Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

JacksBratt said:
You posted a scripture:

35 Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Then you stated "As sure as we cometh we can leaveth. "

But, the scripture doesn't say this. So......you speculated that "as sure as we cometh we can leaveth"

It is not scriptural.

Yes, I can see if people denounce their faith or purposly turn from Christ and blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

That is a special case. As you said "who in their right mind would never bother to get saved at all?"

If what you state is true.. out of those that get saved, how many are going to turn from it?

We're talking tiny percentages.

As a whole. People who are saved cannot lose it. You may, and I'm no expert, chuck it away, but that is not losing it.

The whole argument that I'm hearing here is that salvation can be lost by actions of those not following a Christian walk.

That is total mallarky....you lose things by accident. Nobody lost something on purpose.

I should hope that people who are new Christians should not understand the false teaching of "you must be careful or you will lose your salvation.

If anyone has been saved and no longer is...... It is due to their determination to turn from God and Christ in this regard.

Yet, Jesus said in Matthew 7 that there were believers who thought they did wonderful works and yet they were not saved because they worked iniquity (sin). Jesus says depart from me ye that work iniquity. Jesus did not say, Depart from me ye that did not believe solely in me as your Savior while you ignore your sin. You have things backwards. God is good; He is not evil and He will not allow His people to be evil. Think man!

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

JacksBratt said:
Yes, it will separate you from a connection with Christ.... You don't lose your salvation...

If your list was the case...... we would all be re-repenting, being re-saved and re-gaining salvation all the time..... based on many of the items in your list.

You didn't even look at those pieces of Scripture. You are just hitting the disagree button and making the Word of God say what you want it to say. Nowhere do these verses suggest that you are separated in fellowship and yet you are still saved. I get no such indication of that in these pieces of Scripture I quoted to you. Please show me. Show me. Show me where it says what you say.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

If there is no standard of morality that we as believers uphold than we are no worse than this sinful world.

The Spirit will reprove the world of it's sin because they believe not on Jesus Christ.

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me;" (John 16:8-9).

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

People like morality but they only see it as fitting to benefit their own life. When an injustice is done to themselves they think it is unfair.

Check out this video:

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

However, if a person says that obedience to God's moral laws does not apply to them salvation wise, then they are undercutting the very Moral argument for the existence of God. It's not right. So if this applies to you: Then I will say, please rethink your ways and repent.

For Scripture says, the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
For nowhere does Scripture teach that youc an live unrighteously and yet inherit the Kingdom of God and or be saved. Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

Lik3 said:
How would you in your opinion define "once saved, always saved"? Is it true or is it false doctrine? Would "wilful sinning" have any connection to this said doctrine"? How also about works or obedience? What roles if any would that doctrine play in how we will end up in eternity?

I forgot to say that Once Saved Always Saved, is also called Free Grace, Eternal Security, Unconditional Eternal Security, OSAS, Perseverance of the Saints.

It is basically saying that you can willfully break God's moral laws on some level and still be saved vs. living holy and in the will of God. For most in the Eternal Security camp will deny that you cannot stop sinning. You will be a slave to sin. Yet, Jesus condemned this kind of thinking. He says, he that sins is a slave to sin. Paul says we are to be slaves to righteousness. So what kind of believer do you want to be? A believer who is a slave to sin or a believer who is a slave to righteousness?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

There are very little sermons that are preached on this verse (in what it says plainly) today.

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Bible Highlighter · Dec 12, 2017

People need to repent and they need to wake up. Jesus is coming. Get your beliefs and your heart right with the Lord (if you have not done so).

Halbhh · Dec 12, 2017

Apologetic_Warrior said:
There is a distinction between calling and election, I can imagine many Benny Hinn's of the world saying "Lord, Lord" thinking they will enter, thinking "what great things we did in your name", and the gates shut in their face, without any reversal (God making corrections) of election or impeaching. The punchline of a parable is generally found at the end, and in this case it is "many are called, but few are chosen". The gospel is preached to many, many hear the gospel call, but few are chosen by God (which is clear from the five pages of Scripture posted).

