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Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
What about the 'ye' in this part?---and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
That can't also apply to disciples in future generations, but can only apply to disciples in the generation Jesus was speaking to at the time? And what about the part about all nations? Did this literally involve all nations around the entire globe at the time, hating these particular disciples Jesus was talking to, for his name's sake? Maybe it's just me, but when I read things like 'all nations', I tend to not take that being localized so much, but global instead.
I know you didn't state that, nor was I inferring you did. A lot of times I'm just reasoning things out loud, so to speak. Where I then am trying to make a point, such as, well it can't fit unbelieving Jews that's for certain, so maybe it fits the church then.
Edited to add: I just now realized something. You also asked this--please provide scripture from the olivet discourse that show Jesus addressing multiple generations.
Hmmm...maybe I just did, meaning via what I submitted above from Matthew 24:9??
So I can't tell from your post whether you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?
The context in matthew 24 is the 1.) the destruction of the temple 2.) sign of your coming 3.) end of the age. As we have parallel accounts, we know that these 3 things mean the exact same as 1.) when will these things be and 2.) what will be the sign when they are about to take place.
Matthew 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Luke 21:7 And they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”
Mark 13:3 And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished.
The "when will these things be" = when will the destruction of the temple occur
Mark 13:2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:2 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Luke 21:5-6 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
What are the signs that this temple destruction is going to take place? According to Jesus, wars, and rumors of wars, earthquakes, persecution, famine, pestilence, false prophets, the gospel being proclaimed through the world, and increase in lawlessnes, and the abomination of desolation/Jerusalem surrounded by armies.
Matthew 24:4-15 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
All Christians are Partial Preterists. If there is any prophesy that you believe has come true, then you are a Partial Preterist. And, I think every one of us believes Jesus was prophesied to come..... AND we believe He did come.I just thought of something. Technically speaking, I guess this makes me somewhat of a Partial Preterist as well, yet, unlike typical Preterists and Partial Preterists, I'm not applying 'this generation' in the Discourse to that of anything involving what took place in the first century.
All Christians are Partial Preterists. If there is any prophesy that you believe has come true, then you are a Partial Preterist. And, I think every one of us believes Jesus was prophesied to come..... AND we believe He did come.
The OP doesn't deal with this portion, yet this portion is clearly relevant to the OP. I don't interpret all of Matthew 24:4-15 to be involving what took place in the first century, especially having to do with the events of 70 AD.
The events concerning 70 AD mainly had to do with judgment on the unbelieving Jews at the time. Yet, in the above context I don't see any of that involving what took place around the time of 70 AD. Look what the text says---and shall shew great signs and wonders. What does that have to do with why Jerusalem was destroyed at the time?
And who are the elect meaning in that verse?
Yet, the judgment involving 70 AD was not judgment on the church, it was judgment on the unbelieving Jews who refused to convert to the church, IOW refused to become Christians.
Does the "this generation" refer to 1st century Jerusalem or not?
Matthew 23:35-36 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
The middle of Luke 21:24 is the point at which the Olivet Discourse changes from past to future.
His Second Coming occurs when the "times of the Gentiles" comes to fullness.
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Does the "this generation" refer to 1st century Jerusalem or not?
Matthew 23:35-36 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Did the vineyard owner COME to destroy the tenants in 70AD or not?
Matthew 21:38-45 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.’ And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. When therefore the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;d this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
Common sense should inform all of us that some things have come to pass, and some have not. I think where many of us get hung-up is on what things may or may not have happened yet. And that seems to come down to nothing more than possibly personal (or, instead, "herd-following") interpretation.I agree with you. So why then are some labeled as futurists only, if they see, for example, the AOD in the Discourse, involving the end of this age rather than 2000 years ago? I don't see how that makes one fully futurist, anymore than it would make Partial Preterists full Preterists, simply because they agree about a few things.
Maybe someone such as Tribsigns might fit the label futurist only, since it appears he sees nothing in the Discourse that might involve those living at the time. Pretty much everyone else though, either concludes all of the Discourse involved only those alive at the time, or that some of the Discourse involved those living at the time, and some of it involves future generations. I tend to fit the latter.
Common sense should inform all of us that some things have come to pass, and some have not. I think where many of us get hung-up is on what things may or may not have happened yet. And that seems to come down to nothing more than possibly personal (or, instead, "herd-following") interpretation.
I don't take it be involving what took place in 70 AD to begin with.
It seems to be applicable to the following in Revelation 18 though.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
And I still feel I made a good point about Matthew 24:9---and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Though I neglected to address that further in my last exchange with you.
If all nations isn't meaning in a global sense, then it shouldn't be meaning in a global sense in any of the following unrelated passages either.
Some examples.
Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
Psalms 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psalms 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Psalms 113:4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
I think it is pretty straight forward...
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto YOU (those to whom He was speaking), THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
It should be noted that while no one knew the day and hour Christ would return in judgment against Jerusalem, they understood that it was to be within their generation. In other texts Jesus tells them of these things for the sole purpose that they will not be caught "unawares":
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Historically speaking, when Christians saw the armies of Rome surrounding Jerusalem, they fled into the mountains and took refuge in Pella. As a result, not a single Christian believing Christ's testimony perished in the judgment upon Jerusalem.
Luke 21 appears to make no mention of an AOD.
When I read Matthew 23, I see Jesus mainly addressing their spiritual condition at the time.
Who can even prove that the ones Jesus was talking to at the time, that they were all even still alive 40 years later in order for the events of 70 AD to be fulfilled upon them?
Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
What about this part? Did Jesus really mean the following instead? Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of 70 AD?
It appears so, yet I don't know what this has to do with what Jesus was meaning in regards to this generation in the Discourse though?
It's not like some us of are trying to deny that the events of 70 AD ever took place some 40 years post Jesus giving His Discourse.
What's in question, what was Jesus applying 'this generation' to in the Discourse.
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