Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

Guojing said:

Not rightly dividing the word of truth lead to all these misunderstandings of why Jesus healed so much in his first coming to Israel.

Everyone just assumed that the main reason he healed was because he was being kind and compassionate.

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The Bible often says, "Jesus, moved by compassion," then goes on to describe Him healing.

I keep seeing experiential arguments against God's word. Which is authoritative, God's word, or our experiences? The Bible says, "trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

I'm not healed of some things right now. I can see my own doubts working against the truth of God's word. I recognize my doubt as something to be repented of, not as an indictment against God's word.

jiminpa said:

I keep seeing experiential arguments against God's word. Which is authoritative, God's word, or our experiences?

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If God's word taught that when Christians pray for physical healing they will always be healed, we would see it in our experience.
Otherwise, it would make God out to be a liar.
Did Jesus tell us to pray and have faith? Yes.
Did David Watson and his supporters pray and have faith? Yes
But he died.
Christians, and non Christians, alike are going to ask why.
So far, the only answers I've see are along the lines that it must be the sufferers fault for not having enough faith.

jiminpa said:

The Bible says, "trust in the Lord with all of your heart,

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Yes, we should trust in the Lord - whether we see answers to prayer or not.

jiminpa said:

I'm not healed of some things right now. I can see my own doubts working against the truth of God's word.

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God's word does not say that every Christian will be physically healed.

Paul left a fellow Apostle in Miletus because he was sick; he didn't heal him and take him on his missionary journey, 2 Timothy 4:20.
He said that Epaphroditus was so ill that he nearly died and that God had mercy on him. God could have healed him miraculously, but Paul doesn't say so. Nor that they just told him to confess the faith and get rid of his doubts.
Paul himself only preached the Gospel to the Galatians because he was sick, Galatians 4:13.

jiminpa said:

I recognize my doubt as something to be repented of, not as an indictment against God's word.

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Who, or what, are you doubting?
That God can heal? That God is good? Or that God will remove your symptoms when you want, in the way that you want?

jiminpa said:

I keep seeing experiential arguments against God's word. Which is authoritative, God's word, or our experiences? The Bible says, "trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

I'm not healed of some things right now. I can see my own doubts working against the truth of God's word. I recognize my doubt as something to be repented of, not as an indictment against God's word.

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This is a valid point.

Strong in Him said:

... doubting? ... That God can heal? That God is good?

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Doubting that God is Good ...
makes my heart so very sad, that any child of God would ever seriously doubt that God is Good towards him or her.


But I can understand the source of that doubt: a doctrine that teaches that God's plan for man is that we all be healed, and living in perfect mental and physical shape, while here on this earth.

Jesus did not come into this world to heal all of us here from all sickness and disease and to give us a happy life ... our 'best life' ... here. Though ... that IS what some churches do teach.

Jesus came to seek and to save what was lost. Us.

God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Where is the gratitude towards God, for the salvation He has given to our souls?

If God did 'nothing more' than save me from hell, and bless me with eternal life in heaven with Him and the family of God forever, that would be more than enough for me to know ... without a doubt ...that God is Good.

... but yes, God has done, and continues to do, so much more.

It is a twisted lie of the devil that says to us that in order for us to know and believe that God is Good, we must first be healed of all our infirmities by Him.

And because some of us here believe that God is Good, even if we are not healed of all sickness and disease, does not make us faithless.

... That, too, is a lie of the devil. To say that we are faithless.

Strong in Him said:

Who, or what, are you doubting?
That God can heal? That God is good? Or that God will remove your symptoms when you want, in the way that you want?

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I'm gong to leave the parts that I think will be unproductive and answer what I think may be productive. I'm doubting that it will work for me. Having said that, I'm in a more encouraging church community then I have been for a long time, and I'm getting healthier spiritually.

God's word says we are healed by the stripes of wounding that Jesus took. That's what it says. It also records time and again Jesus healing all who came to him. I know the self-talk, or other source, in my head. I know that God's word is true. I know that doubt and unbelief hindered Jesus's ministering.

jiminpa said:

The Bible often says, "Jesus, moved by compassion," then goes on to describe Him healing.

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Thus, out of those few times, you assumed the main reason he healed was because of that?

That is precisely my point.

Strong in Him said:

Paul left a fellow Apostle in Miletus because he was sick; he didn't heal him and take him on his missionary journey, 2 Timothy 4:20.
He said that Epaphroditus was so ill that he nearly died and that God had mercy on him. God could have healed him miraculously, but Paul doesn't say so. Nor that they just told him to confess the faith and get rid of his doubts.
Paul himself only preached the Gospel to the Galatians because he was sick, Galatians 4:13.

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I find it interesting that Paul never once quoted the famous WOF passage for healing, "With his stripes we are healed", throughout all his epistles.

Again, learning how to rightly divide the word of truth as he instructed in 2 Timothy 2:15, is the key to understand that God work differently at different times.

Guojing said:

Thus, out of those few times, you assumed the main reason he healed was because of that?

That is precisely my point.

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As it says, He came to set the captives free. God is compassionate to those who will receive it. Jesus being motivated by compassion is consistent with the whole of scripture.

jiminpa said:

As it says, He came to set the captives free. God is compassionate to those who will receive it. Jesus being motivated by compassion is consistent with the whole of scripture.

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Would you accept the possibility of another reason being the main one?

Guojing said:

Would you accept the possibility of another reason being the main one?

