Are Mormon's Christian?

[MarsHill]

In the end will heaven be populated with an entire group of forgiven sinners that are still running from God? There will have to be some force involved in order to make heaven a peaceful place if this happens. Does that sound like heaven to you? Will God allow this in heaven?

 

[CaDan]

In the end will heaven be populated with an entire group of forgiven sinners that are still running from God? There will have to be some force involved in order to make heaven a peaceful place if this happens. Does that sound like heaven to you? Will God allow this in heaven?

We'll find out when we get there, I suppose.

I tend not to worry about it.

 

[MarsHill]

LOL! Basically this is what I hear in all the evangelical churches; If you don't believe everything we teach and OUR interpretation of the Bible then you are going to hell forever and ever and ever. Thankfully my God is so far above such antics.

You cannot say, "This is what I hear in `all` of the evangelical churches" unless you have visited "every" evangelical church in existence.

Didn't Jesus teach that there would be those who go to hell for ever and ever?

You make the statement that evangelicals are teaching that they are right and those who oppose are wrong. In other words evangelicals are narrow minded. Are you not saying that your interpretation is right and the evangelicals are wrong. Is that not considered as being equally exclusive? If the evangelicals are saying, "If you do not believe in our interpretation then you are sentenced to an eternity in hell." Then the universalist is saying, "Even if you do not believe in our interpretation you are still sentenced to an eternity in heaven. Even if you do not wish to be there!"

 

[MarsHill]

We'll find out when we get there, I suppose.

I tend not to worry about it.

Worrying about it then may place you where you do not desire to be. Why worry about it when it is too late?

If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.

Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.

By the way--- your signature should read "No peace without the Prince of Peace."

 

[CaDan]

Worrying about it then may place you where you do not desire to be. Why worry about it when it is too late?

If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.

Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.

I'll take a pass on Pascal's wager, thank you.

By the way--- your signature should read "No peace without the Prince of Peace."

But Father Abraham did have many sons!

Oh, the other bit.

Perhaps by manifesting the fruit of the Spirit ourselves through dialogue and discussion, we can help bring about a bit of the Kingdom of God. I certainly hope so. I'm with St. Francis of Assissi on this one:

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.​

 

[MarsHill]

I'll take a pass on Pascal's wager, thank you.



But Father Abraham did have many sons!

Oh, the other bit.

Perhaps by manifesting the fruit of the Spirit ourselves through dialogue and discussion, we can help bring about a bit of the Kingdom of God. I certainly hope so. I'm with St. Francis of Assissi on this one:

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;





where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.




​

You can pass up Pascal's wager all you want. Just remember that it won't be a valid excuse. Blaise Pascal also said, "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive." You should remember that Truth is not a matter of taste but it is an objective matter of fact and believing a lie will not change that.

I do not think our dialogue or the manner in which we discuss things will bring about the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God will manifest itself with or without us. Love, pardon, faith, light, hope and joy can ultimately only come from Jesus Christ. I care about each and every person out here. My goal is to discover Truth. Truth is the bottom line. The truth about Jesus can overcome hatred, injury, doubt, despair, darkness and sadness. But, those things will exist until we are in His presence.

Father Abraham did have many sons but only one God that was to unite them all. Unfortunately Isaac's descendants and Ishmael's descendants do not agree on the overall picture of God.

 

[seebs]

I am not certain as to what you mean. In response to the reaminder of your post:That would cheapen Christ's message if that were true and render it useless.

No it wouldn't. It would render His message true.

Which would be sorta neat, I think.

 

[seebs]

You can pass up Pascal's wager all you want. Just remember that it won't be a valid excuse.

It's not a valid argument.

If it were, we would all follow MegaGawd, who will damn you and the two people you love most if you reject HHHim, but will send you to Heaven with two people of your choice if you accept HHHim. Until they heard about SuperMaxiGod, who will damn five people if you reject HHHHHim.

And so on.

Much better to have actual faith than be suckered by a bad argument.

