ARE NON BELIEVERS LOWER IN MORAL CHARACTER THAN CHRISTIANS? Peanut Gallery.

[Unix]

They can't be positive those people were Christians, probably they don't even have an idea. By that I mean Christians who research:

According to Pew's research, Christians know even less.

 

[bhsmte]

They can't be positive those people were Christians, probably they don't even have an idea. By that I mean Christians who research:

How do you determine if someone is a Christian?

 

[MishSill]

How do you determine if someone is a Christian?

Parameters are important when conducting research.

Bottom line is that the Holy Spirit leads the true followers of Christ (Christians) into the knowledge of His word...even if they hadn't read parts of scripture, they will know it.

 

[bhsmte]

Parameters are important when conducting research.

Bottom line is that the Holy Spirit leads the true followers of Christ (Christians) into the knowledge of His word...even if they hadn't read parts of scripture, they will know it.

I have a feels the Pew folks have a little experience in conducting research, with populations of people.

Let me get this straight; a true Christian will have knowledge of scripture, even if they haven't read it?

 

[MishSill]

I have a feels the Pew folks have a little experience in conducting research, with populations of people.

Let me get this straight; a true Christian will have knowledge of scripture, even if they haven't read it?

Yes... a true Christian has the spirit of God dwelling within them and guess what... that includes His word. A baby Christian (and I don't mean that in age) will often experience something or speak words of wisdom without even knowing its there in the scriptures... I've not only seen it in others but experienced it myself.

Remember a 12 year old Jesus who had disappeared from His parents who were frought with worry.

Luke 2:49New King James Version (NKJV)
49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”

Read from verses 41 how He amazed the scholars.

That same spirit dwells in the believer.

And I have also seen young kids who are children of parent believers speak astounding words at times...out of the mouth of babes.

 

[bhsmte]

Yes... a true Christian has the spirit of God dwelling within them and guess what... that includes His word. A baby Christian (and I don't mean that in age) will often experience something or speak words of wisdom without even knowing its there in the scriptures... I've not only seen it in others but experienced it myself.

Remember a 12 year old Jesus who had disappeared from His parents who were frought with worry.

Luke 2:49New King James Version (NKJV)
49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”

Read from verses 41 how He amazed the scholars.

That same spirit dwells in the believer.

And I have also seen young kids who are children of parent believers speak astounding words at times...out of the mouth of babes.

Ok, sounds cool.

 

[J. Bleize]

As answer to the original question of the thread:
No, personally I believe that all people are morally equal.
It was beautifully summed up in the original version of the Left Behind films, an atheist was asked "Have you ever lied before? Have you ever stolen before? Have you ever hated someone before? Have you ever lusted after someone inappropriately?", and obviously his every response was (reluctantly) "Yes". On top of that, he was about to commit suicide, so he would've murdered as well! I think if every non-delusional human being on the planet were asked these questions, they would have to answer "Yes" to at least one question, or they would be lying.
Thus, every human is one or more of the following: A liar, a thief, a hateful person, an adulterer, a murderer. In the eyes of God, all sin is sin, and all sin means damnation if you don't accept Jesus Christ. Therefore, every person who has sinned is equally damned! I really don't see how we as Christians differ morally from atheists, as without Christ we are just as damned as them. I know most people don't agree with this and believe in a "good person" idea, but there is no such thing as a "good person". Jesus was the sole "good" human being in existence, and he had to be the Son of God and absolutely perfect to even be "good"!

I know that I haven't really answered the question, but I'd like to ask a question as an answer: "Is there even such a thing as morals, or is there only 'damned' and 'saved'"?

 

[mikedsjr]

You would be mistaken. Most atheists in the United States were once Christian and many have studied the bible quite extensively including myself.

In fact, the Pew research company did an analysis a few years back and measured the religious knowledge of; certain Christians, atheists, agnostics and those of other religions. The atheists scored the highest, with Muslims close behind and Christians brought up the rear.

I don't know how to post links on tapatalk

pewforum

If this is study you refer to, then you are misrepresenting the facts a bit.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

How do you determine if someone is a Christian?

1. They will profess their trust in God/Christs atonement for their personal sins. What they profess about this, will come from their heart (center of their Soul) and has become the core of their being.
2. They will exhibit a departation from the worlds/cultures lifestyle philosophies that are immoral.
3. They will have a commitment to living righteously.
4. There will be plentiful Fruit from their lives (in the form of serving , walking humbly, and having a demonstrable love for others) which confirm their position as a real Follower of Christ.

