then, on the "day of resurrection ". Note that we calculate Pascha based on the Julian, not Gregorian, calendar. While Pascha may be in March on the Gregorian calendar, it is the equivalent of "April" on the Julian calendar.
If this isn't clear, please let me know...I'm tired and may not be as clear right now
ETA: I found the calendar change I was referencing...when a calculation with leap years was created in the 4th century. How Does the Spring Equinox Relate to the Timing of Passover? - About the Jewish Leap Year
John 4:23 testifies to the Truth that Jesus came as the Redeemer of the Hebrew Nation: to redeem an entire nation as a people group. No longer would earthlings worship in temples made with hands, following one ritual after another. He said quite clearly that the time (for transition) is now.
Through the Apostle Paul, He brought the Truth of God's Grace to everyone, everywhere, one-by-one, through each one's confession of Faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.
These are the central features of the Ministry of Jesus during His time on earth, and His witness to Paul after the Cross.
Click on this link for this wonderful Truth in scripture:
Content On: Worship (Personal)
May God add His Blessing to the reading of His Word.
Jesus claims that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. John 14:6 His followers obey His commandments and because they obey His commandments, God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) chooses to live within them. It is God's (through the Holy Spirit) continuing living presence within them which continues to save them.
John 15:10True worshipers obey the leaders of His Church because they speak for Him. Jesus appointed the first leaders of His Church.
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. rsv
See also: John 14:15, 1 John 3:24
Luke 10:16
“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” rsv
Romans 13:1-3The original leaders of the Christ's Church handed down the faith through apostolic succession and that is the way it is still done today. The Apostle Paul's command to Bishop Timothy:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. rsv
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you. rsv
2 Timothy 2:2
and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. rsv
One more note, we (Orthodox) still consider dusk the evening before to be the start of the day, so that definitely has an impact as well.Sorry for the delay. I was travelling this weekend.
Interesting...thanks for explaining it more to me. I'll have to look into the history of it. I appreciate your patience.
Where in the Bible did God say all of His statutes would change or be undone? The new covenant places His law on our hearts it does not do away with His statutes. Where is this claim biblically defined? It's not in Acts 15 as you claim, the gentiles coming in would be learning these thing in the synagogue where Moses was taught every Sabbath. Acts 15:21The New Covenant is for all people, both Jews and Greeks/Gentiles. It is true that God did promise a new covenant for the Jews in Jeremiah 31:31. But, Jesus did not come to earth to save only the Jews. Jesus did not come to earth to make Greeks/Gentiles into Jews.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, rsv
Christians are not ever grafted into Judaism. Both Jews (natural branches) and Gentiles (wild branches) are branches of the one Tree/Jesus Christ/kingdom of God. Jesus Christ's followers are called Christians. Acts 11:26
In Jesus Christ's kingdom, there is no distinction between Jews and Greeks/Gentiles. All are members of Christ's Body, His Bride, His Church. Acts 15:6-10
Because Christians do not ever become Jews, they will not be literally celebrating Sukkot after Jesus returns for His second coming. Everyone who is saved will be participating in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Where in the Bible did God say all of His statutes would change or be undone? The new covenant places His law on our hearts it does not do away with His statutes. Where is this claim biblically defined? It's not in Acts 15 as you claim, the gentiles coming in would be learning these thing in the synagogue where Moses was taught every Sabbath. Acts 15:21
The answer is that the early church, with good reason, knew that the Pharisees who took over Judaism changed the basis by which dates were reckoned, so Quartodecimianism became non-viable.
The Karaites for that matter also realized this, belatedly, and thus attempted to revert to their interpretation of the historical methodology.
Whether or not the Karaites got it right is of course irrelevant, because the Council of Nicea had ecumenical authority and solved the problem neatly by abandoning Quartodecimianism altogether. Quartodecimianism had really only been commonplace in parts of Asia Minor.
Yeshave you read Acts 15:21?
I agree with you, but I want to clarify one thing. What are Jesus' commands? Consider:
a) Psalm 119:1....Blessed are the undefiled in the WAY, who walk in the LAW OF GOD.
b) Psalm 119:142....Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your LAW is the TRUTH.
c) Proverbs 13:14....The LAW of the wise is a fountain of LIFE, to depart from the snares of death.
