Are Mormon's Christian?

[seebs]

Mormons accept the Bible as Scripture and follow Jesus of Nazareth. They are Christians.

CARM are a bunch of liars who willfully and intentionally misrepresent the views of other groups. They are not a reliable source for information. They do not correct clear factual errors when corrected; their goal is not the pursuit of truth, but the defense of a given position. Since they are human, their position is not always correct, but they defend it rather than learning. They are slanderers and false witnesses, and they are a shame to the faith. For a good start on seeing just how wacky they are, read up on their anti-evolution and anti-Catholic pages, then compare them with even comparatively responsible groups. (You don't even need to go all the way to groups which are really honest; even comparatively responsible groups show a radical difference in approach.)

The Mormons are Christians, period, full stop. They profess Jesus as Lord.

 

[MarsHill]

The op asks if Mormons are Christian.


My response would be that no, not all Mormons are Christian. But then again not all people warming pews in an evangelical church are Christian either. Are there Mormon Christians? Absolutely.

How can one be "absolutely" sure that some Mormons are Christians? I submit that we change "absolutely" to "probably".
I can agree with the rest of your statement. When we get to heaven we will probably be surprised. Some people we thought would be there will not be and others we thought would not be there will be.

It's obvious that most people within our churches are not Christians. This has proven to be a great problem with the Christian faith in general. In fact it is perhaps the biggest problem. I heard a Christian apologist recently state, "The biggest problem that I have with faith is that so many people profess to know and love the Lord Jesus Christ yet they are so far away from doing what He asks of them." That pierces my heart and should cut through all of us.

 

[CaDan]

How so? They do not follow christian doctrine, so how can they be called christian?

Theotokos, any of my Protestant brethren? Theotokos?

 

[CaDan]

Yes, this is the third time I've posted the link below.



Oh for crying out loud.

This is the third time I'm posting this webpage up for you to read.

Either read it so we can continue, or ignore it and so we can't.

http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm



Here, this next one is what Mormonism teaches (which I'm sure you probably know)

If you disagree with what is written on this page - back up with what it should say.

http://www.carm.org/lds/lds_doctrines.htm

Compare with christian Doctrine:

http://www.carm.org/doctrine.htm

Oh, CARM. These guys:

CARM's position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture.

http://www.carm.org/catholic/saved.htm

 

[Cassiopeia]

This is a common practice. A lot of young men are being excommunicated from the so-called church so the old men can marry the young girls.

They do believe that god still sends prophets to earth...President Hinkley.

Where do you get such drivel. My word...it is so ignorant that anyone would even speak such a thing. You may be talking about a weird off shoot of Mormonism but that is not the truth about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I am so shocked one would even believe such a silly thing.

 

[Cassiopeia]

What are you talking about? DO you know christianity at all? Christians are suppose to follow christ, and the teachings of christ which are found in the bible. You cannot claim to be christian and then go against the words of Christ.

Then by your definition none are truely Christians as everyone no matter what Christian faith they profess are human and falliable and will fail to follow Christ's teaching to the letter. It happens every day.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Oh, CARM. These guys:



http://www.carm.org/catholic/saved.htm

I want to thank both you and Seebs publicly for bringing to light the truth about CARM.

It is nice to see that not everyone is bent on taking away someone's rights to believe as they see fit and to actually support that no man can define for someone else if they follow Christ.

Bless you
Casi

 

[MarsHill]

You cannot see Christ from two different and contradictory viewpoints and honestly believe that they are both right. If one is right then the other is wrong. You can look at it in two ways. Either both views are wrong or if one view is right then the other view is wrong. Just because your view of Jesus is valid for you doesn't mean that your view is true or even worth following. It's not about all views of Jesus being acceptable. There is a right and wrong answer. IF ALL BELIEFS ABOUT JESUS ARE CORRECT THEN WHY DID HE HAVE TO DIE AT ALL. IF WE CAN BELIEVE WHATEVER WE WANT ABOUT JESUS AND HE IS GOING TO ACCEPT ANY AND ALL ANSWERS THEN WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? ONE CAN HAVE FAITH THAT JESUS SHOPPED AT WAL-MART TODAY FOR AN X-BOX 360 BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. ONE CAN BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE ISN'T. OBJECTIVE TRUTH REMAINS TRUTH WHETHER ONE ACCEPTS IT AS BEING TRUE OR NOT.
Jesus cannot be a contradictory Saviour. Contrary to what has been stated out here it does matter what you believe about Jesus. Otherwise He could have come here as a deaf mute and not said anything at all. If His words and teachings are open to any interpretation that we see fit for our lives then in the end it doesn't really matter what He said. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT TO YOU? That means that anyone can make the words of Jesus mean anything they want to and still be considered a Christian by this loose definition. Do you not see the danger in this?

