ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?

LoveGodsWord

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Amen brother! Sadly, certain people insist on remaining on the old covenant plantation and the end result of their mixture of law and grace is a perverted gospel of salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

All of God's commandments are repeated in God's new covenant as shown on page one of this OP (scripture support here). All of God's 10 commandments are binding on Christians in the new covenant as they are the standard of good and evil, sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. It is the new covenant scriptures that tell us that the purpose of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of what sin when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-12. God's 4th commandments is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. As shown through the scriptures elsewhere Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word. There is no more Jewish believe and Gentile believers in the new covenant Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those of the flesh but of the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word *Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise. Now what is it in the scriptures shared with you here that you do not believe?

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DamianWarS

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Nowhere in scriptures is there any hint that God's people before MOSES did not know about of keep God's Sabbath or any one of Gods’ 10 commandments as already shown in Genesis 26:5 and Exodus 16.
Exodus 16 is not the 10 commandments but it is still mosaic law. In Exodus 16 people had to be instructed how to keep law like they had no knowledge of it themself and some people still didn't listen. This doesn't show me an innate understanding of law it shows me receiving instruction they've never heard before.

Genesis speaks of law and law is the word Torah in Hebrew but Torah as in the pentateuch as and Torah as law are different things. Abraham given or following Torah should not mean he was given the pentateuch and create some sort of circular logic problem. So we cannot assume all uses of law mean all the pentateuch as you would have it mean. Law in this cases is used for what was given to Abraham like Adam and Eve were given a form of law (Torah) in the garden but it was a law unique to them not the same as Moses gave. All we can assume is how Abraham demonstrates obedience toward God and he demonstrates no knowledge of sabbath. Rom 2 shows us that it was not through law that Abraham was righteousness but through faith (v3), even before law (11). Rom 2 certainly shows is a period of before law but you seem to be so determined to keep your views that you would bend scripture so that it would fit. Genesis does not support mosaic law nor does it have one instance of sabbath law.
 
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DamianWarS

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Evidence of our faith is in word and action according to the scriptures James 2:18-26. If we are not keeping God's 4th commandment then your breaking it. Right? So are you claiming now your keep God's 4th commandments? Your words have not been misrepresented. You do not keep God's 4th commandment Sabbath and have come to this forum to teach against it right? Jesus tells us we shall know them by their fruits in Matthew 7:15-16 and John tells us how we can know if we know God or not in 1 John 2:3-4. Now how have you been misrepresented when I have only shared Gods' Word with you? God's Word is not slander it is God's Word not mine and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4

You have no idea what I do or do not do on sabbath so please don't accuse me of something you have no knowledge of. You have misrepresented me as soon as you accuse me of claiming the law is abolished which I do not, nor have I ever professed. You liberally conflate NT use of commandments inclusive the 4th commandment but refuse to talk about how you've made this connection and refuse to accept anything else but the definition you give it and so these conversations are not productive as there comes a point where you stop contributing and engaging. We've reached that point here.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Exodus 16 is not the 10 commandments but it is still mosaic law. In Exodus 16 people had to be instructed how to keep law like they had no knowledge of it themself and some people still didn't listen. This doesn't show me an innate understanding of law it shows me receiving instruction they've never heard before.

Genesis speaks of law and law is the word Torah in Hebrew but Torah as in the pentateuch as and Torah as law are different things. Abraham given or following Torah should not mean he was given the pentateuch and create some sort of circular logic problem. So we cannot assume all uses of law mean all the pentateuch as you would have it mean. Law in this cases is used for what was given to Abraham like Adam and Eve were given a form of law (Torah) in the garden but it was a law unique to them not the same as Moses gave. All we can assume is how Abraham demonstrates obedience toward God and he demonstrates no knowledge of sabbath. Rom 2 shows us that it was not through law that Abraham was righteousness but through faith (v3), even before law (11). Rom 2 certainly shows is a period of before law but you seem to be so determined to keep your views that you would bend scripture so that it would fit. Genesis does not support mosaic law nor does it have one instance of sabbath law.