Does this make you feel Matthew 7:24-27 is optional to you, in view of that unconditional idea?

Halbhh · Dec 12, 2017

SBC said:
Disagree.

You have a confusion.

How to DO works is one thing.
A Saved soul is another thing.

A Saved soul will Never Reject God.
Nor did Peter ever again speak against the Lord after he received the Spirit of the Lord.

A Faithful man Being reprimanded for How he does his works is common place and well taught in scriptures.

People do the same today of one Saved man to another Saved man saying your behavior is not Christian like, which is saying, what works you are doing are not glorifying to the Lord!

It has nothing to do with the mans already received Salvation and everything to do with a mans works that are not glorifying to God.

God Bless,
SBC

I felt like you must have been confusing my post with someone else, and wasn't able to see much connection between your comments about works and what you quoted (which was about the necessity of confession itself, confession as crucial). If you thought I didn't know about Ephesians 2:8-10, or John 15, etc., I can reassure you I have those understandings. It's hard to discuss these issues without people jumping to conclusions of course, because few of us will post extra paragraphs on justification and works on every post.

Kenny'sID · Dec 12, 2017

JacksBratt said:
Yes, I can see if people denounce their faith or purposly turn from Christ and blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

That is a special case. As you said "who in their right mind would never bother to get saved at all?"

Then at the very least it's not speculation.

JacksBratt said:
We're talking tiny percentages.

I think that is speculation.

JacksBratt said:
That is total mallarky....you lose things by accident. Nobody lost something on purpose.

Being lost is a term used for unsaved, surely you can see that comment doesn't work at all to the term lost in it's context here. If not, it's like saying people don't become unsaved on purpose when going on a sin binge is on purpose. Wasn't it you that I told, I've done it myself? So I know And I hardly think I'm the exception to the rule.

Read the following and tell me if people that do those things as a lifestyle will become unsaved?

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

There are several more like that, and if you're going to claim, they won't likely do that, then we just disagree. Or are you saying they could always do those things as a lifestyle and remain saved....if so, we also disagree there. Just that scripture is very clear we cannot

Kenny'sID · Dec 12, 2017

JacksBratt said:
I guess, maybe, I should ask... If a person is saved, what action would they have to do to lose their salvation?

Good question/that you did ask for clarification on that, read my last post please.

Monk Brendan · Dec 12, 2017

JacksBratt said:
So, if you can lose your salvation, who decides what sin, how many sins, what severity of sin, what categorical metric would you use to know when you have lost it?

However, you can CHOOSE to walk away from Christ, be led into all sorts of sin, and then you can lose your salvation. As I mentioned in my last post,

Monk Brendan said:
We have to live our lives in humble repentance, searching for sins in our walk, and living like we NEED God's gift of Salvation every minute, always conscience of our own weakness."

The way I hear some people talk, they act (in public) as if they were born sinless, and have always been walking in the midst of God's Perfect Will. If this is a person's walk, God will say, "I never knew you." However, if a person searches their soul, and tries to walk in humility, "God will say, Well Done."

I am a sinner. In the past I have been rough with people on these Fora, and I have regretted it. Further past, well, let's just say that it is covered by the Blood. But God is drawing me closer to Himself every day.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 12, 2017

"Good question/that you did ask for clarification on that, read my last post please."

Did you make a post AFTER THIS ONE ? If not, this is your last post , right ?

: )

Kenny'sID · Dec 12, 2017

Arthur B Via said:
In the Gospel of John 6:35-40 Jesus tells us, " Those who come to me will NEVER be hungry. Those who believe in me will NEVER go thirsty. ( then speaking to the Pharisees He says), " but you have seen me and still you do not believe.

