Are they with Jesus now or asleep until he raise them later?

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Those who have passed away recently or long time ago.....are they with Jesus in heaven right now? Looking down on us?
Or are they still in sleep and will be raised when Jesus returns?

Often times we see in movies or hear in stories and interviews that so and so passed away and they are looking down at them from
heaven right now. Is there any biblical truth to this? Is my grandmother watching over me and protecting me or watching my football games
or....etc etc.

So long as they believed in Jesus and asked forgiveness for their sins they are indeed in Heaven and it is biblical.

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,"

Hebrews 12:1

That cloud of witnesses are people in Heaven looking down at us. So yes they see your football game

 

[Mark Quayle]

So long as they believed in Jesus and asked forgiveness for their sins they are indeed in Heaven and it is biblical.

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,"

Hebrews 12:1

That cloud of witnesses are people in Heaven looking down at us. So yes they see your football game

Contextually, that sounds more like they are witnesses to God's work and relevance during their lives. Read the context. It doesn't say they are looking at us. Whether it is true or not that they ARE looking down on us, that isn't what that verse is talking about.

 

[Clare73]

Agreed, but so that @GDL doesn't complain about me cheering only, I want to ask an explanation, not just of @Clare73 but of @Davy , @timothyu , @Trivalee , @ViaCrucis , or anyone —Why did Christ, after his resurrection, say not to touch him yet, because he had not yet returned to the Father? And, is the question relevant to this discussion?

How about she must not "touch" as in cling to him. She must have a different relationship with the ascended Christ.

P.S. And don't forget the cheer.

 

[Mark Quayle]

How about she must not "touch" as in cling to him. She must a different relationship with the ascended Christ.

P.S. And don't forget the cheer.

YAY!

Can you explain that a little differently? I'm not sure I follow. Though I'm guessing you would say it's not particularly relevant to the discussion

Though it does sound like one explanation I have heard —a matter of propriety, concerning male/female?

When he told Thomas to touch him, had he ascended yet?

Did he or did he not return to earth, in the gospel accounts or elsewhere, after returning to his father? When was he in his glorified body?

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Contextually, that sounds more like they are witnesses to God's work and relevance during their lives. Read the context. It doesn't say they are looking at us. Whether it is true or not that they ARE looking down on us, that isn't what that verse is talking about.

I refuse to be discouraged or believe the verse means anything other than there is a cloud of witnesses in Heaven looking at us.

"
37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneerand perfecter of faith."

Nowhere in there does it somehow mean what you said, i don't see how what you said even makes sense.

 

[Clare73]

YAY!

Can you explain that a little differently? I'm not sure I follow. Though I'm guessing you would say it's not particularly relevant to the discussion

Though it does sound like one explanation I have heard...

She must have a spiritual non-physical relationship with him when he returns to heaven.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I refuse to be discouraged or believe the verse means anything other than there is a cloud of witnesses in Heaven looking at us.

"
37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneerand perfecter of faith."

Nowhere in there does it somehow mean what you said, i don't see how what you said even makes sense.

Your list of things done to them, by them, in them, etc, are the things God has put them through, yet they persevered without even receiving the promise. They are witnesses to those things, and to God's faithfulness. That doesn't say they are witnessing what is going on with us. It doesn't say that "they are up there looking down on us."

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Your list of things done to them, by them, in them, etc, are the things God has put them through, yet they persevered without even receiving the promise. They are witnesses to those things, and to God's faithfulness. That doesn't say they are witnessing what is going on with us. It doesn't say that "they are up there looking down on us."

So who are the witnesses then? And if you have an answer where does it specify in the Bible to confirm that?

Also where in the Bible does it contradict that people in Heaven can look down on us? How is any of what I said not Biblical? And is it worth it to point out that I am wrong if in fact that is purely your opinion and not supported by scripture?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Agreed, but so that @GDL doesn't complain about me cheering only, I want to ask an explanation, not just of @Clare73 but of @Davy , @timothyu , @Trivalee , @ViaCrucis , or anyone —Why did Christ, after his resurrection, say not to touch him yet, because he had not yet returned to the Father? And, is the question relevant to this discussion?