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Only if it can be shown in scripture that other reasons have a higher precedence.

jiminpa said:

Only if it can be shown in scripture that other reasons have a higher precedence.

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Of course, scripture won't list the order of priority in a manner that will convince a mind that is determined to put "compassion" as the number 1 reason.

To give an obvious example, why do you think no Jewish lepers were ever healed until Christ came to Israel, aka Luke 4:27?

Guojing said:

Of course, scripture won't list the order of priority in a manner that will convince a mind that is determined to put "compassion" as the number 1 reason.

To give an obvious example, why do you think no Jewish lepers were ever healed until Christ came to Israel, aka Luke 4:27?

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How do you know that no Jewish lepers were ever healed prior to Jesus?

mourningdove~ said:

Doubting that God is Good ...
makes my heart so very sad, that any child of God would ever seriously doubt that God is Good towards him or her.


But I can understand the source of that doubt: a doctrine that teaches that God's plan for man is that we all be healed, and living in perfect mental and physical shape, while here on this earth.

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I don't see anything about perfect in the Bible, but I do see that we are healed and are given a spirit of love, power, and a sound mind.

I would say that a doctrine that says that God wants us weak, in pain, and unable to fully function would have most people doubting His goodness. The doctrine that says God wants a child traumatized by the death of a parent makes it harder to trust His goodness.

jiminpa said:

How do you know that no Jewish lepers were ever healed prior to Jesus?

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Jesus stated that himself in Luke 4:27

Guojing said:

Jesus stated that himself in Luke 4:27

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You missed a little, "...in the time of Elisha the prophet."

jiminpa said:

You missed a little, "...in the time of Elisha the prophet."

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So, despite the clarity of Luke 4:27, you still want to believe that "some Jewish lepers" were healed before Christ, even though scripture was silent?

jiminpa said:

I'm doubting that it will work for me.

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When you say, "it will work", do you mean,
you're doubting that God can heal?
you're doubting that he will bring you the healing that you want?
you're doubting that the Bible verses and/or formulas that you've been told to repeat will have any effect?

jiminpa said:

God's word says we are healed by the stripes of wounding that Jesus took. That's what it says.

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Yes - and Isaiah also says that he died for our iniquities and transgressions. In context, he is talking about sin.
That is why Jesus came: to reconcile us to God; give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45; undo the curse of the first Adam, Romans 6; bring us peace with God, Romans 5:1.
Through him we have eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 10:10, Romans 6:23. So when this temporal life is over, we will be with him, in his presence, forever. This is guaranteed - we have the Holy Spirit as a mark of this.
Having a problem, symptom free life on this imperfect, sin stained earth is NOT guaranteed. Neither is being free from sickness. It would be nice if it were; but it isn't.

jiminpa said:

It also records time and again Jesus healing all who came to him.

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Yes, and the epistles also speak of people who were sick - close to death in one case - without any indication that they were healed miraculously. Like I said, Trophimus was sick at the start of one missionary journey. Paul did not heal him, he left him behind.

Years ago someone pointed out to me that what I thought was faith, was presumption.
"Ask God what he is saying to you in, and about, your illness. Don't assume that he has to take it away, or tell him that you will only be able to serve him if he does so."

jiminpa said:

I know that doubt and unbelief hindered Jesus's ministering.

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And sometimes it didn't.
Jesus didn't always ask people if they had faith before he healed them. One man said "IF you can make him well ....." and then said, "I believe, help me in my unbelief."
The man at the pool in Bethesda didn't even answer Jesus' question "do you want to be well?" He believed a local superstition about an angel stirring up the waters and made the excuse that he could not get into the pool. He had been there for 38 years. He could probably have crawled, shuffled or rolled, into the pool in that time had he really wanted to be well. He didn't.

I know the Gospels say that sometimes Jesus couldn't do anything because of unbelief.
But I also know that God's power is not limited by our thoughts and ability to respond.
I used to find it hard to accept that God loved me - but he didn't stop loving me just because I struggled to accept it. I didn't always believe in the Holy Spirit - but he didn't cease to exist because of that. Nor did my ignorance, or unbelief, prevent his from working in my life.
I read a book once in which the author was describing her time at a Kathryn Kuhlmann healing meeting. A man in front of her was swearing, openly blaspheming and didn't believe. He was healed, thanked God and became a believer. The author, who had had several "confirmations" that she would receive her healing that day, left in her wheelchair.

Strong in Him said:

I know the Gospels say that sometimes Jesus couldn't do anything because of unbelief.
But I also know that God's power is not limited by our thoughts and ability to respond.

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That is contradictory - you know Jesus couldn't do because of unbelief - but you also know God's power is not limited by our beliefs (thoughts and ability to respond) - that makes no sense.

Question:

Can Jesus lie?

If no, then His word is plainly stated:

I believe Jesus. Beyond what I see, feel or experience, I believe He is truth.

Jesus said:

I believe Jesus

Jesus said:
I believe Jesus

Even though this point is still being ignored - there is not one time in the Gospels and Epistles where someone came to Jesus, the 12 or the 70 others for healing and were told no, it is not God's will, you will be healed in heaven or anything else. But everyone received healing in their bodies.

Guojing said:

I find it interesting that Paul never once quoted the famous WOF passage for healing, "With his stripes we are healed", throughout all his epistles.

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True - but Matthew did in his Gospel and Peter did in his epistle.

BTW - it isn't a WOF passage - it is scripture.