 

[Freodin]

1. They will profess their trust in God/Christs atonement for their personal sins. What they profess about this, will come from their heart (center of their Soul) and has become the core of their being.
2. They will exhibit a departation from the worlds/cultures lifestyle philosophies that are immoral.
3. They will have a commitment to living righteously.
4. There will be plentiful Fruit from their lives (in the form of serving , walking humbly, and having a demonstrable love for others) which confirm their position as a real Follower of Christ.

Shortened: "people who agree with me"

 

[stevevw]

As answer to the original question of the thread:
No, personally I believe that all people are morally equal.
It was beautifully summed up in the original version of the Left Behind films, an atheist was asked "Have you ever lied before? Have you ever stolen before? Have you ever hated someone before? Have you ever lusted after someone inappropriately?", and obviously his every response was (reluctantly) "Yes". On top of that, he was about to commit suicide, so he would've murdered as well! I think if every non-delusional human being on the planet were asked these questions, they would have to answer "Yes" to at least one question, or they would be lying.
Thus, every human is one or more of the following: A liar, a thief, a hateful person, an adulterer, a murderer. In the eyes of God, all sin is sin, and all sin means damnation if you don't accept Jesus Christ. Therefore, every person who has sinned is equally damned! I really don't see how we as Christians differ morally from atheists, as without Christ we are just as damned as them. I know most people don't agree with this and believe in a "good person" idea, but there is no such thing as a "good person". Jesus was the sole "good" human being in existence, and he had to be the Son of God and absolutely perfect to even be "good"!

I know that I haven't really answered the question, but I'd like to ask a question as an answer: "Is there even such a thing as morals, or is there only 'damned' and 'saved'"?

The Bible says we are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. So what does that mean if we can't say that God is the standard for which we fall short of. So God is all good and moral and in Him is no sin. Just as Jesus showed us in that He became flesh and was perfectly obedient to God. So He had all the temptations but completely trusted God. Jesus says we can become like Him so when we accept Jesus into our lives we defeat our old flesh selves and become a new person living with the spirit of God in us. Sin cannot live in the same body as the spirit of God.

So we become God conscious and our minds are pricked by sin. We become sensitive to sin and wrong doing. We want to please God and be obedient to Him. You cant serve two masters of sin or God. So our morals become Gods morals is the standard through Jesus. But we cannot live up to this standard on our own ability. We have to surrender to God through Jesus. It is not by good works alone that we are saved but by the Grace of God. It is no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me.

 

[Unix]

The consequences of sin are not defeated that way (by surrendering to God) and there is a sin that can't be forgiven: murder of a human being, and we really have to turn away from sin, Jesus and the Holy Spirit can inspire us to do so. Having done so we don't escape but begin a new life.
One thing which believers do is that a man and a girl pray wherever they are that God will help them come together and form a couple. In order to deserve each other certain ways of living are required. Compare this to the analogy of salvation: if looking a lot about the past life, I may not deserve a really good wife, but I've started all over. Granted, I could have saved myself all the trouble and just read about how to be a good husband but anyway having some experience since before I believe I'm a position where I can tell myself in what manner I should act, what I should remember to do and take care of, and what love is. I don't believe I'm totally different from non-believers who do the same at all, but I do believe I have truly started over now and am soon ready for a life together with a girl and that it does make a decisive diference what our source is: the Bible and what's needed to make use of it, praying, the Trinity. We don't want to defile our bodies or minds with junk food, lack of excercise or futile entertainment such as TV, we don't believe countries need military armies or to start wars, and we don't have a feeling of entitlement of having to live very close to any railway network where square feet are more expensive, nor do we believe we should punish ourselves by distancing ourselves too much from the City. But she lives far from the City - I'll see at what point she moves closer - probably at least a year from now it could as well be two years from now depending on where she decides to study to become a nurse. By punish ourselves, I'm thinking that I shouldn't burden her with having to pay a lot for housing i.e. to force her to pay a large part of a decent size apartment and anyway it would require us to be married first before it would be possible for me to move - because I doubt I can sign a contract anywhere within a humane distance from the city without anyone backing up paying for the apartment.
What I mean by all this is that my life is very focused on a few things. But I can see how deserving a good girl puts requirements on myself, and a/the girl has stated she has Christian values. If wouldn't think there is such a things as a girl like her having Christian values, why would I have bothered to try to make a point? I do think she knows what the values are and that she keeps forming good values. I don't think it's as simple as appreciation. The relationship, if it starts, is going to be more than just choosing each other and loving each other, it's going to be about walking the narrow path together, kindling the spark within (both of us finally understanding notions in full and living them a part of which is deep love for the Trinity), motivation, taking stances for or against, protecting each other physically, by each providing food, and by navigating in theology and Biblical scholarship. The latter may be what's too specific for non-believers to care about as they have other guides:

So we are God conscious and our minds are pricked by sin. We become sensitive to sin and wrong doing. We want to please God and be obedient to Him. You cant serve two masters of sin or God. So there is a thing as morals or goodness and God is the standard through Jesus. But we cannot live up to this standard on our own ability. We have to surrender to God through Jesus and we are saved. It is not bey good works that we are saved but by the Grace of God.