As much as Mary wanted to cling to Jesus, He had to remind her that He would have to leave, He would ascend and take up His throne at the right hand of the Father.

The word here in Greek means "to cling to" or "to adhere to" or "to fasten to" moreso than mere touch. Mary was overjoyed that her Lord was risen, so she wanted to hold onto Him. We can surmise how deeply emotional this scene was, her Rabboni was back, and she was going to cling to Him because she didn't want Him to go again. But He told her, plainly, that this time with Him would be short, He would be ascending back to the Father in glory.

Jesus wasn't being callous here, but He did want her to know that He couldn't stay with her and the others forever down here. He had, after all, said so, reminding His followers that the time would come when He would no longer be with them, but that He wasn't abandoning them, leaving them as orphans, but would send the Holy Spirit and be with them through the Holy Spirit. And at the Great Commission He again said He would be with them always, until the end of the age.

But things were going to be different, He had to take up His seat at the right hand of the Father, the Son of Man receiving kingdom, power, and authority from the Ancient of Days, to reign until all things are accomplished and then He returns as judge of the living and the dead.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Mark Quayle]

As much as Mary wanted to cling to Jesus, He had to remind her that He would have to leave, He would ascend and take up His throne at the right hand of the Father.

The word here in Greek means "to cling to" or "to adhere to" or "to fasten to" moreso than mere touch. Mary was overjoyed that her Lord was risen, so she wanted to hold onto Him. We can surmise how deeply emotional this scene was, her Rabboni was back, and she was going to cling to Him because she didn't want Him to go again. But He told her, plainly, that this time with Him would be short, He would be ascending back to the Father in glory.

Jesus wasn't being callous here, but He did want her to know that He couldn't stay with her and the others forever down here. He had, after all, said so, reminding His followers that the time would come when He would no longer be with them, but that He wasn't abandoning them, leaving them as orphans, but would send the Holy Spirit and be with them through the Holy Spirit. And at the Great Commission He again said He would be with them always, until the end of the age.

But things were going to be different, He had to take up His seat at the right hand of the Father, the Son of Man receiving kingdom, power, and authority from the Ancient of Days, to reign until all things are accomplished and then He returns as judge of the living and the dead.

-CryptoLutheran

It sounds like you believe, then, that he did not return to the father between his resurrection and his public ascension after 40 days. Am I right?

 

[ViaCrucis]

It sounds like you believe, then, that he did not return to the father between his resurrection and his public ascension after 40 days. Am I right?

No, I don't believe He ascended before He ascended.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Davy]

I have little patience with people who jump into a discussion and copy and paste irrelevant texts that have no nothing to do with the topic under discussion.

No, you don't like being shown how you don't stay with the Scripture as written, and instead try to push some foreign doctrine that isn't in God's written Word. No one serious about God's Word would reject any... poster presenting Scripture evidence, but you do, which tells me you're not here to support God's Word, but instead your own word.

 

[Davy]

Keeping in mind that according to all NT teaching, only the redeemed sons of God are in Christ.

Now trying to re-coup your credibility in the Scriptures I see? What I posted is per God's Word 'as written'. So be careful, or I'll embarrass your lack of Scripture understanding again.

In both texts, the meaning is, "all those in Adam (i.e., his descendants) die. . . . .made sinners,
while all those in Christ (i.e., who are related to him by faith) will be made alive. . . . .righteous.

NOPE! By that you just TRIED to make the fact that ALL men die because of Adam's sin to mean Adam's seed ONLY. Your idea is a bunch of balderdash, and not written in God's Word! Apostle Paul was pointing to ALL MEN (AND WOMEN) BORN IN THE FLESH, not specifically Adam's seed.

Strike 1 against you for pushing falseness.

#2) Likewise, according to Paul's usage of the words:

natural - sinful, mortal, weak,
spiritual - (of the Holy Spirit) sinless, immortal, perfect (Paul does not mean immaterial, non-physical here, as spiritual is commonly used),
flesh - natural body (sinful, mortal, weak)--1 Co 15:50

the natural physical body (prior to death) is sinful, mortal, weak, and
the spiritual physical body (of the resurrection of those in Christ) is sinless, immortal, perfect.