Blaise Pascal also said, "People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive." You should remember that Truth is not a matter of taste but it is an objective matter of fact and believing a lie will not change that.

Right. Pascal's wager is bogus, no matter how pretty it sounds.

I do not think our dialogue or the manner in which we discuss things will bring about the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God will manifest itself with or without us.

No, it will manifest itself in us and through us. This is in the Bible, you can look it up if you want.

My goal is to discover Truth. Truth is the bottom line.

Then you should reject shoddy argumentation even if it seems to yield nice results.

Father Abraham did have many sons but only one God that was to unite them all. Unfortunately Isaac's descendants and Ishmael's descendants do not agree on the overall picture of God.

So what? They can disagree about what God is like all they want. The chances are that Isaac's and Ishmael's descendants also disagreed about what Abraham is like, but it doesn't mean that Isaac and Ishmael had different fathers named Abraham.

If we are to be monotheists, then we are stuck with the realization that everyone who worships the One God worships the same God we do. There is no other Creator of All Things.

 

[seebs]

If there ends up being no universal salvation and no second chances then you have lost everything my friend.

This seems to be implying that he is not Christian. Why would you do that?

Spending eternity wishing for another chance is not something I would choose.

But you may have chosen it, because if there is only one right answer, it is possible that someone else has it and you don't.

In the end, we must trust God to treat us better than we deserve. Conveniently, we are justified in this trust.

 

[Cassiopeia]

This seems to be implying that he is not Christian. Why would you do that?



But you may have chosen it, because if there is only one right answer, it is possible that someone else has it and you don't.

In the end, we must trust God to treat us better than we deserve. Conveniently, we are justified in this trust.

And that is just it, isn't it seebs, all we can do is trust in God. It is called faith.

I too wonder why he would imply someone is not a Christian and would tear away from him his faith? To what end does one destroy someone else's beliefs? Can one of us prove our beliefs? I don't think so or it would be referred to someone's perfect knowledge.

Thank you for your enlightening posts. I was wondering what is so bad about Universalism. I know little of it but just got accused of being that on another forum. I feel a little stupid. I don't put much stock in labels and I don't think God does either.

 

[MarsHill]

It's not a valid argument.

If it were, we would all follow MegaGawd, who will damn you and the two people you love most if you reject HHHim, but will send you to Heaven with two people of your choice if you accept HHHim. Until they heard about SuperMaxiGod, who will damn five people if you reject HHHHHim.

And so on.

Much better to have actual faith than be suckered by a bad argument.



Right. Pascal's wager is bogus, no matter how pretty it sounds.



No, it will manifest itself in us and through us. This is in the Bible, you can look it up if you want.



Then you should reject shoddy argumentation even if it seems to yield nice results.



So what? They can disagree about what God is like all they want. The chances are that Isaac's and Ishmael's descendants also disagreed about what Abraham is like, but it doesn't mean that Isaac and Ishmael had different fathers named Abraham.

If we are to be monotheists, then we are stuck with the realization that everyone who worships the One God worships the same God we do. There is no other Creator of All Things.

I've said nothing about MegaGawd or Super Maxi Gawd. I've stated what Jesus has said. Attacking me with your humorous over-enunciations doesn't change the facts. You stated that it is better to have actual faith than to be suckered by a bad argument. Can you give a better argument to disprove Pascal's argument? Or do you actually have one? Have you come up with a better idea to justify your reasoning?
If Issac and Ishmael differed in their opinion in what Abraham was like then what would happen if Abraham asked them both to do something but they both interpreted it differently? What if there were consequences and/or punishment from Father Abraham if one of the siblings did not properly do what he asked them to do? The argument is not whether we worship a different God. There is only one God whether we believe in Him or even like the fact. But, if God the Father tells us that there is one way to do something and we decide to re-interpret what He has said and do it our way anyway then should we not suffer the consequences or receive the punishment? Differing in opinion o an earthly father is much different than differing in opinion on our heavenly Father. Eternal consequences seem a little more important.

Please do not attack an argument without giving your reason why? it is not valid. What is your problem with Pascal?