It cannot work this way. When we are standing before Him at the judgment and He says, "Depart from me I never knew you" are we going to say, "Yeah but You see Jesus you can't do that because I thought you meant.........." or "You have to reward me Jesus because it was my opinion that what you said did not mean X it actually meant Y therefore you should let me in based upon what I thought was correct not what you (Jesus) said was correct."
In other words this terrible theory means that we should be rewarded even if we get everything wrong.

When it comes to Christianity there are some things that we consider non-essential that may be debated yet do not effect our salvation. But, this is not true of Jesus. If you start with a wrong concept of Jesus then everything falls apart from there. Truth is more important than what you feel or believe.

 

[Eldy]

How can one be "absolutely" sure that some Mormons are Christians? I submit that we change "absolutely" to "probably".
I can agree with the rest of your statement. When we get to heaven we will probably be surprised. Some people we thought would be there will not be and others we thought would not be there will be.

It's obvious that most people within our churches are not Christians. This has proven to be a great problem with the Christian faith in general. In fact it is perhaps the biggest problem. I heard a Christian apologist recently state, "The biggest problem that I have with faith is that so many people profess to know and love the Lord Jesus Christ yet they are so far away from doing what He asks of them." That pierces my heart and should cut through all of us.

In that vain we can also say that there is not "absolutely" any Christians anywhere. Luckily I believe that when we get to Heaven we will see that all are going to be joining us, including and absolutely, every single mormon who ever walked, even if in this existence they were not Christians.

 

[CaDan]

You cannot see Christ from two different and contradictory viewpoints and honestly believe that they are both right. If one is right then the other is wrong. You can look at it in two ways. Either both views are wrong or if one view is right then the other view is wrong. Just because your view of Jesus is valid for you doesn't mean that your view is true or even worth following. It's not about all views of Jesus being acceptable. There is a right and wrong answer. IF ALL BELIEFS ABOUT JESUS ARE CORRECT THEN WHY DID HE HAVE TO DIE AT ALL. IF WE CAN BELIEVE WHATEVER WE WANT ABOUT JESUS AND HE IS GOING TO ACCEPT ANY AND ALL ANSWERS THEN WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? ONE CAN HAVE FAITH THAT JESUS SHOPPED AT WAL-MART TODAY FOR AN X-BOX 360 BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. ONE CAN BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE ISN'T. OBJECTIVE TRUTH REMAINS TRUTH WHETHER ONE ACCEPTS IT AS BEING TRUE OR NOT.
Jesus cannot be a contradictory Saviour. Contrary to what has been stated out here it does matter what you believe about Jesus. Otherwise He could have come here as a deaf mute and not said anything at all. If His words and teachings are open to any interpretation that we see fit for our lives then in the end it doesn't really matter what He said. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT TO YOU? That means that anyone can make the words of Jesus mean anything they want to and still be considered a Christian by this loose definition. Do you not see the danger in this?

It cannot work this way. When we are standing before Him at the judgment and He says, "Depart from me I never knew you" are we going to say, "Yeah but You see Jesus you can't do that because I thought you meant.........." or "You have to reward me Jesus because it was my opinion that what you said did not mean X it actually meant Y therefore you should let me in based upon what I thought was correct not what you (Jesus) said was correct."
In other words this terrible theory means that we should be rewarded even if we get everything wrong.

When it comes to Christianity there are some things that we consider non-essential that may be debated yet do not effect our salvation. But, this is not true of Jesus. If you start with a wrong concept of Jesus then everything falls apart from there. Truth is more important than what you feel or believe.

Hmm . . . that whole "truly God and truly Man" thing strikes me as pretty contradictory.

But call me crazy.

 

[peaceful soul]

In that vain we can also say that there is not "absolutely" any Christians anywhere. Luckily I believe that when we get to Heaven we will see that all are going to be joining us, including and absolutely, every single mormon who ever walked, even if in this existence they were not Christians.

I am not certain as to what you mean. In response to the reaminder of your post:That would cheapen Christ's message if that were true and render it useless. MarsHill's last post is 100% correct.

The reality is almost certain that we will see that some Mormons who were not hardcore believers may get a change of heart and learn who the real Christ is can be saved; likewise people from other beliefs will find the real Christ and be saved. Probably many of the ones who think they are saved because they revere Christ and/or believe in some way will be lost in the end because in their minds, they would have been obeying Christ.

Great post, MarsHill!! Very succint and accurate.