Apostle Paul WAS NOT CONTRASTING MORAL CONCEPTS in 1 Corinthians 15:44. He was contrasting BODY TYPES, the flesh body vs. the future glorious spiritual body.

1 Cor 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

And when one gets to verse 50, like you quoted above, the subject is that no one can inherit God's future Kingdom by flesh and blood, pointing to the flesh "natural body" Paul was pointing to.

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

But you had the audacity... to speak the following false idea about the word "spiritual" against that very 1 Cor.15:44 verse above...

Clare73 said:
"(Paul does not mean immaterial, non-physical here, as spiritual is commonly used)"

You even used the word "non-physical", intentionally trying to scoot around the fact that Paul is speaking of the "spiritual body" as being of Spirit, NON-FLESH. And that is why... Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God in verse 50 that you also tried to use! The word "immaterial" in case you don't know what that word means, it means NON-FLESH AND BLOOD, not earthly material matter to get technical about it.

So strike 2 against you're not staying with the written Scripture.

Paul neither treats of the resurrection of, nor presents a description of the resurrection bodies of, those not in Christ and who are damned.

Well yeah, Paul did, and I revealed it. It is with those 4 Greek words of 1 Cor.15:53 that I translated per the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. You simply failed to pay attention to it and understand its meaning. You probably still won't understand the simply breakdown of that verse below that I will do for you, but still it's up to you whether you believe what Paul was pointing to in the Greek there, or not...

1 Cor 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible (flesh body state) must put on incorruption ("spiritual body", a heavenly type body), and this mortal (liable to die soul) must put on immortality (deathlessness, eternal life in Christ Jesus).
(words in black my emphasis)


Apostle Paul above was pointing to TWO TYPES OF CHANGES that MUST happen in order to have eternal life through Jesus Christ.

1) one's material flesh "corruptible" body must be "changed" to the "spiritual body".

AND

2) one's mortal liable to perish mortal soul MUST put on "immortality" through Faith on Jesus Christ and receive eternal life.

That's TWO TYPES OF CHANGES, not one like you are used to thinking.


54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."
KJV

In the above, Paul even REPEATS that idea in verse 53. And then says only then by going through BOTH CHANGES... will the saying in Isaiah 25, "Death is swallowed up in victory" be true.

You DO realize Paul was quoting from Isaiah 25 with that "Death is swallowed up in victory", don't you?

So now, think for a moment about those TWO REQUIRED CHANGES Paul revealed that MUST happen in order to be part of Christ's Salvation. And we CANNOT JUST THROW OUT understanding in the REST of The New Testament just because Paul didn't make a specific statement about the unsaved here in 1 Cor.15!

So think for yourself for a moment. If a soul DOES NOT GO THROUGH THAT 2ND CHANGE, of "this mortal" putting on "immortality", then WHO does that mean?? It means the UNSAVED. How? Because in Revelation 20 we are told about ONLY those of the "first resurrection" are saved when Jesus comes and starts His future Millennial reign over the unsaved nations. It even reveals a place of separation for Christ's elect upon the earth from the nations called "the camp of the saints"! (Revelation 20:9)

And don't you remember the spiritually dead metaphors that Lord Jesus used in The Gospel? He said about the blind scribes and Pharisees how they were like whited tombs that appear nice and clean on the outside, but inside were full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). And in another place, Jesus said they were like graves that men walk over, and are not aware of them (Luke 11:44). That is about the idea of the 'spiritually dead', those whose soul's are in a liable to die (NT:2348 - thnetos) state still subject to being cast into the future "lake of fire". That means the UNSAVED. And that is what the Rev.20 idea of the "second death" is about.

So even though Paul does not spell out specific words in 1 Cor.15 about the wicked unsaved souls, he was pointing to them INDIRECTLY with showing those TWO TYPES OF CHANGES of verse 53-54 that one MUST go through in order to have eternal life through Christ Jesus.

