Are we all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...?

[Neogaia777]

So when you sin (all are sinners and fall short) do you think that the holy God causes you to do what is unholy, or is it your choice? Do you choose to repent or do you think God makes you repent? The bible speaks of God being a jealous God and an angry God. Do you think it is righteous for a holy god to be jealous and angry at people for doing what he made them do?

I did not say God "causes" anything, merely that he created it to be the way it is, and that he knows all about it all, is all...

The scriptures say that God "leads us" to repentance... What that means, I do not know...?

As far as God being "jealous", "angry", or "whatever"... I'm talking about God the Father here, not God the Son BTW...

God Bless!

 

[JIMINZ]

Possibly, I don't know...?

That's what I'm trying to "get at" here...?

Can we know either way...?

And if we can, what does that mean for us...?

God Bless!

What I'm seeing is, you being non-committal.

I asked a direct question, are you using the word Predict, as a synonym for Predetermine?
"Possibly, I don't know...?" is not an acceptable answer, you do have an opinion, if you don't, then your are stuck in the same place you started when you asked your first question.

Without your expressing your beliefs, you cannot move from one point to another because it might be the wrong move, and you won't ever know if it was right or not because you won't decide what is right for you to do.

Therefore NO, God does not Predetermine your future, He is able to know the possibilities of your decisions based upon your past, there is a greater chance you will do in the future what you have always done in the past, unless you purposefully change your way of doing things, then He will still know because He is God.

But did He make you make the decision, No.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to act upon that opinion.

 

[JIMINZ]

The scriptures say that God "leads us" to repentance... What that means, I do not know...?

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Eph. 2:8,9
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God wants to give us the gift of His Grace.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I did not say God "causes" anything, merely that he created it to be the way it is, and that he knows all about it all, is all...

The scriptures say that God "leads us" to repentance... What that means, I do not know...?

As far as God being "jealous", "angry", or "whatever"... I'm talking about God the Father here, not God the Son BTW...

God Bless!

As a father I have seen my kids try to do something and know it will fail. I have let them do it and made sure I am there so they don't get hurt and to stop them and show them the right way to do it. Just because I could see what would happen didn't mean I made them do it. I think God is like that as well, He can see what we will do but does not make us do it.

God leads us into repentance by giving us conviction in our spirit. If you do not know what that means I suggest you try to get closer to God and to know and recognise Him more.

Jesus said "I and the Father are one" and "If you have seen me you have seen the Father".

 

[JIMINZ]

......

 

[Neogaia777]

What I'm seeing is, you being non-committal.

Possibly, I like to know what I'm committing to first...

I asked a direct question, are you using the word Predict, as a synonym for Predetermine?

Again, possibly...

"Possibly, I don't know...?" is not an acceptable answer, you do have an opinion, if you don't, then your are stuck in the same place you started when you asked your first question.

Yes, that much may be true... I have not fully formulated and absolute opinion on this yet, that's why I am wishing to discuss it on here... But, I am finding myself drawing closer and closer to the "opinion" I guess you could say, that God, the Father at least, does know all and can fully predict all (us, everything) from the very beginning all the way up to now...

Without your expressing your beliefs, you cannot move from one point to another because it might be the wrong move, and you won't ever know if it was right or not because you won't decide what is right for you to do.

Oh, I do have certain beliefs, that I'd guess you could call "opinions", just not on this fully, yet, is all...

Therefore NO, God does not Predetermine your future, He is able to know the possibilities of your decisions based upon your past, there is a greater chance you will do in the future what you have always done in the past, unless you purposefully change your way of doing things, then He will still know because He is God.

This statement is a contradiction... He does not predetermine or pre-know our future, but he does...? How does that work...?

But did He make you make the decision, No.

Again, no, he did not make the decision or cause anything, he just simply made it all the way it is, and knows all about it all, including our decisions, what makes us, us, ect...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to act upon that opinion.

But are we really formulating and acting upon an "opinion" of our own, or is it all the result of "programming"...?

God Bless!

 

[JIMINZ]

But are we really formulating and acting upon an "opinion" of our own, or is it all the result of "programming"...?

God Bless!

What are you calling programming?

 

[Neogaia777]

As a father I have seen my kids try to do something and know it will fail. I have let them do it and made sure I am there so they don't get hurt and to stop them and show them the right way to do it. Just because I could see what would happen didn't mean I made them do it. I think God is like that as well, He can see what we will do but does not make us do it.

I commented on this already... No, he does make us do or cause anything we do to happen, he just simply created it all the way it is and knows all about it, fully and completely...

Good to know you know God based on the interpretation of a man, or men though...

God leads us into repentance by giving us conviction in our spirit. If you do not know what that means I suggest you try to get closer to God and to know and recognise Him more.

Yes, I do know that much, you know...

Jesus said "I and the Father are one" and "If you have seen me you have seen the Father".

They are one, but were not always equal or the exact same in every way... I've discussed this in other threads and do not wish to get into it here...

