Are babies sinners?

[.Iona.]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Are babies active sinners? No. There is also a difference between Original Guilt and Original Sin. I don't affirm Original Guilt.

 

[.Iona.]

Are babies active sinners? No. There is also a difference between Original Guilt and Original Sin. I don't affirm Original Guilt.

Not active? But still sinners?

What is your difference between them?

 

[Walter Kovacs]

Not active? But still sinners?

Not active sinners, born bent towards it. It takes an active will to consciously sin, and so far I've never seen a baby do that. Jesus wouldn't tell us to become like children if they were active sinners. Unless you call the whole waking up every hour, crying, spitting up, etc sin. I imagine most new mothers do.

What is your difference between them?

Original Guilt= I am guilty of Adam's sin. I do not believe this.

Original Sin= sin entered into humanity, and while we are not specifically guilty of Adam's sin, sin still permeates us like a disease, and humanity is infected with it, and we are bent towards sin. The question you ask is a little like; If a man is rich and then loses it all, why are his children born poor?

 

[bling]

No! We sin like Adam and Eve sinned when we become mature adults. Until we sin we are in a save condition not needing to be saved.

 

[salida]

Info. on why children go to heaven-


About children going to heaven
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2255

 

[NNSV]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

It is not so much original sin so much as it is carnality. We are carnal - we tend to follow our own lusts and desires. When God created Adam (not only Christ was a son of God, Adam was briefly a son of God), Adam was perfect and deserved the title of Son of God. As a Son of God, one is naturally holy and above carnality. When Adam as a son of God decided to rebel against Him and engage the serpent, he officially lost his designation of son of God, and just became a lowly son of man. When Adam was a son of God, he was full of brightness and respected of all the animals of the field. We were supposed to be divine sparks from God that watched over the planet and everything in it. When Adam sinned, we became as animals, susceptible to carnality. Even more so than animals, because satan beguiled us with the curse of knowledge of good and evil.

Another sneaky satanic aspect to sin is that Adam and Eve didn't know sinning meant abdicating their holy dominion of earth to satan. When Adam and even sinned, they gave up the God-given dominion of earth, and now satan rules [the minds and spirit of most of] the earth. Therefore, since we are as animals now (a measly son of man as opposed to son of God), we are susceptible to the seduction of sin.

So, the purpose of the state of man serves several purposes. A few of I can think of off the top of my head are to show God's love for us as our Father (mainly through the sacrifice of Christ), to show us how ugly sin is so that we wont want to do it ever again, and to separate those that love Him from those that hate Him, or could care less about Him. God doesn't want another Lucifer in His family.

Babies are probably the most pure form of human. Babies (unless you are just an evil vessel from the beginning) are not accountable for their actions. In fact, there is such a thing called the Age of Accountability around Bah Mitzvah age, possibly a bit younger than teen age. Every single sin, even white lies, hurt someone somehow. At the base, it destroys you spiritually, as God is holy and cannot tolerate anything unholy in His presence. To me, God is good because there is nothing that says God has to do anything. Gods don't have to do anything, and do not owe their creation anything. When we sin, we rebel against the king of the whole universe.

If you rebelled against a Triad Gang Boss, or a Mob Boss, do you think they would send their only begotten (of man) son to die for your rebellion in your place? Some people consider the Triads godly in their own right, yet we rebel against the most High God and expect something positive.


God is naturally letting the result of our folly evolve, whilst especially protecting and watching over people that love Him. This protection does not mean perfect health, wealth, etc. It means no one or nothing can overcome you, not even death. God intervenes occasionally to show give signs, provide healing, or to alleviate His children pain. But this isn't owed to us, and frankly He expects us to handle a lot of things by ourselves, with the wisdom He gives us.

 

[drich0150]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

We tend to look at all sin as being inherently evil. Sin in of itself is not Evil. Sin is what the gift of "Free Will" looks like when we practice it. Not all sin is Evil but all Evil is sin. Babies are born with the ability to choose a will outside of the expressed will of God. but this does not mean they do while being born.

Being born to sin does not mean we are born in sin, it means we have been born with the ability to choose sin/to choose a will that is not of God.

 

[elman]

We tend to look at all sin as being inherently evil. Sin in of itself is not Evil. Sin is what the gift of "Free Will" looks like when we practice it. Not all sin is Evil but all Evil is sin. Babies are born with the ability to choose a will outside of the expressed will of God. but this does not mean they do while being born.

Being born to sin does not mean we are born in sin, it means we have been born with the ability to choose sin/to choose a will that is not of God.

Sin is only what the gift of free will looks like when we practice it, when we do not chose to practice love with our free will. Sin is always evil and evil is always sin and both are about being unloving to others. The rest of your comment I agree with.

 

[solarwave]

The only way I can understand original sin is for it to be the innate tendancy in humans due to biology to 'sin' and the society we live in tempting us to do evil.