And it is a SIMPLE matter of understanding that the UNSAVED will NOT have their still liable to die souls put on immortality without Christ Jesus. So there's Paul pointing to the wicked spiritually dead. And the spiritually dead, meaning those who still reject Jesus Christ and are UNSAVED, that is even who the "dead" are in Rev.20:5. In that future Millennium reign by Christ, all... will be in the "spiritual body" type, but the UNSAVED will still have liable to die souls, because of not having Faith on Jesus Christ. We know that cannot apply to the "first resurrection" in Christ who will have gone through BOTH changes no.1 and no.2, and have eternal life through Faith on Jesus Christ. All this may sound difficult, but it's really not.

 

[Davy]

Agreed, but so that @GDL doesn't complain about me cheering only, I want to ask an explanation, not just of @Clare73 but of @Davy , @timothyu , @Trivalee , @ViaCrucis , or anyone —Why did Christ, after his resurrection, say not to touch him yet, because he had not yet returned to the Father? And, is the question relevant to this discussion?

I think it is very relevant.

What Jesus said there reveals to me is that His flesh body was indeed raised, but was not yet transfigured to the "quickening spirit" state of the heavenly that Apostle Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15:45.

We are given this following small revelation also when Lord Jesus died on the cross...

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

Those are small phrases in red, but very important time markers.

Because Paul in 1 Cor.15:45 and Peter in 1 Peter 3:18-19 both pointed to Jesus being "quickened" by The Spirit, that with the above suggests that at some point His raised flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly state in order to preach The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", and lead out those saints who believed. And thus some of those I believe are those saints that slept which arose there and appeared to many in Jerusalem.

The Isaiah 42:6-7 Scripture is about the time of Christ's 1st coming, and verse 7 is pointing to His leading out the prisoners that sat in darkness out of the "prison house", which I have no doubt was about that 1 Peter 3 of His preaching of The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", and releasing those who believed.

What that further suggests... is that by the time He appeared to His disciples in Luke 24:36-43, His flesh body had already been transfigured to the heavenly state. This would make sense too by the fact that He appeared suddenly in their midst out of nowhere, which a flesh body cannot do. At this point because He told His disciples to touch and handle Him, it also suggests that He had already ascended to The Father with His flesh being changed, made "a quickening spirit" Paul said.

 

[Clare73]

Now trying to re-coup your credibility in the Scriptures I see? What I posted is per God's Word 'as written'. So be careful, or I'll embarrass your lack of Scripture understanding again.
NOPE! By that you just TRIED to make the fact that ALL men die because of Adam's sin to mean Adam's seed ONLY. Your idea is a bunch of balderdash, and not written in God's Word! Apostle Paul was pointing to ALL MEN (AND WOMEN) BORN IN THE FLESH, not specifically Adam's seed.
Strike 1 against you for pushing falseness.

Strike 1 against you for not understanding the NT in light of all the NT.

Apostle Paul WAS NOT CONTRASTING MORAL CONCEPTS in 1 Corinthians 15:44. He was contrasting BODY TYPES, the flesh body vs. the future glorious spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. KJV
And when one gets to verse 50, like you quoted above, the subject is that no one can inherit God's future Kingdom by flesh and blood, pointing to the flesh "natural body" Paul was pointing to.
1 Cor 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. KJV
But you had the audacity... to speak the following false idea about the word "spiritual" against that very 1 Cor.15:44 verse above...
Clare73 said:
"(Paul does not mean immaterial, non-physical here, as spiritual is commonly used)"

You even used the word "non-physical", intentionally trying to scoot around the fact that Paul is speaking of the "spiritual body" as being of Spirit, NON-FLESH. And that is why... Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God in verse 50 that you also tried to use! The word "immaterial" in case you don't know what that word means, it means NON-FLESH AND BLOOD, not earthly material matter to get technical about it.
So strike 2 against you're not staying with the written Scripture.

Strike 2 for not doing your homework on Paul's use of "spiritual" and "flesh."