 

[MarsHill]

Hmm . . . that whole "truly God and truly Man" thing strikes me as pretty contradictory.

But call me crazy.

Appearing contradictory to you and being completely true to God are two separate things. Just because one cannot comprehend it or one does not believe it does not make it false or even contradictory.

That's part of our attempt to fully comprehend the nature of God. Why would we ever think that we as His "creation" could fully comprehend Him as the "Creator"? We would have to be God in order to know everything about God.

Contradictions in the mind do not necessarily exist within reality.

 

[MarsHill]

In that vain we can also say that there is not "absolutely" any Christians anywhere. Luckily I believe that when we get to Heaven we will see that all are going to be joining us, including and absolutely, every single mormon who ever walked, even if in this existence they were not Christians.

Since we are not the ones doing the ultimate and final judgment then what matters is who God sees as being "absolutely" Christian. But, God has given us what we need to know about how to become an "absolute" Christian. If you decide to re-interpret what He has revealed to us in your own terms or for your own purposes then only you are to blame for not "absolutely" being a Christian.

 

[MarsHill]

In that vain we can also say that there is not "absolutely" any Christians anywhere. Luckily I believe that when we get to Heaven we will see that all are going to be joining us, including and absolutely, every single mormon who ever walked, even if in this existence they were not Christians.

Does this mean you believe in "universal" salvation? That is salvation for all? If this is true then it really doesn't matter what you believe about Christ and He wasted his time and breath while He was with us. That's a little bold don't you think. If a person is not a Christian while on earth but will be in heaven after their death even if they were not true Christians then what's the point in any of this? Why did Jesus have to die? How can Jesus be the Way, the Truth, and the Life if no one has to believe in His way, follow and trust in His truth, or rely on Him for eternal life? This means that you or I can live any way we see fit. I can give into every sinful thing I want to if there are no consequences. If I can make it to heaven even if I get everything wrong in this life then why even bother trying?

That means every single contradiction is acceptable. If God is not the "author of confusion" then why should we allow for such confusion? If "all are going to be joining us" then Jesus lied. All paths do not lead to Heaven no more than all roads from Alabama lead to California. I can get on one road and leave Alabama and honestly believe that any road I take will lead me to California but holding to that belief will cause me some problems. First, I will waste alot of gas. Second, I will waste a lot of time. Third, I will place alot of un-necessary miles on a vehicle. Fourth, I will most likely get lost. Fifth, and most importantly I CAN HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT ANY ROAD I TAKE WILL LEAD ME TO MY CHOSEN DESTINATION BUT THE BIGGEST AND MOST FATAL CONSEQUENCE IN BELIEVING THAT IS THAT IF I TAKE THE WRONG WAY THEN I WILL NEVER, EVER GET TO THE PLACE I EXPECTED TO GO.
This is the same with heaven. I can honestly believe that any way I take will eventually lead me to God. Unfortunately that does not seem to hold true. By believing this you will waste time, waste energy, get lost, and worst of all never get to heaven which is where God desires you to be. Jesus was either the Way or not the Way. If He is not the Way then he lied and we are all arguing about something that will never matter on the overall scheme of things. I'm not willing to rest my eternal salvation on such a proposition.

 

[Eldy]

Since we are not the ones doing the ultimate and final judgment then what matters is who God sees as being "absolutely" Christian. But, God has given us what we need to know about how to become an "absolute" Christian. If you decide to re-interpret what He has revealed to us in your own terms or for your own purposes then only you are to blame for not "absolutely" being a Christian.

LOL! Basically this is what I hear in all the evangelical churches; If you don't believe everything we teach and OUR interpretation of the Bible then you are going to hell forever and ever and ever. Thankfully my God is so far above such antics.

 

[Eldy]

Does this mean you believe in "universal" salvation? That is salvation for all? If this is true then it really doesn't matter what you believe about Christ and He wasted his time and breath while He was with us. That's a little bold don't you think. If a person is not a Christian while on earth but will be in heaven after their death even if they were not true Christians then what's the point in any of this? Why did Jesus have to die? How can Jesus be the Way, the Truth, and the Life if no one has to believe in His way, follow and trust in His truth, or rely on Him for eternal life? This means that you or I can live any way we see fit. I can give into every sinful thing I want to if there are no consequences. If I can make it to heaven even if I get everything wrong in this life then why even bother trying?

