Are desires sinful?

[SingularityOne]

Been thinking on this for a bit since it was brought up in my sex therapy class that desire is amoral. However, the meaning of “desire” in this class may mean “temptation.” What would the Church say about “desire” and it’s relation to sin - how about “temptation” and it’s relation to sin?

edit: when does a evil desire become a sin - prior to an act, or when the desire is acted upon?

 

[Phronema]

Been thinking on this for a bit since it was brought up in my sex therapy class that desire is amoral. However, the meaning of “desire” in this class may mean “temptation.” What would the Church say about “desire” and it’s relation to sin - how about “temptation” and it’s relation to sin?

In the context of sex I'd say that "desires" are normal. We were created that way so that we would reproduce. It's what we do with that thought, or desire that may, or may not be sinful I think.

 

[AMM]

Even in the context of sin specifically, don't the fathers teach that temptation occurs in stages. The first stage of sin is a thought or a desire, but at that point no sin has been committed?

 

[ReesePiece23]

I have a burning desire to 10x my biblical understandings, my world view, and my discipleship.

 

[icxn]

It depends on the object and measure of said desire. In the case of sinful desires, like AMM said, they are not counted as sins unless the mind yields to them and finds pleasure in them.

 

[SingularityOne]

In the context of sex I'd say that "desires" are normal. We were created that way so that we would reproduce. It's what we do with that thought, or desire that may, or may not be sinful I think.

So, in the context of sex, desires are normal to what degree? Are you saying that they are normal in that we all yearn to reproduce, but this can be a sin outside of the marriage context? I’m wondering when this normal desire becomes a sin though.

 

[Phronema]

Even in the context of sin specifically, don't the fathers teach that temptation occurs in stages. The first stage of sin is a thought or a desire, but at that point no sin has been committed?

I've read that exactly actually.

I was meaning that the idea of "desire" in the context of sin is the driving force behind the how, and why we are able to reproduce. You can desire your wife/husband, and it still be just. That sort of thing is blessed by God in the context of a proper marriage.

 

[Palmfever]

Desires are natural. Intrusive thoughts are normal. Our responses are our responsibility.
In Christ

 

[SingularityOne]

Even in the context of sin specifically, don't the fathers teach that temptation occurs in stages. The first stage of sin is a thought or a desire, but at that point no sin has been committed?

I’d like to learn more about this. So are you saying that a desire that isn’t acted upon isn’t a sin?

 

[SingularityOne]

It depends on the object and measure of said desire. In the case of sinful desires, like AMM said, they are not counted as sins unless the mind yields to them and finds pleasure in them.

So it’s not a sin prior to the taking of pleasure in that desire? I thought sin was an behavior/act only... could you explain this more please?

 

[SingularityOne]

I've read that exactly actually.

I was meaning that the idea of "desire" in the context of sin is the driving force behind the how, and why we are able to reproduce. You can desire your wife/husband, and it still be just. That sort of thing is blessed by God in the context of a proper marriage.

So, you’re saying the what differentiates the good/bad desire is the “how” and the “why?”

 

[icxn]

So it’s not a sin prior to the taking of pleasure in that desire?

That's right.

I thought sin was an behavior/act only... could you explain this more please?

Matthew 5:28

 

[SingularityOne]

That's right.

Matthew 5:28

Interesting... so a desire becomes a sin when the desire is coupled with pleasure internally?

 

[Phronema]

So, in the context of sex, desires are normal to what degree? Are you saying that they are normal in that we all yearn to reproduce, but this can be a sin outside of the marriage context? I’m wondering when this normal desire becomes a sin though.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word desire, but in a blessed marriage sex is quite normal, and even commanded by God in Scripture that we be fruitful, and multiply.

Outside of sex with ones wife/husband it's probably considered sinful though, and as always it's best to ask your priest.

I may be missing the question. I suppose you're not asking a question that's applicable to my answers. Mentally I think I'm shot. I'm going to bow out of the thread as I've had a long day, and it's almost 10 pm here.

 

[F.E.A.R.]

All kinds of desires are from the demons, except for the spiritual desire. The rest are desires of the body and demons. Adam desired to eat from the tree and all humankind fell.

 

[AMM]

I think the fathers said that first we have the thought/temptation/desire. Then we engage with the thought ("hm, should I do this, or not do this?"). These two stages are both without sin. However when we go to the next stage (the acceptance of the thought "I will do this"), we have committed sin in our mind, but we have still not actually sinned until we do the action. Following through with the temptation is a sin, and then when repeated it becomes a passion.

I might be remembering the details wrong. One of the books I just finished had a section on it. I can try to find it and post later after work.

And I guess, if the desire is for something that is not sinful (like the conjugal act of marriage, or the desire to go to the Liturgy, or the desire to give alms, or something), then this is different, I would think.

 

[ArmyMatt]

desire rules man = evil.
man rules desire = good.

 

[SingularityOne]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word desire, but in a blessed marriage sex is quite normal, and even commanded by God in Scripture that we be fruitful, and multiply.

Outside of sex with ones wife/husband it's probably considered sinful though, and as always it's best to ask your priest.

I may be missing the question. I suppose you're not asking a question that's applicable to my answers. Mentally I think I'm shot. I'm going to bow out of the thread as I've had a long day, and it's almost 10 pm here.

Thank you for the helpful answers this far. I hope you have a good rest up for recovery from the day.

 

[SingularityOne]

All kinds of desires are from the demons, except for the spiritual desire. The rest are desires of the body and demons. Adam desired to eat from the tree and all humankind fell.

I agree, after some thought. When you say “the body” do you mean desires that one has made a habit and subjected their will to voluntarily or involuntarily?

 

[SingularityOne]

desire rules man = evil.
man rules desire = good.

When does the desire become a sin? Before the act (as it says in Matthew 5:28) or when the act is performed?