Not really dear friend. You have your facts wrong. The Mosaic book of the law was not completed until after Exodus 20 where God gave the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 [24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, [25]That Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26], Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Hope this is helpful
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You have no idea what I do or do not do on sabbath so please don't accuse me of something you have no knowledge of. You have misrepresented me as soon as you accuse me of claiming the law is abolished which I do not, nor have I ever professed. You liberally conflate NT use of commandments inclusive the 4th commandment but refuse to talk about how you've made this connection and refuse to accept anything else but the definition you give it and so these conversations are not productive as there comes a point where you stop contributing and engaging. We've reached that point here.
I am sorry we will have to agree to disagree dear friend. I believe you have been provided God's Word which is not mine but God's showing your claims here are not true. The only definitions I have provided here are the ones that scripture give. They therefore are not my definitions but God's and we should believe them. You have also been provided scripture that show the connections between the Sabbath and creation and why the Sabbath was made for all mankind through the scriptures shared with you. So claiming that I have not made these connections is simply not true at all. They of course are God's Words not mine. For me I choose to believe what God says. You are of course free to believe as you wish. I have refused nothing except to share the scriptures with you yet it seems you are struggling to respond to what has been shared with you, which is ok. I pray our discussion will give you something to think and pray about. I am happy to continue a discussion with you Damian if you want a friendly one and your opened to the scriptures shared with you.
 
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DamianWarS

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Not really dear friend. You have your facts wrong. The Mosaic book of the law was not completed until after Exodus 20 gave the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 [24] And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, [25]That Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, [26], Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Hope this is helpful
However you label it, instruction is imposed after it is given not before. Ex 16 shows instruction given not instruction that has been around since creation.
 
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DamianWarS

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I am sorry we will have to agree to disagree dear friend. You have been provided God's Word which is not mine but God's showing your claims here are not true. The only definitions I have provided here are the ones that scriptures give. They therefore are not my definitions but God's and we should believe them. For me I choose to believe what God says. You are of course free to believe as you wish. I have refused nothing except to share the scriptures with you yet you refuse to address them. Telling isn't it.
If that's your closing remarks then we will have to part as you seem to desire to disengage defaulting back to your broken record sentiments.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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However you label it, instruction is imposed after it is given not before. Ex 16 shows instruction given not instruction that has been around since creation.

I did not label it you did. You claimed that Exodus 16 was Mosaic law. The Mosaic book of the law was not made and completed until well after God gave the 10 commandments after Exodus 20 so your claim earlier was wrong as shown through the scriptures. You were provided scripture that stated this in Deuteronomy 31:24-26. They are God's Words not mine. Do you not believe them, because if you do these scriptures disagree with your earlier claims don't they?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If that's your closing remarks then we will have to part as you seem to desire to disengage defaulting back to your broken record sentiments.
Well as posted earlier. I was still editing my post before you responded. That was not a closing statement. As posted earlier, I am happy to have a friendly discussion but then we both need to be open to what the scripture say and teach for that to happen. I am game if you are. Are you opened to have a friendly discussion supported by the scriptures or not? If your not then I agree there is no point in us continuing as we will never be in agreement because to me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *1 John 2:3-4
 
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DamianWarS

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I did not label it you did. You claimed that Exodus 16 was Mosaic law. The Mosaic book of the law was not made and completed until well after God gave the 10 commandments after Exodus 20 so your claim earlier was wrong as shown through the scriptures. You were provided scripture that stated this in Deuteronomy 31:24-26. They are God's Words not mine. Do you not believe them, because if you do these scriptures disagree with your earlier claims don't they?
I am refering to the label that you are giving it whatever that is. I am content with calling in mosaic law as it is law given to Moses but that is an issue of symentics and I'm not interested in arguing symentics. The point is still Ex 16 does not establish sabbath law since creation, it establishes sabbath law since Ex 16. It would more convincing to find for sabbath law established in Genesis rather than Exodus. I see sabbath law established in Ex 16 and 20 as not the same but anologous events that have the same goal.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am refering to the label that you are giving it whatever that is. I am content with calling in mosaic law as it is law given to Moses but that is an issue of symentics and I'm not interested in arguing symentics. The point is still Ex 16 does not establish sabbath law since creation, it establishes sabbath law since Ex 16. It would more convincing to find for sabbath law established in Genesis rather than Exodus. I see sabbath law established in Ex 16 and 20 as not the same but anologous events that have the same goal.
I did not give it any label dear friend I only provided scripture and it is the scriptures alone that are Gods' Word not my words that show that the Sabbath was already known about before Mt Sinai (Exodus 20) in Exodus 16 by God's people and was not from the Mosaic law as the Mosaic law had not been written yet until after God gave the 10 commandments post Exodus 20 as shown in the scriptures from Deuteronomy 31:24-26. All of which are Gods' Word not my words that disagree with your words that Exodus 16 was Mosiac law. Exodus 16 was not Mosaic law as Moses had not yet written the book of the law. According to the scriptures Exodus 16 is only further evidence that before the written Word of God was the spoken Word of God and God's people had God's laws and knew about them before Mt Sinai. Now these are God's Words not my words. All you have done here is to deny God's Word with your words that are not God's but yours. For me only God's Word is true according to the scripture *Romans 3:4 and you have not provided any. A detailed scripture response to this has been provided in post # 291 linked showing God's people had God's law and and knew what sin was through the spoken Word of God inclusive of the Sabbath back in Genesis 2:1-3 which you seem to have just ignored proving your argument of silence is not biblical.
 