That means every single contradiction is acceptable. If God is not the "author of confusion" then why should we allow for such confusion? If "all are going to be joining us" then Jesus lied. All paths do not lead to Heaven no more than all roads from Alabama lead to California. I can get on one road and leave Alabama and honestly believe that any road I take will lead me to California but holding to that belief will cause me some problems. First, I will waste alot of gas. Second, I will waste a lot of time. Third, I will place alot of un-necessary miles on a vehicle. Fourth, I will most likely get lost. Fifth, and most importantly I CAN HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT ANY ROAD I TAKE WILL LEAD ME TO MY CHOSEN DESTINATION BUT THE BIGGEST AND MOST FATAL CONSEQUENCE IN BELIEVING THAT IS THAT IF I TAKE THE WRONG WAY THEN I WILL NEVER, EVER GET TO THE PLACE I EXPECTED TO GO.
This is the same with heaven. I can honestly believe that any way I take will eventually lead me to God. Unfortunately that does not seem to hold true. By believing this you will waste time, waste energy, get lost, and worst of all never get to heaven which is where God desires you to be. Jesus was either the Way or not the Way. If He is not the Way then he lied and we are all arguing about something that will never matter on the overall scheme of things. I'm not willing to rest my eternal salvation on such a proposition.

Yes, I am a universalist. And it does not take away anything from the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross. He saved us all from sin and death. Had He not gone to the cross the salvation of all His creation was not going to happen. I find that seeing the universal salvation of people makes His atonement much more amazing then the weak one attributed to Him by modern evangelicals that say He came and did it but that satan was so much more powerful then Him that the vast majority of His creation slipped through His grasp and that His atonement and sacrifice was not very potent.

 

[CaDan]

Does this mean you believe in "universal" salvation? That is salvation for all? If this is true then it really doesn't matter what you believe about Christ and He wasted his time and breath while He was with us. That's a little bold don't you think. If a person is not a Christian while on earth but will be in heaven after their death even if they were not true Christians then what's the point in any of this? Why did Jesus have to die? How can Jesus be the Way, the Truth, and the Life if no one has to believe in His way, follow and trust in His truth, or rely on Him for eternal life? This means that you or I can live any way we see fit. I can give into every sinful thing I want to if there are no consequences. If I can make it to heaven even if I get everything wrong in this life then why even bother trying?

You are among the grownups here. We ain't afraid of a little Universalism.

And I am afraid you are arguing for a garden-variety discipline and punish religion--the good are rewarded and the evil are punished. Christianity is a bit more complex than that.

 

[isaiah53five]

Matthew 7: 13-14 (ESV) - Jesus' Sermon on the Mount - Directly from the son of GOD on Eternal Life.....

"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

Refer also to Matthew 7: 21-23 regarding those who profess to know Christ, but don't truly know him.

Between these two passages the Lord tells us to beware of false prophets.

We must take these words to heart. It is very clear that the way to heaven is narrow. This is a absolute truth. Christ is absolute and his teachings are absolute. That is problem with the postmodern church, most say that there are no absolutes. Everyone is right and if that is the case everyone is wrong. That simply is not possible. Once again, Jesus is absolute, he is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. There is no way to deviate from the word, because (well just read John 1:1.) Jesus is the WORD manifest. Jesus is absolute truth, bottom line.

 

[MarsHill]

Yes, I am a universalist. And it does not take away anything from the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross. He saved us all from sin and death. Had He not gone to the cross the salvation of all His creation was not going to happen. I find that seeing the universal salvation of people makes His atonement much more amazing then the weak one attributed to Him by modern evangelicals that say He came and did it but that satan was so much more powerful then Him that the vast majority of His creation slipped through His grasp and that His atonement and sacrifice was not very potent.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are "few" who find it."

Matthew 25:41- "Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

II Thessalonians 1:7-9 Paul speaks of punishment on the wicked as being "everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord."

God wants us to love him. Love comes from the ability to choose who we will and will not love. If "we" do not love God while we are on this earth then what makes you so sure that those who do not love God would even want to be in heaven with Him when everything is said and done?

The "atonement" gives those who freely choose to accept Him the right to enter in the kingdom. Yes, the atonement makes it "possible" for universal salvation but the arrogance, pride, hatred, an complete unwillingness of many men and women makes it out of the question. In the end if everyone is "saved" then the process will have to start all over again. Surely those who have been "forced into salvation" will rebel sooner or later.

I do not see Universalism as something Jesus taught. If it were true then there would be no need to take the "narrow gate". When Jesus said, "Follow me" we would have every right to say, "Why, Jesus? In the end we will all receive the same benefit so for now just leave me alone and let me do what I want to do with my life. I will enjoy the benefits you offer in the end but not right now!" Should a perfect and holy God allow us such a privilege? If we are not willing to live by His teaching now then why would we even want to do it in eternity?

 

[CaDan]

So Christianity is just about the Golden Ticket to heaven? OK.