Well yeah, Paul did, and I revealed it. It is with those 4 Greek words of 1 Cor.15:53 that I translated per the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. You simply failed to pay attention to it and understand its meaning. You probably still won't understand the simply breakdown of that verse below that I will do for you, but still it's up to you whether you believe what Paul was pointing to in the Greek there, or not...
1 Cor 15:53-54 - For this corruptible (flesh body state) must put on incorruption ("spiritual body", a heavenly type body), and this mortal (liable to die soul) must put on immortality (deathlessness, eternal life in Christ Jesus).
(words in black my emphasis)

Apostle Paul above was pointing to TWO TYPES OF CHANGES that MUST happen in order to have eternal life through Jesus Christ.
1) one's material flesh "corruptible" body must be "changed" to the "spiritual body". AND
2) one's mortal liable to perish mortal soul MUST put on "immortality" through Faith on Jesus Christ and receive eternal life.

That's TWO TYPES OF CHANGES, not one like you are used to thinking.

With no NT basis for "mortal" referring to "soul."

What is your meaning of "soul?"

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."
KJV

In the above, Paul even REPEATS that idea in verse 53. And then says only then by going through BOTH CHANGES... will the saying in Isaiah 25, "Death is swallowed up in victory" be true.

You DO realize Paul was quoting from Isaiah 25 with that "Death is swallowed up in victory", don't you?

So now, think for a moment about those TWO REQUIRED CHANGES Paul revealed that MUST happen in order to be part of Christ's Salvation. And we CANNOT JUST THROW OUT understanding in the REST of The New Testament just because Paul didn't make a specific statement about the unsaved here in 1 Cor.15!

So think for yourself for a moment. If a soul DOES NOT GO THROUGH THAT 2ND CHANGE, of "this mortal" putting on "immortality", then WHO does that mean?? It means the UNSAVED. How? Because in Revelation 20 we are told about ONLY those of the "first resurrection" are saved when Jesus comes and starts His future Millennial reign over the unsaved nations. It even reveals a place of separation for Christ's elect upon the earth from the nations called "the camp of the saints"! (Revelation 20:9)

And don't you remember the spiritually dead metaphors that Lord Jesus used in The Gospel? He said about the blind scribes and Pharisees how they were like whited tombs that appear nice and clean on the outside, but inside were full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). And in another place, Jesus said they were like graves that men walk over, and are not aware of them (Luke 11:44). That is about the idea of the 'spiritually dead', those whose soul's are in a liable to die (NT:2348 - thnetos) state still subject to being cast into the future "lake of fire". That means the UNSAVED. And that is what the Rev.20 idea of the "second death" is about.

So even though Paul does not spell out specific words in 1 Cor.15 about the wicked unsaved souls, he was pointing to them INDIRECTLY with showing those TWO TYPES OF CHANGES of verse 53-54 that one MUST go through in order to have eternal life through Christ Jesus.

And it is a SIMPLE matter of understanding that the UNSAVED will NOT have their still liable to die souls put on immortality without Christ Jesus. So there's Paul pointing to the wicked spiritually dead. And the spiritually dead, meaning those who still reject Jesus Christ and are UNSAVED, that is even who the "dead" are in Rev.20:5. In that future Millennium reign by Christ, all... will be in the "spiritual body" type, but the UNSAVED will still have liable to die souls, because of not having Faith on Jesus Christ. We know that cannot apply to the "first resurrection" in Christ who will have gone through BOTH changes no.1 and no.2, and have eternal life through Faith on Jesus Christ. All this may sound difficult, but it's really not.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think it is very relevant.

What Jesus said there reveals to me is that His flesh body was indeed raised, but was not yet transfigured to the "quickening spirit" state of the heavenly that Apostle Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15:45.

We are given this following small revelation also when Lord Jesus died on the cross...

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

Those are small phrases in red, but very important time markers.

Because Paul in 1 Cor.15:45 and Peter in 1 Peter 3:18-19 both pointed to Jesus being "quickened" by The Spirit, that with the above suggests that at some point His raised flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly state in order to preach The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", and lead out those saints who believed. And thus some of those I believe are those saints that slept which arose there and appeared to many in Jerusalem.

