Are there sincere seekers in hell?

[Maria Billingsley]

A feeling while worshipping or reading the bible, looking at creation, authority figures believed, I had a dream, I believed god gave me thoughts during prayer, I could not think of any other reason for anything existing, apologists arguments, answered prayer, healing stories, witnesses from the bible, miracle stories.

How about Jesus? What were your thoughts about Him?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Atheism is actually very rare. Most people believe in a god of some sort.

How can you possibly know that. I don't believe and every atheist I know doesn't either.

If you cannot even imagine what evidence would convince you, I suspect that no evidence would convince you. I can imagine what evidence would convince me that unicorns exist, for example. Can you not even imagine what evidence could convince you of God's existence?

If I have preconceived ideas of what evidence I would need I could miss the actual evidence that would convince me because I don't know it is out there yet. I have some ideas what would convince me but until I am convinced I would not actually know what I would require. God knows what would convince me and the fact that he has not convinced me leads me to believe he does not want me to know or that he does not exist.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

God, Christ, would be the one Who knows more, Who would know the answer better than anyone mortal. We do at least understand that includes words via the prophets like Jeremiah who are conveying from the Lord. So when I read Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. then I remember the "all of your heart" and know then that this is a kind of all-in. It's like someone that runs out and leaps to try to cross the chasm, jumps out into the air over the cliff face, a kind of total "all-in" real leap, to use a metaphor. It wasn't...where I'd been. It was leaping into the unknown. "All" was itself an act of faith, itself. And since God gives grace to the humble, then several key things were happening: I was humble (truly), and all-in totally with all of my heart, and had been earnestly also doing the instructions Christ said to do, and also I was reading His words, and keeping them in my mind, in an ongoing way. None of that was by plan. It just came about over time. So, seeking of this kind is a kind of truly...different thing than just trying to find something for a few days. It's more as if it was had-to. I was seeking as if it was life or death. It was a total. Because He is God, and to seek the infinite, while being finite, is...risking total utter change, it's like giving up what you were, because you are finite and may be acted on by the infinite, so it already involved willingness to lose all I had in a sense -- what I thought of as self -- because I was truly risking that all I knew/lived might get replaced by a new reality.

Ok. What do you want me to take from this?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

How about Jesus? What were your thoughts about Him?

I believed he existed, was fully god and fully human and rose from the dead.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I believed he existed, was fully god and fully human and rose from the dead.

Did you believe He died, resurrected and ascended for the forgiveness of all sin?

 

[Halbhh]

Ok. What do you want me to take from this?

It's possible. If you do the things in scripture (together all of these key scriptures above on this), then what God has said will happen will happen.

 

[Tree of Life]

How can you possibly know that. I don't believe and every atheist I know doesn't either.

I'm just going off of polls.

If I have preconceived ideas of what evidence I would need I could miss the actual evidence that would convince me because I don't know it is out there yet. I have some ideas what would convince me but until I am convinced I would not actually know what I would require. God knows what would convince me and the fact that he has not convinced me leads me to believe he does not want me to know or that he does not exist.

If you don't know what you're looking for then you'll never find it. This is also rather unscientific. In the scientific process, we begin with a hypothesis and then test it. In other words, we begin with a certain idea of the kind of evidence we are looking for. When testing whether or not a medicine works, we have in mind what it would look like for that medicine to work. You can't even say what you imagine evidence for God's existence would be like. I think you're being intentionally obtuse because you're not actually interested in discovering that God exists. You're more interested in justifying your unbelief.

 

[Lukaris]

So a sincere seeker can be saved?

Yes, this is a very delicate issue though. The Lord says He will save those who have done good & not those who have been evil. I cannot presume to know who in particular though. If I call myself a Christian & then do things like rob or extort people, why would I be saved? If the sincere seeker otherwise cares for others ( Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9 etc.) why should he or she not be saved?

I can only go so far with this of course taking what the Lord says about judging others & taking the golden rule into account ( Matthew 7:1-12).

 

[NBB]

Maybe, but do you think that no true seeker ever died truly seeking?