 

[elopez]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

I don't think any Christian believes babies actually commit personal sins rather that perhaps some Catholics and Augustinians believe they are held accountable for the original sin of Adam and thus damned less they get baptized. I can see why you would have hostility towards the idea that we as infants are held accountable for Adam's sin since it does have disastrous conclusions. This is is why as another poster explained this view ought to be rejected, but this doesn't preclude the notion of original sin itself since indeed it is that Adam still sinned.

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

Original sin can be looked at in two ways. The most cardinal way original sin can be defined is the first sin Adam and Eve committed in the Garden of Eden. The second way to look at it is the effect, if any, the original sin has. The second sense is the sense I assume you are referring to. We can say that we are affected by the Fall of Adam but not held accountable for the Fall. So being affected by original sin does not automatically mean we are held liable for the sin itself, just that it does indeed some way affect us. So the question is does original sin affect us, and if so, how?

Romans 5:12 states, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned." So we can positively affirm that Adam's original sin has affected mankind, the question now is how. From the verse it says two things have been brought onto all of man. The first is sin itself and the other physical death. Since death is the consequence of sin (also in the Garden) then death cannot be identical to sin and so physical death cannot be the only thing as to result from the original sin of Adam. Both sin and death have affected mankind as a result from the Fall.

We've said that accountability cannot result from the Fall, but now it should be made apparent because it's just not in scripture. The Bible actually speaks out against a son being held responsible for his fathers sin unless the son begins to repeat the same sins of the father. So this sin that results from Adam's original sin is different from the personal sin one would commit which would warrant moral liability. This sin since it affects mankind can only affect mankind in one way possible, and that is through natural heredity. So this sin is contracted and not committed, which is mainly why we cannot be held responsible for it. This sin is brought about conceptually so it is something inherit in everybody, just to varying degrees.

I say varying degrees because the inherit born sin nature is not evil or sinful itself, but can become evil and sinful in due time. It is the 'route' to sin, so to speak. Thus, an infant is not "full of sin." This is not how original sin should be viewed if it is going to be taken up. An infant could become full of sin when is able to understand what sin is and that he is committing it, in which case he wouldn't be an infant anymore. An infant definitely is not originally innocent as Adam and Eve were created, but they are by no means evil or sinful.

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

I don't know if there is a reason for original sin, just that it is something that affects mankind and has roots with the first couple's disobedience.

God does not presently create people. Being that the body is derived by natural hereditary it follows that so too is the soul, since indeed both the body and soul are in unity. Our souls are derived from our parents just as our natural body is, which implies that only first man's soul was directly created by God and that no subsequent souls or persons are created in a similar fashion.

 

[razeontherock]

The only way I can understand original sin is for it to be the innate tendancy in humans due to biology to 'sin' and the society we live in tempting us to do evil.

I would say the topic under discussion isn't so related to biology, but is more of a Spiritual nature. for example, do children need to be taught how to throw temper tantrums or curse? They seem to pick that up readily. Now, just try teaching them how to speak properly, and have patience ....

 

[.Iona.]

Why does God allow, or why did he decide that every person born should have original sin?! That is like he is just expecting us to fail, and taking away any choice we might have - because he created us with sin.

 

[bling]

Why does God allow, or why did he decide that every person born should have original sin?! That is like he is just expecting us to fail, and taking away any choice we might have - because he created us with sin.

Sin is not the problem.

(unforgiven sin can be a big problem.)

Sin has a purpose (the same as satan, tragedies and hell have a purpose.)

We are not born with sin, but all mature adult humans will sin.

Physical death is not bad; but is the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

 

[razeontherock]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

I think this is one area where the Western Churches have gotten it wrong, and your EO background is at least closer to the Truth (if not right 100%)

 

[elman]

I think this is one area where the Western Churches have gotten it wrong, and your EO background is at least closer to the Truth (if not right 100%)

I agree. I think original sin is a man made idea, not from God.

 

[razeontherock]

The only way I can understand original sin is for it to be the innate tendancy in humans due to biology to 'sin' and the society we live in tempting us to do evil.

Society tempting us = what the Bible calls "the world." Check.

Original sin being innate biology overlooks the fact that Jesus lived a sinless life!

 

[elopez]

Society tempting us = what the Bible calls "the world." Check.

Original sin being innate biology overlooks the fact that Jesus lived a sinless life!

Though Jesus was not born in any biological manner except for the fact that Mary was impregnated with him. Other than that Christ was incarnated, not made biologically with a mother and father.

 

[Sabbath-Keeper777]

The one thing a baby knows how to do when it's born is Cry, for the soul has been born into a dark world of sorrow.

 

[Zebra1552]

I know not all Christians believe this, but for those that do - why?

Why would God allow everyone else to be affected by Original sin, and hold us accountable for something we can do nothing about? And, why would God say that a baby who has done nothing but breath and cry be full of sin?

What is the purpose of original sin? Why did God create people to be full of sin?

First off, we don't know if babies are considered sinners going to hell. We're not told. Secondly, God didn't create people to be full of sin. They messed up and made it that way. Problem solved.