Are Christians allowed to eat pork under the New Covenant?

[Tangible]

That was the thinking of many people in the dark ages at the time of the plague -- they were in fact eating rats and dying from it.

This is a glaring historically and biologically incorrect statement.

While there may have been a small amount of rodentophagia taking place due to extreme poverty, the reason that people were dying was because of an epidemic infection of Yersinia pestis, a bacterium carried and transmitted by Xenopsylla cheopis, the rat flea.

People weren't dying from eating rats. They were dying because they were being bitten by rat fleas carrying the plague which were in turn being carried by rats.

Many times more rats died during the plague outbreaks than did people. If people had not been susceptible to Y. pestis, it would have been a very effective method of pest control.

So anyway, if you don't want to eat rodents, then don't. You are free in Christ to eat or not to eat. I would recommend cooking them thoroughly first if you do.

Here is a great resource it would be well worth your time to study. It is a letter written from Martin Luther to Pope Leo X concerning, among other things, Christian Liberty.

Internet History Sourcebooks

Also, because this is funny ...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Are Christians allowed to eat pork under the New Covenant?

I'm not sure, but I once ate a pork hotdog under an oak tree.

 

[Tangible]

Romans 7
Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[Reformed2]

Yuppers! And its yum yum

 

[BobRyan]

The actual Gospel is the good news about what God has done through Jesus Christ for us and for our salvation.

Indeed. It is "Call no MAN unclean" as Peter said in Acts 10.

It is not the gospel of "more rat sandwiches" as a few people have supposed.

Have you ever stopped to think that there are actually places in the world where a rat could make the difference between living and starving to death?

That was the thinking of many people in the dark ages at the time of the plague -- they were in fact eating rats and dying from it.

But not the Jews in Europe. They knew that God had made the distinction long ago - long before Moses - even at the time of Noah - before the flood.

Dietary laws were put in place to differentiate the nation of Israel from pagan Canaanites. Now that Jesus Christ has broken down the wall of hostility that separated Jew from Gentile, uniting the two into one people through faith, there is no more need for dietary restrictions and prohibitions.

Matthew 15
And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

That is a repeat of what we also find in Mark 7. (as we just saw).

================================= mark 7

In Mark 7 Jesus confronts "Jewish tradition" -- in this case it is about "eating bread" with "impure hands" -- hands that were not ceremonially cleansed from 'sin' which was supposedly gotten by touching something from a gentile in the market place)

Mark 7
The Pharisees and some of the scribes gathered around Him when they had come from Jerusalem, 2 and had seen that some of His disciples were eating their bread with impure hands, that is, unwashed.

Ceremony -- dipping of pots to wash the sin off of them - lest you eat the bread and it have sin on it - and then you get sin inside you in that way - and are then a sinner, defiled.

Mark 7
3 (For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they carefully wash their hands, thus observing the traditions of the elders; 4 and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)

This is not at all about tossing the Bible out the window -- it is about tossing man-made-tradition out the window.

Mark 7
5 The Pharisees and the scribes *asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their bread with impure hands?”

=============================== Jesus' response.

Jesus response is not of the form "stick a rat in that bread please - toss your Bible out the window.. this is my Gospel".

Rather Jesus says to toss the man-made-traditions out the window that dare to contradict what "Moses said" --- that dare to contradict the OT "commandment of God" that dare to contradict the scriptures in the OT text that Jesus calls "the Word of God".

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Jesus shows a clear contradiction - a war - between the "Commandments of men" - the "traditions of men"

vs the TRUTH which Jesus called "The Word of God" - and He called it the "Commandment of God" and also called "Moses said" by Jesus.

I am indeed thankful that those who would like to claim Jesus said to trash "what Moses said" and trash "The Word of God as found in scriptures of his day" -- are rushing headlong into Mark 7 to make their case.

This is a glaring historically and biologically incorrect statement.

You are of course welcomed to your opinion. You do have free will.

I on the other hand will stick with the actual Bible.

Including the obvious detail that Noah eating even one horse - would mean "no more horses" since the unclean animals only go into the ark by 2's while the clean animals go in by seven's in Genesis 7.

While there may have been a small amount of rodentophagia taking place due to extreme poverty, the reason that people were dying was because of an epidemic infection of Yersinia pestis, a bacterium carried and transmitted by Xenopsylla cheopis, the rat flea.

Not sure if your just trying to make more of my point than has already been made - but if that is your intent. You are doing well.

The fleas on the rats that people were inclined to eat - brought them the plague that was not being transmitted to the Jews who followed the Bible and chose not to have the rat sandwich.

So anyway, if you don't want to eat rodents, then don't. You are free in Christ to eat or not to eat.

More specifically we do not have a "rat sandwich" Gospel in the actual Bible. That is something people make up - for reasons that are not apparent.