You tell me that there are things in the Bible that I should look up. I have mentioned a picture of salvation and of God that is in the Bible as well. Why have you refused to look it up?

 

[CaDan]

If Issac and Ishmael differed in their opinion in what Abraham was like then what would happen if Abraham asked them both to do something but they both interpreted it differently? What if there were consequences and/or punishment from Father Abraham if one of the siblings did not properly do what he asked them to do? The argument is not whether we worship a different God. There is only one God whether we believe in Him or even like the fact. But, if God the Father tells us that there is one way to do something and we decide to re-interpret what He has said and do it our way anyway then should we not suffer the consequences or receive the punishment? Differing in opinion o an earthly father is much different than differing in opinion on our heavenly Father. Eternal consequences seem a little more important.

Good thing we got us some clear instructions:

[bible]Matthew 5:43-48[/bible]

 

[CaDan]

Oh, and why are we having this discussion in NCR?

 

[MarsHill]

I cannot love you into heaven and God's love for you will not automatically place you there either.
Being perfect is something that Christ has done on the behalf of the believer. We must allow His perfection to act through us but we will never realize ultimate perfection until we are in heaven.

I agree with the scripture quote and will pray for you to see God's truth. If I ever see you I will also salute you and treat you no differently than anyone else.

 

[MarsHill]

Oh, and why are we having this discussion in NCR?

We can have this discussion here until we come to some sort of agreement on what is actually true Christianity? If you haven't noticed there seems to be quite a bit of disagreement on that subject.

If universalism is true then we should not even have a NCR forum because by their definition all religions would lead to God thus making them all Christian in the end.

 

[MarsHill]

What problems do you have with Pascal's Wager? If there is not God then it does not matter. But, you must be absolutely sure that there is no God. It has been explained that life is moving and we are slowly but surely running out of time. Eventually there comes a point of no return. What remains of our life will run out and it will be too late. The "wager" works because there is a "fact of death".

 

[CaDan]

But what if I choose the Gospel simply because it is a better way of life right here and right now?

 

[MarsHill]

This seems to be implying that he is not Christian. Why would you do that?

That's not an implication that he is not a Christian. But, if universalism is not true and we are expected to have faith in the right way then simply believing in universalism will not save us. Saying, "I simply choose to believe in the end that everyone will be saved" seems contrary to the facts we have been given. I agree. It would be nice to see everyone saved. I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I cannot valid evidence that proves it.



But you may have chosen it, because if there is only one right answer, it is possible that someone else has it and you don't.

In the end, we must trust God to treat us better than we deserve. Conveniently, we are justified in this trust.

I do believe that God's judgment will be fair. If He is righteous then His judgment will also be righteous. If it is possible that someone else has the right answer and some of us do not then who has it? Is God not mighty enough to reveal His plan to us? Or do we all just simply wonder around on this earth hoping that we have the right way? Jesus is the right way. Contradictory ways do not seem probable.

 

[Cassandra]

Peepnklown-

Your personal information states that you are an atheist. How does an atheist become and expert on Mormon theology? If you know for sure that there is no God then why are you studying a relgion that claims that are many gods? Maybe you are not a true atheist. What is your view?

This isn't directed towards me...but being an atheist does not prevent someone from having knowledge or seeking knowledge about religion/s. Maybe he was once a Mormon or he just thought it would be interesting to find out what it was about and decided to study it. I'm currently in a World Religions class and don't follow any of the religions we study. Nor do I have a secret desire to.

 

[S Walch]

walch... nothing to say of yourself? all you do is post links to an anti-mormon website. carms. That doesn't really help much. I'm asking you, and i think peep is asking you to make it clear in words what makes a christian. We've already established that the definition of 'christian' is totally unrelated to the nicean creed.

list the commandments.... liste the teachings of Jesus... and i'll tell you if i agree with them or not.

Why bother posting the EXACT same things when I can just link to a site which does them for me?

And why label it down to things to what just Jesus has said - Let's take the whole Bible into acount eh?