Are catholics different from "Christians"?

[keeki]

I know that Catholism (sp) is a branch of Christianity, but I don't really get it...they believe in purgatory and stuff..so are they still Christian?

 

[Bruce S]

They are, but they have a few added "bells and whistles" that other Christians think make them less so, and some really fundamentalists think they are not any longer. But then, when you consider that EVERY Christian was a Catholic or Orthodox until Martin Luther got kicking it is really funny how they suddenly became NOT Christian all of a sudden.

What the Catholic Church is mostly guilty of is grafting Kings and Nobility onto religion, and over the years picking up some baggage from the pagans they were trying to convert.

But all in all, they are just as Christian as anyone, just a more elaborate version with some appendages that might need some simplification. Even they are always looking into some of these things, and over time, Catholics move a little more towards less medevial thinking...

Spoken by a guy that lived in both camps, me.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The Catholic (and Orthodox) churches consider the Bible to be a part of the received Tradition. Other teachings that are part of the tradition but not part of the Bible are therefore accepted, whilst these things are rejected by "Scripture Only" Protestants.

Of course, as an Anglican I straddle the fence. The Bible is the most important part of the Tradition. Nothing that is required to be believed is extra-Biblical, but that doesn't mean that extra-Biblical teachings are false.

I find my Eucharistic theology gradually getting higher as the years go by.

 

[Philip]

They are, but they have a few added "bells and whistles" that other Christians think make them less so,

This is the Protestant view. The Orthodox and Catholic view is that Protestants have removed the so-called "bells and whistles".

But all in all, they are just as Christian as anyone, just a more elaborate version with some appendages that might need some simplification.

Again, from the EO/RC perspective, our is faith not "more elaboarte...with some appendages that might need some simplification." We believe that Protestants are missing part of the revelation of God.

 

[Ben Reid]

I know that Catholism (sp) is a branch of Christianity, but I don't really get it...they believe in purgatory and stuff..so are they still Christian?

What is your understanding of what a Christian is? If it is simply one who believes that Christ is the clearest revelation of God, then yes, of course they are.

And I think purgatory is quite a reasonable view -- I just believe it may apply to everyone.

 

[Theresa]

It all depends on who you ask.

But the funny thing is, if you ask a Catholic if a Protestant is Christian the answer you will get is "of course."

A Christian, to me at least, is someone who believes in the Trinity, the Incarnation of Christ, and the infallibility/inspiration of the Bible.

Which would then make Mormons and JWs non-Christians.

But there were only Catholics and Orthodox Catholic before the Reformation in the 1500's so then, the answer is obviously, Yes.

 

[Serapha]

I know that Catholism (sp) is a branch of Christianity, but I don't really get it...they believe in purgatory and stuff..so are they still Christian?

Hello keeki,


While the other postings would indicate that there was nothing before the Catholic Church existed, that would be in error, for there has always been a thread of Protestanism thoughout the church history which the Roman Church persistently persecuted and attempted to destroy.





However, to answer your question, Christianity is the religion that believes that Jesus Christ pre-existed in heaven as the Word, became incarnate as Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and ascended again to the Father to be the eternal Living Word. Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, in that, while the Jew are still awaiting their Messiah, Christians believe Jesus to be the Messiah, the Christ.


Christians believe in the redemptive power of the blood of Christ, that Christ died for the sins of the world, that Christ died a physical death and was resurrected from the dead, victorious over death, sin and the grave to bring eternal life to all who believed.



Christians believe that the Old Testament existed as "The Scriptures", and that the New Testament is "The Christian Scriptures", both inspired by God and given as direction for the believer. Christianity teaches concerning the development of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as our mediator to the Father as the completion of the plan of salvation which began in Genesis and carries through the entire Bible until Revelation. The Doctrine of the Trinity is associated with Christian teachings.


Catholicism believes all of above as do the mainstream Protestant denominations.

~malaka~

 

[Oblio]

While the other postings would indicate that there was nothing before the Catholic Church existed, that would be in error, for there has always been a thread of Protestanism thoughout the church history which the Roman Church persistently persecuted and attempted to destroy.

You of course have historical evidence that such a Protestant sect existed. And of course the One Holy Apostolic Church (pre-Schism) also persecuted this sect. I would be interested in reading their writings so I may learn of this 'Church' that existed for 2000 years outside of Apostolic Christianity.

 

[Serapha]

You of course have historical evidence that such a Protestant sect existed. And of course the One Holy Apostolic Church (pre-Schism) also persecuted this sect. I would be interested in reading their writings so I may learn of this 'Church' that existed for 2000 years outside of Apostolic Christianity.

Oblio,

If you have a question outside the realm of this posting, then post a new thread. This thread isn't about denominations outside Catholicism.