 

[BobRyan]

from Black Death - New World Encyclopedia

Because Jews had a religious obligation to be clean, they did not use water from public wells. Thus Jews were suspected of causing the plague by deliberately poisoning wells. Typically, comparatively fewer Jews died from the Black Death, in part due to Kashrut (rabbinical laws) that called for a lifestyle that was, in general, cleaner than that of a typical medieval villager, and because of isolation in Jewish ghettos. This difference in mortality rate raised the suspicion of people who at that time had no concept of bacterial transmission.

I am pleased to see that some here will walk their own opposition to God's Word in Lev 11 right off the cliff - right out to the point of arguing for rat sandwiches as a "Benefit" of the Gospel.

Meanwhile the actual Bible makes no such claim about the Gospel AND history shows the "lesson learned" where the rat-sandwich group can be compared to the non-rat-eating population in Europe during the black death event in Europe.

 

[BobRyan]

Note that nothing in the 10 commandments of the Old Covenant forbids Christians from eating pork.

Neither do the Ten Commandments say "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Neither does the NT quote the commandment "Do not take God's name in vain". Ex 20:7

Also, note that the idea of each of the 10 commandments is repeated in the New Testament/New Covenant.

All "but one" as it turns out.

And where is the NEW Covenant found?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 "I will make a NEW Covenant with them... THIS is the Covenant I will make.. I will write MY LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

What LAWs of God did Jeremiah and his readers know about?

Did they know not to eat rats?

Lev 11 says - yes they knew not to eat rats - just as they knew Lev 19:18 to "Love your neighbor as yourself". Just as they knew that Noah takes only 2 of the unclean animals on the boat and took in the clean animals "by sevens".

Which means "extinction" results from eating even ONE of the unclean animal species.

So then - no rat sandwiches as it turns out - under that NEW Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33

Repeated as "unchanged" in Hebrews 8:6-10

 

[Bible2+]

BobRyan said in post #407:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 "I will make a NEW Covenant with them... THIS is the Covenant I will make.. I will write MY LAWS on their heart and on their mind".

Note that the law was changed with the covenant:

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[BobRyan]

Note that the law was changed with the covenant:

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Nothing in Hebrews 7 says that eating rats is now ok as if the OT text was being tossed out the window.

Hebrews 7 is talking about the law of the Priesthood - where only the descendants of Levi could be a priest. IT is arguing for the priesthood of Christ - it is not arguing for "taking God's name in vain" as if that moral law of God - that commandment got deleted.

Nor was Christ's message after the cross "Forget the Bible I will be making up new things" -- In fact in Luke 24:27 the Gospel is preached "from all of scripture" that was in fact specifically the "OT".
"And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." Luke 24:27.

And then of course we have Christ saying that the Law cannot be downsized/deleted

Mark 7
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

What is more Eph 6:2 reminds us that the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" in that still-valid still-binding set of "Ten Commandments"

What is more - in Matt 22 Christ reminds us that the Mosaic law contains the greatest commandments and they too are still binding - though they are not found in the TEN.
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself."

And Isaiah 66 tells us that at the end of the world those who eat mice - are to be judged.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was surprised to see this ancient thread resurrected. I enjoyed an excellent breakfast of sausage and eggs and an excellent dinner of pork steak. I remain in good health and as spunky as ever.

By the way, dog is okay, depending on what cut of meat you eat. Rat is actually surprisingly tasty. Snake is okay, but full of little bones. You might want to try them yourself and not take my word for it.

 

[Sketcher]

Gentiles were never bound in the OT to the kosher restrictions. Therefore, Gentile Christians today are in no sense bound to them at all, Acts 15 made that clear. For Jewish Christians, I suppose it depends upon whether the Jewish tradition I heard about claiming that Messiah will end the requirement to keep kosher is true. Since Jesus is the Messiah, it would make sense if this is true that eating non-kosher foods would be a statement of faith, saying he has come. However, there are others who, out of a desire to show their Jewishness, still keep kosher - and I am fine with that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

from Black Death - New World Encyclopedia



I am pleased to see that some here will walk their own opposition to God's Word in Lev 11 right off the cliff - right out to the point of arguing for rat sandwiches as a "Benefit" of the Gospel.

Meanwhile the actual Bible makes no such claim about the Gospel AND history shows the "lesson learned" where the rat-sandwich group can be compared to the non-rat-eating population in Europe during the black death event in Europe.

Jewish proscriptions demanded regular washing.

In the late middle ages regular bathing simply didn't exist, there were monarchs who prided themselves in having only bathed once or twice in their entire life. Why the stigma against bathing? Because when you went into the cold river in the middle of winter, people found themselves with fevers, getting sick, and dying. So, "obviously", the problem was bathing.

Jewish religious proscriptions did mean that Jewish communities tended to have better hygiene. By the way, the Jewish proscription to regular, ritual hand washing was part of this (c.f. Mark ch. 7).

That doesn't translate to Christians having to abide by Jewish dietary or purification laws. If this is the argument you want to make then not only should Christians observe all 613 commandments of Torah, but Christians should be entirely halachically observant, and that means all of the stipulations, traditions, and pronouncements of the oral traditions (Mishnah) and rabbinical commentaries (Gemara), as well as other Tannaim sources which comprise the great wealth of Jewish religious literature.