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DamianWarS

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you seem to have just ignored proving your argument of silence is not biblical.
Sabbath law explicitly starts at Moses. How exactly is this an argument of silence? Are we to also say the temple existed in Genesis since it too has a clear start and also is not mentioned in Genesis? The thing with saying it is an argument of silence means you are declaring yourself you're using an argument of silence to propagate sabbath law where there is no mention of it. So if an argument of silence as you call it should not be responsibly used the why are you using it? Silence itself is not good enough and you need support outside the silence.

I however I'm not depending on silence saying something was there before it was there. Sabbath law has a clear start which happens to be 2500 years after the 7th day of creation so I am affirming scripture and saying it indeed started when it said it started. It's not complicated and it is the natural understanding of the text.
 
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Danthemailman

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Sabbath law explicitly starts at Moses. How exactly is this an argument of silence? Are we to also say the temple existed in Genesis since it too has a clear start and also is not mentioned in Genesis? The thing with saying it is an argument of silence means you are declaring yourself you're using an argument of silence to propagate sabbath law where there is no mention of it. So if an argument of silence as you call it should not be responsibly used the why are you using it? Silence itself is not good enough and you need support outside the silence.

I however I'm not depending on silence saying something was there before it was there. Sabbath law has a clear start which happens to be 2500 years after the 7th day of creation so I am affirming scripture and saying it indeed started when it said it started. It's not complicated and it is the natural understanding of the text.
Amen! Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of a sabbath day law before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.* The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning."
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The commandment is given below. Whatever you do, never confuse the true commandment with the law.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

Not coveting the oxen will never save anyone. Yet to obey the commandment to believe in the name of Jesus wins hands down.

Are you obeying the true commandments?
You're missing a few verses you left out.

Right before Jesus stated the greatest commandment He said John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Jesus clearly said He kept His fathers commdmants and asked us to as well. Jesus summarized His fathers commdmants when asked what are the greatest commandments, and the scripture right before that Jesus said He kept His Fathers commandments and so should we. We find these commandment's in Exodus 20

In Revelations there is a scripture right after 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Revelation 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. (those who break His commdmants)

I pray this helps.
 
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DamianWarS

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Amen! Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of a sabbath day law before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.* The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning."
The noun first appears in Exodus. The verb is where you expect it to be in Genesis 2:2,3. But the practice of keeping Sabbath is absent in Genesis along with its instruction from Adam to Abraham as well as the NT writers that wrote about them, not once is there even a hint of sabbath practice. Of course why should there be? Sabbath law isn't established until Moses so why are we turning over rocks when we know nothing is under them? Sabbath is established from the beginning but Sabbath law is established 2500 years later.

Looking for Sabbath law in Genesis is important if the law is as deep as Sabbath gets. But we do Sabbath an injustice when we only see law and the fact that Sabbath exists outside of and is preexisting to law shows us it's greater than law and it's independent of law. Sabbath is established at creation as rest not law and this tell us the purpose of Sabbath. God's rest is the goal, the law is incomplete in getting that result as it can only give us physical rest but the greater foreshadow is the rest Christ gives. He can give it because it's his to give (he was there when it was made)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sabbath law explicitly starts at Moses. How exactly is this an argument of silence? Are we to also say the temple existed in Genesis since it too has a clear start and also is not mentioned in Genesis? The thing with saying it is an argument of silence means you are declaring yourself you're using an argument of silence to propagate sabbath law where there is no mention of it. So if an argument of silence as you call it should not be responsibly used the why are you using it? Silence itself is not good enough and you need support outside the silence.

I however I'm not depending on silence saying something was there before it was there. Sabbath law has a clear start which happens to be 2500 years after the 7th day of creation so I am affirming scripture and saying it indeed started when it said it started. It's not complicated and it is the natural understanding of the text.

According to the scriptures Sabbath was given to mankind before law as stated by Jesus in Mark 2:27 when he says that the Sabbath was made for mankind. The Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week according to Genesis 2:1-3 before sin when mankind was in perfect harmony with God, before Mosaic law where at the end of creation God blessed the "seventh day" of the creation week and set it aside from all the other days of the week as a Holy day of rest for all mankind. There was no sin, when the Sabbath was made for man, no Mosaic laws, no plan of salvation because mankind had not sinned.

You try and make an argument of silence as explained earlier in a detailed scripture review of sin and law starting from Genesis 2 in post # 291 linked that you simply ignored showing that both God's law and sin were already known to God's people through the "spoken" Word of God (e.g. Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 26:5; Genesis 39:9 etc) before the written law was ever given before Exodus 20 and Mt Sinai.