Like the Pharisees you just mentioned who, though they came to Jesus, and in their minds they did everything right, but in reality they didn't believe or actually come to Christ at all...their ideals were way out of whack, just as anyone's can be. JMust like living sa lifstyle of sin is out of whack, and I'll show you if you haven't seen the warning scripti=ures already. thing is, most of you have seen thiose and either pretend they don't apply to everyone or ignore them. Has to be one of the two because they are very clear with the list oif sins rthat will keep us out of heaven.

Arthur B Via said:
Then "ALL those the Father gives me will come to me and I will NEVER drive them, us,away.

Exactly. Jesus won't drive anyone away that truly believes, but those like the Pharisees.others, they actually drive themselves away, it's not God or Jesus's fault. Or maybe you think the Father will give Jesus unbelievers?

Arthur B Via said:
How do we enjoy the fruits of the Spirit IF we are questioning our salvation???

By acting right so we don't have to question it. Don't do the things that the bible specifically say will get us a ticket to Hell. How is this the slightest bit confusing?

SBC · Dec 12, 2017

Halbhh said:
I felt like you must have been confusing my post with someone else, and wasn't able to see much connection between your comments about works and what you quoted (which was about the necessity of confession itself, confession as crucial). If you thought I didn't know about Ephesians 2:8-10, or John 15, etc., I can reassure you I have those understandings. It's hard to discuss these issues without people jumping to conclusions of course, because few of us will post extra paragraphs on justification and works on every post.

Perhaps you could clarify your huge damning claim applicable to Peter After having received the Holy Spirit?

I was disagreeing of that being possible.

If you would clarify what he did and why that was a damning jeopardy to his Salvation?

God Bless
SBC

1stcenturylady · Dec 12, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
No one said not sinning is works

I've seen it, but good that you don't.

Halbhh · Dec 12, 2017

SBC said:
Perhaps you could clarify your huge damning claim applicable to Peter After having received the Holy Spirit?

I was disagreeing of that being possible.

If you would clarify what he did and why that was a damning jeopardy to his Salvation?

God Bless
SBC

I didn't make a damning claim about Peter. I reported accurately the wording Paul wrote in Galatians chapter 2, Galatians 2:11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. (note various translations shown in this link -- Cephas is Peter) and encourage you to see read it yourself, and you perhaps should then also read the sections in Acts showing later in time Peter turning from this wrong and no longer doing it, if you need to.

Also, I ask you to take back the wrongful accusation that I made a 'damning claim' against Peter, who I know turned from this wrong and changed, shown in Acts.

It's to be aware of the wonderful fact that we are instructed to confess our sins, and if we do, we are forgiven them, as we learn in 1 John chapter 1, and in James chapter 5.

Marvin Knox · Dec 12, 2017

Lik3 said:
Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

The basic definition is outlined f0r us by God in Philippians 1:6.

The doctrine of OSAS, stripped to it's bare bones, is pretty easy to understand. There is no great mystery at all and there should be no controversy at all as to the truth of the doctrine.

God said it very clearly and it should be without contestation.

"I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6

Those who simply refuse to believe that God is indeed the author and finisher of our faith will no doubt try hard to refute what cannot be successfully refuted.

Arthur B Via · Dec 12, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Yet, Jesus said in Matthew 7 that there were believers who thought they did wonderful works and yet they were not saved because they worked iniquity (sin). Jesus says depart from me ye that work iniquity. Jesus did not say, Depart from me ye that did not believe solely in me as your Savior while you ignore your sin. You have things backwards. God is good; He is not evil and He will not allow His people to be evil. Think man!

Is Paul, who was chosen by Jesus and was inspired by God to write over 70% of the epistles, in hell? In Romans 7:14 Paul is inspired to share his struggle with his "sin nature". Like us, Paul hated his sins, but hell? Claiming to be sinless is claiming deity and that's a sin! Only Christ Jesus was sinless my friend. We do our very best...

Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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