Just know that in this thread, when I speak of God, I am talking about God the Father, and not so much God the Son, and if you don't know what I mean by that, I suggest you research it/that more...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What are you calling programming?

Any and all "influences that affect our decisions" or decision making processes, that I believe God knows completely and fully all about...

God Bless!

 

[JIMINZ]

I commented on this already... No, he does make us do or cause anything we do to happen, he just simply created it all the way it is and knows all about it, fully and completely...

When you say things like this, are you saying our lives, the world as it is now, is something on the order of "The Matrix"?


Do you have kids?

 

[Neogaia777]

When you say things like this, are you saying our lives, the world as it is now

Any and all of the above, yes....

Do you have kids?

Yes, they are older now though...

God Bless!

 

[JIMINZ]

Any and all of the above, yes....



Yes, they are older now though...

God Bless!

Now we might be getting somewhere.

Let's go back to the beginning. GENESIS

If God created everything the way it is, why would He program Adam and Eve to fail?



Why did He destroy the world in a Flood, did He Program the people to sin so He could destroy them, then explain why Noah didn't do like everyone else was doing, and ENOCH as well God took him?

Why did He confound the Language?

You see, there are exceptions to the Matrix rule, but that doesn't happen in a Matrix, everyone is programmed to do what they do.

God gave DOMINION to mankind, that Dominion is the ability to order our lives, from us as individuals, to whole Societies, Countries, and Globally like the United Nations.

People like to call that Free Will But that is another discussion, but right now let it suffice to say, Mankind does have free will but only in relation to ordering his life.

Look at the Beaver, he is the only animal besides man which has the ability to create his own world, environment, he has Dominion over his destiny, when the water source dries up or the pond gets clogged and overflows faster than he can repair, he moves on and begins again.

Mankind does the same thing he continually repairs the breaches in the fabric of his life, he makes compromises to keep the peace, like this thing with Korea.

The world isn't programmed to fail, but when it does, it will be totally because of Mankind and the decisions he has made.

It is now 6:35am on this side of the Country, and the sun is about to come up. I will say goodnight and God Bless, good talking to you, see you tomorrow, unless I am programmed to do something else,

 

[Neogaia777]

Now we might be getting somewhere.

Let's go back to the beginning. GENESIS

If God created everything the way it is, why would He program Adam and Eve to fail?

My guess is that, so, in the end, he could bring about something much better, but that's just me...

Why did He destroy the world in a Flood, did He Program the people to sin so He could destroy them, then explain why Noah didn't do like everyone else was doing, and ENOCH as well God took him?

You have to understand the difference between God the Father, and God the Son...

God the Son was the one who destroyed them and did everything as our God in the OT...

Why did He confound the Language?

You see, there are exceptions to the Matrix rule, but that doesn't happen in a Matrix, everyone is programmed to do what they do.

God gave DOMINION to mankind, that Dominion is the ability to order our lives, from us as individuals, to whole Societies, Countries, and Globally like the United Nations.

People like to call that Free Will But that is another discussion, but right now let it suffice to say, Mankind does have free will but only in relation to ordering his life.

Look at the Beaver, he is the only animal besides man which has the ability to create his own world, environment, he has Dominion over his destiny, when the water source dries up or the pond gets clogged and overflows faster than he can repair, he moves on and begins again.

Mankind does the same thing he continually repairs the breaches in the fabric of his life, he makes compromises to keep the peace, like this thing with Korea.

The world isn't programmed to fail, but when it does, it will be totally because of Mankind and the decisions he has made.

It is now 6:35am on this side of the Country, and the sun is about to come up. I will say goodnight and God Bless, good talking to you, see you tomorrow, unless I am programmed to do something else,

Again, God the Father and God the Son, it was all made for God the Son, us, Adam and Eve, this world, everything...

It all belongs to and was made for God the Son... To do whatever he wished and willed to do with it all... And, so, he did...

If you do not understand the difference that exists, or used to exist between them, your gonna have a very hard time understanding this...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

My guess is that, so, in the end, he could bring about something much better, but that's just me...



You have to understand the difference between God the Father, and God the Son...

God the Son was the one who destroyed them and did everything as our God in the OT...


Again, God the Father and God the Son, it was all made for God the Son, us, Adam and Eve, this world, everything...

It all belongs to and was made for God the Son... To do whatever he wished and willed to do with it all... And, so, he did...

If you do not understand the difference that exists, or used to exist between them, your gonna have a very hard time understanding this...

God Bless!

These threads might help with that...

Was or is YHWH, or the God that interacted with men in the OT 100% completely omniscient...?

If absolutely everything is predestined, and there is no choice, then wouldn't all have to be saved?

Knowing the "heart" (and mind maybe) of God...?

Pay special attention to some of the conclusions reached in those threads near or at the end of them...

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Are we all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...? Or are all our life choices based on, or are all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...?