~malaka~

 

[Oblio]

You posted this:

While the other postings would indicate that there was nothing before the Catholic Church existed, that would be in error, for there has always been a thread of Protestanism thoughout the church history which the Roman Church persistently persecuted and attempted to destroy.

Which is a historical falsehood, unless you can back it up with facts. I am not asking a question, I am calling you on your revisionist history.

 

[Serapha]

You posted this:



Which is a historical falsehood, unless you can back it up with facts. I am not asking a question, I am calling you on your revisionist history.

As a Bapist, I should inform you that Baptists are not reformationists, nor protestors of the Catholic church, but have existed since the first century.

Now... retract your "historical falsehood" accusation... for you already know the history of the Baptist church, you know how Catholicism sought to destroy every belief contrary to their teachings.... and you know that history speaks for itself.


So... back that bulldozer up.


~malaka~

 

[Theresa]

Sorry, you are the one that must bear the burden of evidence. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that but never, not once in my three years of study has anybody backed it up with anything other than opinion.

Truly, how are we to know that real Christians, Baptists, existed before the Reformation if they didn't write anything, they didn't show up in the history books, etc, etc.? Did you have an apparition that says that they did?

The Baptists are from the Anabaptist movement that broke off of the Reformation.

Truly, Catholics persecuted them so they didn't leave any evidence is simply not good enough. Catholics themselves have always been persecuted and yet, Ignatius of Antioch and St. Clement of Rome left some very tangible evidence.

 

[Oblio]

Now... retract your "historical falsehood" accusation... for you already know the history of the Baptist church, you know how Catholicism sought to destroy every belief contrary to their teachings.... and you know that history speaks for itself.

Can you show us history of the Baptists earlier than the 16th century Waldensians. And I don't think you really want to lay claim to their doctrines.

 

[Serapha]

Can you show us history of the Baptists earlier than the 16th century Waldensians. And I don't think you really want to lay claim to their doctrines.

Since you are a moderator, I guess you can change the subject of the posting... so ... let's begin with the Waldensains.... for that takes it back before the reformation... doesn't it?


The Waldensian churches were churches of the mountains of northern Italy and France. They were descended from the early movements of the Albigensians, Arnoldists and Paulicians and existed from the end of the 10th century to the 18th century.

These "baptists" were but one of the churches which the RCC persecuted throughout history as heretics. The Waldensian churches had strong baptist teachings, were strong in evangelism and in spreading the Bible in native languages. They believed the Bible was the only rule of faith and practice.



~malaka~

 

[Oblio]

Since you are a moderator, I guess you can change the subject of the posting...

Let's be clear on who changed the subject by making a claim outside historical Christianity

And moderators have to follow the same rules as every poster. If you feel I have not done so, I invite you to use the Report feature.

 

[Serapha]

Sorry, you are the one that must bear the burden of evidence. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that but never, not once in my three years of study has anybody backed it up with anything other than opinion.

Truly, how are we to know that real Christians, Baptists, existed before the Reformation if they didn't write anything, they didn't show up in the history books, etc, etc.? Did you have an apparition that says that they did?

The Baptists are from the Anabaptist movement that broke off of the Reformation.

Truly, Catholics persecuted them so they didn't leave any evidence is simply not good enough. Catholics themselves have always been persecuted and yet, Ignatius of Antioch and St. Clement of Rome left some very tangible evidence.

I am sorry that in your three years of study you have failed to do a search of "baptist history". You may do that now and be enlightened.

There is a copy of "A History of the Baptists" by John T. Christian online if you sincerly are seeking the truth.

http://www.pbministries.org/History/John T. Christian/vol1/history_of_the_baptist_vol1.htm

Happy reading.

~malaka~

 

[Oblio]

Is this another Trail of Blood story ?

 

[Oblio]

What is going outside the rules (by several of us, myself included) is debating outside a forum meant for that purpose.

 

[Serapha]

Is this another Trail of Blood story ?

Well, first of all,

I noted that you didn't address the history provided which preceeded the reformation. Now.. back up and address the issue


No "red herrings", please.

I didn't start this discussion, the first paragraph of my posting was made after reading those comments that were previously posted on this thread which were, indeed, incomplete in their content.

If this is going to be a "prove this, prove that" thread, then don't start out by diverting from the postings.

One issue at a time, please.


~malaka~

 

[Serapha]

Can you show us history of the Baptists earlier than the 16th century Waldensians. And I don't think you really want to lay claim to their doctrines.

let's begin with the Waldensains.... for that takes it back before the reformation... doesn't it?


The Waldensian churches were churches of the mountains of northern Italy and France. They were descended from the early movements of the Albigensians, Arnoldists and Paulicians and existed from the end of the 10th century to the 18th century.

These "baptists" were but one of the churches which the RCC persecuted throughout history as heretics. The Waldensian churches had strong baptist teachings, were strong in evangelism and in spreading the Bible in native languages. They believed the Bible was the only rule of faith and practice.



~malaka~