So, Jesus is the Law. Or rather, the Law points to Jesus. So, we should be showing our faith/belief/love for Jesus by obeying His commands, which are the Law.
Thanks for the replyOf course! I don't see that changing my point though. That is a fact stated there.
"For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
The pronouncement from the council is this:
"19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[d] from things strangled, and from blood. "
"28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well."
Notice that those are some of the key "Noahide" laws.
Please excuse my ignorance but I am really curious, how come Easter sounds nothing like Paschal but sounds a whole lot like all of these strange spring goddesses? How do we get Easter from Pascha or Pesach isn't it Passover in English? Why not call it Passover? Why change the date what is wrong with the 14th day of the first month of the Hebrew calendar?Aye, she's completely unknown outside of this obscure reference, and her function as a goddess is inferred by her name (some scholars speculating that eostre comes from "to rise" or "dawn"; so we're not even completely sure what she was a goddess of).
And here's what Bede actually wrote on it (which is even less information):
"De Temporum Ratione" Chapter XV: De mensibus Anglorum (About English Months)
Eostur-monath, qui nunc paschalis mensis interpretetur, quondam a dea illorum quae Eostre vocabatur, et cui in illo festa celebrabant, nomen habuit, a cuius nomine nunc paschale tempus cognominant; consueto antiquae observationis vocabulo gaudia novae solemnitatis vocantes.
I translate (albeit off the cuff):
Easter-month, which is now interpreted "Paschal month", and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honor feasts were celebrated. They [the English/Anglo-saxon converts to Christianity] now named the Paschal Season by that name, calling the joys of the new feast by the name of the old/antiquated observance.
It seems that the only thing they kept was the name of the season.
My belief (and again we can agree to disagree) is that there are laws that were specific to the people of Israel (not to be confused with "spiritual Israel" or any other way of describing the New Covenant. The rest of my post refers to this description.). Paul repeatedly refers to the law being written on our hearts. Would you agree?Thanks for the reply
According to the logic that the gentiles coming into the faith only keep those commands then they can murder, covet, dishonor parents, take the Lord's name in vain, lie, and break the rest of Gods instructions? How does that really work. Doesn't it make more sense that those coming into the faith refrain from those "noahide commandments" as you stated it and learn the rest of Gods instructions when Moses is read in the synagogue every Shabbat?
I believe that when we believe and repent we receive His Spirit Acts 2:38 Once we receive the gift it helps us to walk in righteousness. Sin is transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. When we read and hear His Word and we act and do contrary to it after we know it the spirit will grieve us. Paul said I have not known sin except by the law without the law I would not have known covetousness. Sorry I paraphrased that it may not be word for word.Paul repeatedly refers to the law being written on our hearts. Would you agree?
I would agree, with the exception of believing that the New Testament context references the fulfilled law - the law written on our hearts. We still have the "law", but not in the same context of the strict Mosaic law. Rather it is in the context of the spiritual law written on our hearts upon rebirth and regeneration. After all, Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. We must follow the fulfilled law of Christ.I believe that when we believe and repent we receive His Spirit Acts 2:38 Once we receive the gift it helps us to walk in righteousness. Sin is transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4. When we read and hear His Word and we act and do contrary to it after we know it the spirit will grieve us. Paul said I have not known sin except by the law without the law I would not have known covetousness. Sorry I paraphrased that it may not be word for word.
Friend - Jesus came against the Pharisees adding things to Gods law and teaching law while being hypocrites. He said himself I have not come to abolish the law and the prophets Matthew 5:17. These noahide laws you are speaking of where is this biblical? Also where is the law carved up into 3 parts moral ceremonial and social. Those things are not exactly Biblical. The Bible I read does not carve up and justify not keeping Gods instructions nor does it classify anything like noahide laws for gentiles only. I am not sure where you have embarked on those doctrines but I have never come across them in the Bible. If you can point me to where the Bible devides up the law I will stand corrected.However, there were a set of rules given to the people of Israel, in particular the sacrificial laws and to an extent, the Mosaic laws - especially in the legalistic form found by many of the teachers of the Jewish faith at the time of Jesus.
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