"All of us" say, all the way up to "now" or not...?

Is our life(s) one big equation...? All the result of prior conditioning or programming....? And choice really an illusion, or can be all predicted, and is entirely predictable, at least, or not...?

If you had someone else's life down to "every single smallest experience or condition", would you "be them" basically...? And would you make all the same exact choices they did in their lives...? Or is there something that separates us and makes us all different in some way, with "choices"...? And even if we did have all their conditions and experiences down to the smallest degree, would we might have done it differently, regardless of that...? Or not...?

For example Adam and Eve... If you were Adam and/or Eve, would you have done it, or chose differently, or not...?

And all of the peoples choices after that, all a result of everything prior to that, or not...?

Comments...?

Even and including prior conditions of even in the womb, or prior preexisting hereditary or genetic conditions even... If you had all the exact same (conditions, conditioning, experiences) as someone else, would you be like them, or exactly like them, basically... In all their life choices after that and "everything" basically...?

Or is there something that separates us and makes us different that way...?

Or are we all really only following "one big program" basically...? All the way up to "now" basically...? And are all entirely predictable say, by a God...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Given that there are always differences, then no.

 

[Neogaia777]

Given that there are always differences, then no.

God does not fully know "all" those differences...?

Before anything was ever made, or done, or anything...?

He does not know (all of) that...?

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

God does not fully know "all" those differences...?

Before anything was ever made, or done, or anything...?

He does not know (all of) that...?

God Bless!

God plans and executes each moment.
He even checks on the starlight so that it will be there
when you are scheduled to look up.

 

[Neogaia777]

God plans and executes each moment.
He even checks on the starlight so that it will be there
when you are scheduled to look up.

Boy do I know a thing or two about that... (multiple, very well timed, "coincidences" with shooting stars, ect, that kind of thing)...

All showing me that he knew all way ahead of time, when I was going to "look up" right at that/those times, and in those exact moments, that sort of thing...

God Bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Boy do I know a thing or two about that... (multiple, very well timed, "coincidences" with shooting stars, ect, that kind of thing)...

All showing me that he knew all way ahead of time, when I was going to "look up" right at that/those times, and in those exact moments, that sort of thing...

God Bless!

That is what I discovered as well. Pray for God to work
in your life, becasue that is going to happen no matter what.

 

[SteveIndy]

Are we all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...? Or are all our life choices based on, or are all the result of (prior) conditioning or programming...?

"All of us" say, all the way up to "now" or not...?

Is our life(s) one big equation...? All the result of prior conditioning or programming....? And choice really an illusion, or can be all predicted, and is entirely predictable, at least, or not...?

If you had someone else's life down to "every single smallest experience or condition", would you "be them" basically...? And would you make all the same exact choices they did in their lives...? Or is there something that separates us and makes us all different in some way, with "choices"...? And even if we did have all their conditions and experiences down to the smallest degree, would we might have done it differently, regardless of that...? Or not...?

For example Adam and Eve... If you were Adam and/or Eve, would you have done it, or chose differently, or not...?

And all of the peoples choices after that, all a result of everything prior to that, or not...?

Comments...?

Even and including prior conditions of even in the womb, or prior preexisting hereditary or genetic conditions even... If you had all the exact same (conditions, conditioning, experiences) as someone else, would you be like them, or exactly like them, basically... In all their life choices after that and "everything" basically...?

Or is there something that separates us and makes us different that way...?

Or are we all really only following "one big program" basically...? All the way up to "now" basically...? And are all entirely predictable say, by a God...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

The human animal is really no different than other animals in regards to being conditioned by society and peer influence. When we are born our database is empty and we begin to accumulate data by trial and error and by association. We do have certain pre-programmed instincts that drive us but those too can be influenced by society. Each person takes the data and processes it differently. As we collect data through trial and error that data acts as a filter through which later data must pass and be evaluated. All of this data is formed into all the things and idea that we "presuppose" to be true about life, and that is why each individual sees differently although born into an exact situation as someone else. It is the minutia of detail that personalizes the code of our brains and makes us all different.

Then, enters Truth at conversion. Since our database is corrupted because of our inability to compute the data properly and draw the proper conclusions an outside force was needed if we are to ever realize what "truth" is. God became a man and entered onto the stage of life to show mankind how to disinfect their hearts (database) and how to draw the right conclusions. Mankind was given the choice as to whether or not to load the new program and re-write the data so that his presuppositions would be over-written. Still, for most who admitted they need help and accepted the offer, they secretly hid their old presuppositions to assist them in the event a contingency plan was needed. These people immediately started to decode the new program by adding "what if" scenarios to cover any contingencies that lacked appeal, like, loving their enemies, over-coming evil with good, resisting not the evil person, etc..

Consequently, there are no two databases alike, each has its own personality. Even two people born into exact situations will after much data has been logged diverge and travel separate roads. It is impossible for there to be two exact databases, all are corrupted by the minutia of sin.