The Isaiah 42:6-7 Scripture is about the time of Christ's 1st coming, and verse 7 is pointing to His leading out the prisoners that sat in darkness out of the "prison house", which I have no doubt was about that 1 Peter 3 of His preaching of The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", and releasing those who believed.

What that further suggests... is that by the time He appeared to His disciples in Luke 24:36-43, His flesh body had already been transfigured to the heavenly state. This would make sense too by the fact that He appeared suddenly in their midst out of nowhere, which a flesh body cannot do. At this point because He told His disciples to touch and handle Him, it also suggests that He had already ascended to The Father with His flesh being changed, made "a quickening spirit" Paul said.

It seems you don't realize, but being dogmatic, loud and sure-of-yourself doesn't make you right. It also has a tendency to blind you to what a person is trying to tell you, as is the case here. @clare is not saying that the spiritual body is the same kind of physical body (what Paul has called flesh and blood) that we have now —only that it is a real physical body, even as Jesus' was physical when he ascended into Heaven. We will be raised, but incorruptible. These same bodies will be remade, immortal, spiritual.

 

[Davy]

Strike 1 against you for not understanding the NT in light of all the NT.


Strike 2 for not doing your homework on Paul's use of "spiritual" and "flesh."


With no NT basis for "mortal" referring to "soul."

What is your meaning of "soul?"

Stay on your old false Jewish traditions if you want, but you'll never convince the true Bible student of your fleshy doctrines about the resurrection.

 

[Davy]

It seems you don't realize, but being dogmatic, loud and sure-of-yourself doesn't make you right. It also has a tendency to blind you to what a person is trying to tell you, as is the case here. @clare is not saying that the spiritual body is the same kind of physical body (what Paul has called flesh and blood) that we have now —only that it is a real physical body, even as Jesus' was physical when he ascended into Heaven. We will be raised, but incorruptible. These same bodies will be remade, immortal, spiritual.

Too bad you don't agree with the Scriptures like I do, because that's all I'm doing. I'm not pushing my own ideas like many here do. Clare is pushing a 'fleshy' thinking about the resurrection body type, and that's all there is to it, which is NOT even close to what Apostle Paul was teaching about the resurrection in 1 Cor.15. I can easily realize when someone has refused to give up the old Jewish 'dead in the ground' belief with thinking the "spiritual body" is a new flesh body. It ain't. Don't like me saying so? Too bad, because that's what the Scripture teaches, and I'm 100% aligned with Apostle Paul on it. I've even noticed some folks here even think when the angels appear to flesh men on earth, they think those angels (like in Genesis 19) had to put on some human flesh body just to appear on earth! Nothing written in God's Word about that; it only shows how some just can't give up their 'carnal' thinking.

 

[Davy]

The spirits of the born again are with Jesus now.
Those spirits, which feel unclothed and naked without their physical bodies, will be reunited with their bodies in the resurrection at the end of time.

See, there it is friends, the old orthodox doctrine from Judaism that the resurrection type body is a new (or rejuvinated) flesh body. Apostle Paul said uh-uh, NO!

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

So WHY... do some go DIRECTLY AGAINST THAT SCRIPTURE written by Apostle Paul?

What is it they are ACTUALLY pushing instead? The devil's doctrine of old Jewish traditions of being 'dead in the ground'. Yeah!! Your grandmother ain't in Heaven, she's sleeping in the ground out in the backyard, that kind of stupid stuff!!!

 

[Clare73]

See, there it is friends, the old orthodox doctrine from Judaism that the resurrection type body is a new (or rejuvinated) flesh body. Apostle Paul said uh-uh, NO!
1 Cor 15:49-50 -And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. KJV
So WHY... do some go DIRECTLY AGAINST THAT SCRIPTURE written by Apostle Paul?

Seems you need to answer that one for yourself. . .

What is it they are ACTUALLY pushing instead? The devil's doctrine of old Jewish traditions of being 'dead in the ground'. Yeah!! Your grandmother ain't in Heaven, she's sleeping in the ground out in the backyard, that kind of stupid stuff!!!

Now if you just knew and understood Paul's reference point in "flesh and blood". . . and "spiritual."