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Of course those who are Saved can not leave God!
Part of one becoming Saved is the man effecting his FREE WILL to Give God the Authority to Take And Keep the mans Life forever With God.
How silly to say a man makes a choice of his own volition then say man can then change his freewill choice AS IF a mans choices then have the power to supersede God Power and make God a liar. Pfft!
Man exercises his own free will to give God control over the mans spiritual everlasting life.
God Bless,
SBC
So, will Jesus be in error when He tells them He never knew them?
Don't be deceived into believing that grace is covering all your present and future sins. If you are still sinning, Jesus NEVER knew you.
No, but we are if just calling Jesus Lord is going to save us as the OSAS crowd does. What does verse 21 say?
21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
Does that mean to "Sin boldly" as Martin Luther said? He also said, "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." Is THAT doing the will of the Father?
Don't be deceived into believing that grace is covering all your present and future sins. If you are still sinning, Jesus NEVER knew you.
He who endures until the end of what?
Every one that is born alive and of the earth is everyone who has his own life which is his own Blood in his body.
Everyone who endures to the end IS everyone Who believes in their heart until their own life's ending, which all born out of the earth, are already sentenced that their blood life SHALL end.
An individual mans enduring to his end IS a man believing until his Blood life ends.
David was disobedient to the law.
David was never with Belief And Then without belief in God.
David endured to his end of his own Blood life.
Yes David was a man after Gods own heart which is to say;
David thirsted to know Gods Word, Truth an Understanding- an excellent example that all should be after the same.
God Bless,
SBC
Quick question.. personally (if you don't mind answering, you don't have to feel pressured) was there a time in the past since you've been saved that you have sinned?
'Is that doing the will of the Father?' -- No.
At best, one could understand Luther to talking to a certain time and place, a certain audience, trying to get them to understand something. And doing a poor job of it, in this case.
Psalms 51 is so wonderful, that utter repentance David did.
We know from 1 John 1 that if we confess, He is just and faithful to forgive!
Hallelujah.
So, we should be sure to tell people confession isn't an optional extra, but an essential key thing we should do. We must confess our sins sincerely to God, even in our hearts (our hidden, real thoughts), in real contrition.
As Christ told us, our faith will not endure -- our faith will fail -- if we don't put His words to us into practice. It's impossible to me to read Matthew 7:24-27 as anything but an instruction about real choices we make, as we live here, ongoing. In other words, we have to choose at times, and we have help, but it's possible to make the wrong choice, be unfaithful, and continue in that. Paul warns about that too. As best I understand though, even one refusing to follow Him for years could still turn and repent and be forgiven. It's not too late.
[for me anyway] any invented phrase beyond that which is written is not a doctrine as is that which is written. for me anyway I would agree with that which is written, and not think nor speak above that which is written; therefore do i have "the hope of salvation", and nothing more to be added to it, lest I would begin to exaggerate and over-estimate beyond that which is written.
Verse nine which you quoted is when you become a Christian and receive the Holy Spirit so then you are verse 7. Verse 6,8 and 10 is still a person walking in darkness. They are not Christians.
If only belief is required for salvation what do you make of Heb 5:9?Believe in Jesus and be adopted into the family of God by Christ's blood. That is all God requires for salvation and that is the gospel.
How would you in your opinion define "once saved, always saved"? Is it true or is it false doctrine? Would "wilful sinning" have any connection to this said doctrine"? How also about works or obedience? What roles if any would that doctrine play in how we will end up in eternity?
Hi Lik3, thanks for posting this. It would be best that with that phrase, we will look into the bible. It is indeed true that once saved, always saved. John 3:16 is a good summary of it already. There is this greatest invitation to all "whoever" believes, regardless if they did good or not, shall have eternal life. Life here means zoe life. There are 2 greek uses of life: Bio and Zoe. In this verse, it uses Zoe, the same word used in John 10:10 where Jesus said, I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. That's His promise, no conditions. With regards to willful sinning, we need to categorize points about the word "saved". Saved from what? Salvation can be categorized in 3 phases:
Phase 1 is Saved from the Penalty of sin. Jesus paid it all already when He said, it is finished or tetestai or paid in full before he breath his last breath. Jesus has no debt, yet he paid what must be paid - all of our sins and the wage is death. Hence, His death paid it all. Theologians call this Justification where anyone who believes is justified. No more any tarnish of sin because the debt is paid. Hence, the believer then is called Just.