An honest person would suggest that the Christian should go all the way, rather than only part way in pretending to be Jewish. But a faithful Christian wouldn't suggest either; but would instead confess that God has called all people, both Jew and Gentile, together as one people in Christ, not under the pronouncements and statutes of the ancient covenant He made with the people at Mt Horeb, but the fullness of it as manifest and made real in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord; and that whether one is circumcised or uncircumcised is nothing--Christ is everything. Kashrut and tereifa are nothing--Christ is everything. New moons, sabbaths, and holy days are nothing; it is Christ who is the substance, they are but shadows and types.

A faithful Christian would confess the Christ, and not seek to set upon their brother a yoke of men and human tradition over and against the liberty that is in Jesus as the Judaizers, Legalists, and Moralists do to this very day.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bible2+]

BobRyan said in post #409:

Nothing in Hebrews 7 says that eating rats is now ok.

Note that just as the Levitical priesthood wasn't brought into the New Covenant, neither was Leviticus 11.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

BobRyan said in post #409:

In fact in Luke 24:27 the Gospel is preached "from all of scripture" that was in fact specifically the "OT".
"And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." Luke 24:27.

The keywords there are the parts of the OT "concerning Himself", just as later in the chapter:

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

BobRyan said in post #409:

And then of course we have Christ saying that the Law cannot be downsized/deleted

Not until the Cross:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby . . .

BobRyan said in post #409:

James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Christians fulfill the spirit of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law by loving others (James 2:8, Romans 13:8-10, Matthew 7:12). They are not to keep the letter of that law (Romans 7:6), but keep the New Covenant "law of liberty" (James 2:12-13; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 4:21-31).

 

[BobRyan]

I was surprised to see this ancient thread resurrected. I enjoyed an excellent breakfast of sausage and eggs and an excellent dinner of pork steak

And this is exactly how many people resolve Bible questions on doctrine.

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[BobRyan]

Note that just as the Levitical priesthood wasn't brought into the New Covenant, neither was Leviticus 11.

Interesting speculation. You have free will you are free to speculate that.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Is about the change of the Law regarding the Preisthood.

Heb 7
5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; 6 but he whose genealogy is not derived from them received tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. .

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

Heb 8
4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;

"the Law" in Hebrews 7 and 8 is about the Law of the priesthood. Paul is not saying that the Law against taking God's name in vain was "deleted" or 'changed so it is now ok to take God's name in vain".

Details matter in exegesis.

 

[BobRyan]

Nor was Christ's message after the cross "Forget the Bible I will be making up new things" -- In fact in Luke 24:27 the Gospel is preached "from all of scripture" that was in fact specifically the "OT".
"And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself." Luke 24:27.

And then of course we have Christ saying that the Law cannot be downsized/deleted

Mark 7
6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

James 2
10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

What is more Eph 6:2 reminds us that the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" in that still-valid still-binding set of "Ten Commandments"

What is more - in Matt 22 Christ reminds us that the Mosaic law contains the greatest commandments and they too are still binding - though they are not found in the TEN.
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself."

And Isaiah 66 tells us that at the end of the world those who eat mice - are to be judged.

Christians fulfill the spirit of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law by loving others (James 2:8, Romans 13:8-10, Matthew 7:12).

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" is Mosaic LAw affirmed by Christ in Matt 22 as not deleting the rest of the Law - but rather upholding it with firm foundation.

Same with Deut 6:5

As already stated in the post above

What is more - in Matt 22 Christ reminds us that the Mosaic law contains the greatest commandments and they too are still binding - though they are not found in the TEN.
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself."

And the NEW Covenant is in the OLD testament without deleting the Commandments of God - as we see in Jer 31:31-33 rather the NEW Covenant says "I will write My LAWs on their heart and mind".

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Jewish proscriptions demanded regular washing.

In the late middle ages regular bathing simply didn't exist,

The Bible says not to eat rats.

The Bible is the Word of God - according to Christ in Mark 7:6-13.

This is the easy part.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Bible says not to eat rats.

The Bible is the Word of God - according to Christ in Mark 7:6-13.

This is the easy part.

The Bible says not to wear mixed fabrics or shave the sides of your beard. I'll take you seriously once you can confirm for me that you obey, or at least try and obey, all 613 mitzvot in the Torah.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible says not to eat rats.
The Bible is the Word of God - according to Christ in Mark 7:6-13.
This is the easy part.

The Bible says not to wear mixed fabrics or shave the sides of your beard. I'll take you seriously once you can confirm for me that you obey,

Take the Bible seriously.

The Bible says not to take God's name in vain - is it your argument that until we stop wearing wool and linen blends (which many people don't do anyway) - that we are free to take God's name in vain??

 

[bbbbbbb]

Take the Bible seriously.

The Bible says not to take God's name in vain - is it your argument that until we stop wearing wool and linen blends (which many people don't do anyway) - that we are free to take God's name in vain??

Interesting point. Are we free to neglect God's holy sabbatical year and His holy year of Jubilee?