 

[charles at doctrineprimer]

Are non-believers lower in moral character than Christians?
From all my experiences, yes, because:

• They all use foul language sometimes
• Some of them seduce Christians in relationships and marriages, convincing the Christians that having a faith in common doesn't matter - only moral and other things matter
• Many of them mock the Bible and some other important Christian works such as Ptolemy's letter to Flora, Teachings of Silvanus, Gospel of Truth
• Many of them view being Christian as just a hobby or special interest (although some Christians actually are like that)

It all depends on upbringing. I have met many fine men who are not Christian, but have more morals than some Christians I have known for years. Besides, I know a lot of moral religious people and Jehovah's Witnesses that are on their way to hell right now because they believe that you have to work for your salvation rather than believing God that his promises are to those who simply believe. They make God a liar but they are still upstanding people in their communities and live a moral life. I know Christians who have had problems with swearing, fornication and inappropriate content. They believe in God's promises and they know they have a problem that they are working on to overcome.

 

[Debian Girl]

Are non-believers lower in moral character than Christians?
From all my experiences, yes, because:

• They all use foul language sometimes
• Some of them seduce Christians in relationships and marriages, convincing the Christians that having a faith in common doesn't matter - only moral and other things matter
• Many of them mock the Bible and some other important Christian works such as Ptolemy's letter to Flora, Teachings of Silvanus, Gospel of Truth
• Many of them view being Christian as just a hobby or special interest (although some Christians actually are like that)

 

[Debian Girl]

Ok..some Christians use foul language 'sometimes'. Some are also adulters, pedophiles, and have substandard morals listed in their Bible.

 

[tiglathpileser]

LOL

Christians never use foul language? I hope you're joking. I don't know about "seducing" but my atheist grandfather and Catholic grandmother were married for decades until death did they part -- so yeah, it's definitely possible, and they were in love and happy too. I know many Christians who also mock atheists. Not only that but they'll tell us we're headed to hell, not only because of a state of affairs they cannot control but revel in the idea of us roasting there. Many Christians also view atheist as something that is unreal, that we "know" deep in our hearts there is a God and we're just being defiant brats or because we just want to sin all the time.

I challenge anyone here to think of a moral action performed or moral statement made by a believer that could not be made by a non-believer. Our non-belief does not blind us from taking into account human suffering. In fact, it may even drive us to more compassion and empathy.

It is obvious that a statement of any kind could be made by anyone. That is not the problem. What the problem is whether the person making the statement believes what they say. For example a politician could make a statement to a christian gathering because he knows that is what they want to hear but he doesn't believe a word that he says. As long as the gathering does, he is not bothered that he doesn't.

Perhaps the question should be "Could a christian say something that he does not believe the same as a non believer might do to convince his listeners?"

 

[keith99]

It is obvious that a statement of any kind could be made by anyone. That is not the problem. What the problem is whether the person making the statement believes what they say. For example a politician could make a statement to a christian gathering because he knows that is what they want to hear but he doesn't believe a word that he says. As long as the gathering does, he is not bothered that he doesn't.

Perhaps the question should be "Could a christian say something that he does not believe the same as a non believer might do to convince his listeners?"

Since they do regularly the answer is yes, unless a trip to Scotland is in our future!

 

[613jono]

Define "moral".

 

[tiglathpileser]

LOL

Christians never use foul language? I hope you're joking. I don't know about "seducing" but my atheist grandfather and Catholic grandmother were married for decades until death did they part -- so yeah, it's definitely possible, and they were in love and happy too. I know many Christians who also mock atheists. Not only that but they'll tell us we're headed to hell, not only because of a state of affairs they cannot control but revel in the idea of us roasting there. Many Christians also view atheist as something that is unreal, that we "know" deep in our hearts there is a God and we're just being defiant brats or because we just want to sin all the time.

I challenge anyone here to think of a moral action performed or moral statement made by a believer that could not be made by a non-believer. Our non-belief does not blind us from taking into account human suffering. In fact, it may even drive us to more compassion and empathy.

If that is the case, when are you going to do something about the wholesale slaughter of innocent babies in the womb and in some cases outside of the womb who have done no wrong?

 

[tiglathpileser]

Since they do regularly the answer is yes, unless a trip to Scotland is in our future!

As that is not my experience, I would like to know what you have in mind.