Phase 2 is Saved from the Power of Sin.This now will answer about your question of willful sinning. Everyday from the moment we wake-up til we go to bed, we are in constant battle. Why, still because of Sin that is inherent in us. From the time that God justified us (that moment that we believe in Jesus and the work He had done on the cross) He never never never had taken His eyes from us. We are the apple of His eyes, and daily moment by moment He saves us. Meaning, His love endures forever. His faithfulness is new every morning. Because of His mercy we are not consumed. Sin is no longer an issue to God. The issue is, would we enjoy the abundant life here on earth as He promised if we disobey? I doubt so. Are we yielded to Him? This is the most difficult phase because it requires our daily submission to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I cannot deny that I willfully disobeyed Him. Does that mean that the death of Jesus on the cross was forfeited. I know that there is struggle deep inside to abide with my willful lust or to abide in the Power of God. I have the freedom to choose. Now, if we obey - expect blessings like joy, peace, love, etc. The opposite, if we disobey, expect chaos. What is amazing with our God is that, out from any chaos, still something good will come out of it in that experience. Of course, we already miss a lot of blessings. Blessings in time and Blessings in eternity. In time - could be productivity, wealth, wisdom, frienships, etc. many.. In eternity - silver, gold, precious stones, crowns - which we will present to our greatest Lover, the Groom, and no else but Christ Jesus and we the believers the bride. The opposite: wood, hay, straw. Fire will test it. This phase in our life is called Sanctification, being set apart daily, purified daily, polished daily, processed daily, that we will come out so precious in His sight. That is, if we obey. If not, well heaven will still have celebration for the fast forwarded life of a saint to eternity.The unfinished purpose. I wonder how would that be before Christ. The bible is clear, there will be judgement before Christ Jesus. again, sin is not an issue to God but it is to us. I pray that i finish well.
Phase 3, the most awaited time of the Christian. Saved from the Presence of Sin, where the corruptible body will be changed to incorruptible. There is no pressure of sin anymore. No more sorrows or deep frustrations, sickness, anger, bitterness and all of the baggages in life. So free from all of this world's pulling down effect. The day I am waiting for. That blessed hope.
Hence, in Christ, once saved will always be saved, regardless.
It makes me wonder -- are we then forced (even against our will) to repent after we do really serious sin? I mean is that inevitable? -- God would do whatever it takes to force us to turn and return? Or is there instead a real choice we might make?
(And there is at least one other option some believe, the idea of purgatory, I remember.)
Please see post #90 re the serious sin of Peter, where Peter "stood condemned" but later in time Peter has reversed course.
It makes me wonder -- are we then forced (even against our will) to repent after we do really serious sin? I mean is that inevitable? -- God would do whatever it takes to force us to turn and return? Or is there instead a real choice we might make?
(And there is at least one other option some believe, the idea of purgatory, I remember.)
Please see post #90 re the serious sin of Peter, where Peter "stood condemned" but later in time Peter has reversed course.
Thanks for this post. No, we are never forced. Because if we are, then why would God allow Peter in the first place to sin. When God created man, it was a package: Mentality, Emotions, Conscience, Self-consciousness, and the power to decide and that is Volition. God is a respecter of freedom. Each choice we make there are consequences. In our sane mind we do evaluate, we weigh things, we think, we consider what is good for us and what is not. Naturally, that is our nature. God is absolutely good. He never pushed this to man. Rather, he allowed man to choose, gave an option. To choose His choices or ours. So, at the end of the day, it is still us to choose. But He remains faithful regardless. Now if we choose Him, He is absolutely good, expect good. If we will not choose Him, expect that it is not good. In my own considerations, I want good of course. Have I failed. Yes! many times. Should I choose to be a failure for the rest of my life. I pray not.
He is "just and faithful to forgive!". Hallelujah.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."
We need only confess our sins truly, sincerely -- thus we are acting under the light -- and by His Grace and Mercy, we are forgiven.
If we don't obey we still have celebration? How do you reconcile Rom 8:13 with your view?This phase in our life is called Sanctification, being set apart daily, purified daily, polished daily, processed daily, that we will come out so precious in His sight. That is, if we obey. If not, well heaven will still have celebration for the fast forwarded life of a saint to eternity.
Yes he was (is?)..... Did David SIN WILLFULLY every day, day after day ? as a man after God's own heart, or was he repentant and stopped committing adultery ? Remember no adulterers are in heaven - no one with an impure heart is in heaven, according to Scripture.
If only He hadn't also said, he who endures to the end .....
Notice that the proponents of osas all believe they have no free will left to leave Jesus.
Naturally no one in the Shepherd's Care 'ought' to want to leave Him,
but His Word repeatedly gives warning about this very thing.
So even just one warning about the penalty of leaving Him, one believer who tasted of the heavenlies, leaving Him, disproves osas hands down.
Something so simple, mankind has complicated beyond recognition of the truth, to deceive others further or to placate their own selves, or some other reason..... (maybe just being deceived is enough?) ...
The simple truth many do not want to hear is that if you were saved you would not justify your sin or your actions.
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