Nowhere in scriptures is there any hint that God's people before MOSES did not know about or keep God's Sabbath or any one of Gods’ 10 commandments as already shown in Genesis 26:5 and Exodus 16 and elsewhere.

We know that according to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's law and through the law is the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. So in order to know what sin is those who sinned must have a knowledge of what God's law is. Yet we see God's people before Moses knew what sin was according to the scriptures....

God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus says the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20). Jacob knew about sin (breaking God's LAW) before Mt Sinai when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

As time goes by God destroys mankind for evil and sin with a flood as well as Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and the Egyptians with plagues *Genesis 6:5-13; Genesis 13:10-13; 18:20-33; 19:24; Exodus 9:13-14. If there was no knowledge of sin there would be no punishment for it. God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD.

As shown above God's Word (not mine) disagrees with your argument of silence which is simply not an argument at all because the scriptures show that God's people knew Gods' law before the written law at Mt Sinai in Exodus 20 through the "spoken" Word of God as shown through the scriptures here and elsewhere.

.................

Question
for you dear friend. Why does it matter even if you claim Gods' people did not keep God's laws before Exodus 20 (which has already been shown to not be true through the scriptures) when God gave his law at Exodus 20? The fact remains God's law was given and it is the 10 commandments in the new covenant scriptures that give us the knowledge of what sin is today according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11. So your claim here is a mute point.

Now what is it in the scriptures provided here that you disagree with?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Amen! Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of a sabbath day law before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.* The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning."
Argument in silence is not an argument for or against people keeping the Sabbath before Mt Sinai. As shown in Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for mankind before sin and law and before the written Word of God was the "spoken" Word of God. The scriptures show that before Mt Sinai God's people knew and practiced God's laws through the "spoken" Word of God (e.g. Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 26:5; Genesis 39:9 etc). The fact that Gods people knew about the Sabbath before the written law of Moses was given in Exodus 16 is only further proof of this fact that the Sabbath rest was a practice of the Hebrews well before it was made the written Law of God and was given to mankind at creation through Adam and Eve since the beginning of time.
 
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klutedavid

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You're missing a few verses you left.

Right before Jesus stated the greatest commandment He said John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Jesus clearly said he kept His fathers commdmants and asked us to as well. Jesus summarized His fathers commdmants when asked what are the greatest commandments, and the scripture right before that Jesus said He kept His Fathers commandments and so should we. We find these commandment's in Exodus 20

In Revelations there is a scripture right after 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Revelation 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. (those who break His commdmants)

I pray this helps.
In your quotation (Revelation 15), who are the dogs and why are sorcerers included?

I know that Gentiles were referred to as dogs that fed on the crumbs. falling from the master's table.

Since sorcery and witchcraft are not mentioned in the ten commandments why is sorcery mentioned?
 
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safswan

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<--start quote-->
Jesus tells us [Mar 3:3-5] that doing good on the Sabbath keeps the law and doing evil does not keep the law. So this begs the question that our actions on the Sabbath should be prioritized by how good they are rather than how they avoid work as the latter may in fact be to the diservice of others. But this begs another question why not do good every day in every action? I this we find the secret sauce to the gospel.


Thanks for citing the passage you used to form your opinion.The passage you cite says:

Mark 3:
3And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

This is similar to an incident recorded by Matthew.

Mat 12:
9And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

This is part of a longstanding debate about what is allowed on the Sabbath.So in ceasing from your regular labours and having a holy convocation as is instructed it is not wrong to do those things that are aimed at the preservation or enhancement of life,and even that of animals.Jesus here is not advocating to go around and do good on the Sabbath as its primary requirement but is saying that where there are emergencies of the type described in the passages above then these are not inimical to the Sabbath command.



Jesus also does tell us [Mat 11:28-30] to come to him and he will give us rest. Jesus didn't speak English and the word is probably used when he said he will give rest is sabbath (because that's the meaning of the word).<--end quote-->


I have addressed the meaning of the passage you quote above in this thread and another you started on the subject.I am not sure why you said,"the word is probably used when he said he will give rest is sabbath",when you could have easily looked up the word actually used and see that it was not sabbath.

And so this rest does not replace the Sabbath but if you do avail yourself of the same you would be doing good and also observing the Sabbath as was commanded.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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In your quotation (Revelation 15), who are the dogs and why are sorcerers included?

I know that Gentiles were referred to as dogs that fed on the crumbs. falling from the master's table.

Since sorcery and witchcraft are not mentioned in the ten commandments why is sorcery mentioned?
Sure they are, sorcery and witchcraft break commandment #1
 
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