God is not cruel, i mean at all.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Did you believe He died, resurrected and ascended for the forgiveness of all sin?

Yes.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It's possible. If you do the things in scripture (together all of these key scriptures above on this), then what God has said will happen will happen.

So works are required?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I'm just going off of polls.

It think the rate of unbelievers is greater than the rate of people that call themselves atheists. Reported unbelievers I think are 10-15%. Not rare.

If you don't know what you're looking for then you'll never find it. This is also rather unscientific. In the scientific process, we begin with a hypothesis and then test it. In other words, we begin with a certain idea of the kind of evidence we are looking for. When testing whether or not a medicine works, we have in mind what it would look like for that medicine to work. You can't even say what you imagine evidence for God's existence would be like. I think you're being intentionally obtuse because you're not actually interested in discovering that God exists. You're more interested in justifying your unbelief.

I have no belief in a god. Atheism is not a belief. It is the rejection that there is evidence for god. I am not saying god does not exist.

No one can possibly know what will convince them of anything. How can we possibly know all the evidence out there for a claim. I want to know what is true and that includes if god exists. I have no problem if the Christian god exists or not. If he does exist I would need evidence that he is good before I would follow him.

Also, are you saying obtaining faith is a scientific process?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes, this is a very delicate issue though. The Lord says He will save those who have done good & not those who have been evil. I cannot presume to know who in particular though. If I call myself a Christian & then do things like rob or extort people, why would I be saved? If the sincere seeker otherwise cares for others ( Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9 etc.) why should he or she not be saved?

I can only go so far with this of course taking what the Lord says about judging others & taking the golden rule into account ( Matthew 7:1-12).

Can a person know if they are saved?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

God is not cruel, i mean at all.

The bible refutes this in many ways.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Yes.

I guess I should correct the word "believe" to "believed".
So from what I can gather, at one time you had proof and were able to affirm all of these facts however now you have proof telling you otherwise. If I may ask, what is the most compelling proof that led you to deny Him?

 

[cvanwey]

Can a person know if they are saved?

Depends on which Verse(s) you adhere to, as THE answer ---- while ignoring others, which conflict.

 

[cvanwey]

God is not cruel, i mean at all.

Is everything that God commands considered intrinsically 'good', or, does God command something because it is intrinsically 'good'?

 

[cvanwey]

Yes, this is a very delicate issue though. The Lord says He will save those who have done good & not those who have been evil. I cannot presume to know who in particular though. If I call myself a Christian & then do things like rob or extort people, why would I be saved? If the sincere seeker otherwise cares for others ( Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9 etc.) why should he or she not be saved?

I can only go so far with this of course taking what the Lord says about judging others & taking the golden rule into account ( Matthew 7:1-12).

Here lies the crux...

According to the Bible, ALL will fall short 'morally'. If you claim you are a Christian, and your intentions are pure, you will still break 'God's law(s)'

It is said that all humans lie daily. Though you may be able to rationalize many of them, isn't this 'sin' alone against God's law? Assuming you agree up to this point, does God prioritize some 'sin' above others i.e. (lie>theft>extortion)? Or, are they ALL 'bad' to God?

So now we are back to salvation by grace alone, or grace by faith...????.?.?.?

Thus, your above answer of 'yes', raises more questions than to provide resolution, it seems

Looks as though an excellent case can be made, using Scripture, that an 'unresolved seeker' is damned to hell. And of course, you might be able to sight some passages to contradict this assertion. But, isn't this what makes the Bible so 'interesting'?

 

[Halbhh]

So works are required?

Faith/grace result in works -- it's like John chapter 15, verses 1-17. I'd suggest to also read Ephesians chapter 2, verses 1-10, and in a good translation like the NIV.

Here:
John 15 NIV (verses 1-17)
(we only bear good fruit from Him, through Him)

Ephesians 2 NIV (verses 1-10)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Funny how OP never anwered my question on what it would take to convince them.

Maybe some refuse to be convinced, I mean its tough to give them what they need to be convinced if they themselves don't know, or won't tell.