Are all religions nothing but products of evolution?

Jane_the_Bane

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Maybe if you just checked the history of the last seventy years, you will find that this sort of thing is not strictly the domain of religion.

Not exclusively, no.

However, religions have the advantage of delegating potential rewards to the afterlife, and thus avoid any pressure in "delivering the goods".
Secular ideologies that tried to copy religions by cultivating faith and authoritarianism always ended up losing credibility because the paradisical conditions they promised never started to materialize. (Which hasn't stopped some of the more fanatical set from keeping the faith anyway - similar to doomsday cults that hand out specific dates for the end of the world: even if the event doesn't take place, the hardliners still find a way to rationalize it.)
 
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rsduncan

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Not exclusively, no.

However, religions have the advantage of delegating potential rewards to the afterlife, and thus avoid any pressure in "delivering the goods".
Secular ideologies that tried to copy religions by cultivating faith and authoritarianism always ended up losing credibility because the paradisical conditions they promised never started to materialize. (Which hasn't stopped some of the more fanatical set from keeping the faith anyway - similar to doomsday cults that hand out specific dates for the end of the world: even if the event doesn't take place, the hardliners still find a way to rationalize it.)

Now this I can agree with. This is a very well-balanced post...
 
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CryptoLutheran

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I think it's probably safe to say that "religion" evolved. Of course the concept of "religion" is rather complex, so much so that it may be inappropriate to speak of religion in the singular and instead more appropriate to speak of religions, some of which are related to one another through a shared tradition (i.e. the Abrahamic faiths and the Dharmic faiths being examples of religion families) or through synthesis and cultural/ideological exchange.

I don't know that I'd necessarily say that the religions of the world "evolved" in the same sense though, in that each one got its start under different circumstances; and it becomes harder to make an objective statement since it involves concepts such as revelation and mystical experiences which aren't necessarily capable of being analyzed through a wholly objective approach.

As far as the meaning of life goes, I don't think this is really something any person can answer objectively, whether you believe there is a meaning or not or if you create your own meaning comes down to all the complex and nuanced factors that goes into how you perceive the world around you which may or may not be religious.

I believe that our ultimate meaning, as human creatures, is probably best summarized by the Westminster Confession (though I am not of the Reformed tradition); namely to "...to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever." I would argue, further that "glorifying" isn't simply some sort of incessant adulation, but is instead a robust, deep reflecting of God into the world through love and true charity toward others. That is, we glorify God through our obedience to God and our perfect love of our neighbor, through being servants of others, taking care of the poor, being kind to others without condition, being gentle, and in all ways reflecting God as is appropriate of creatures created in imagio Dei, in the image of God.

That meaning, further explained, coming from a Christian perspective is found in Jesus Christ, the Son of God in whom God and man is perfectly reconciled and united. Jesus is the locus of all human and divine interaction, the place where God and man meet, where humanity is made perfect imagio Dei and God reveals Himself to the world. Thus the glorifying and enjoying of God forever is, from a Christian view point, ultimately found in Jesus. I mean, in His person, into which--would probably argue a Christian--we are united by divine grace, through faith, in the Sacraments, et al.

Of course, if one isn't a Christian, the above might at best sound like nonsense and perhaps at worst be perceived as exclusionary, theological arrogance.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Mahammad

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What do you mean looked legit? I'm not suggesting that he wasn't a rabbi.

There are always debates and disagreements within Judaism. We're going to be having our Passover Seder soon and do you know what is in the Haggadah we read? Disagreements over theology. It's part of the religion. There is almost nothing in the religion you can sit down and say "All believe X". Even among the Orthodox, I'm not speaking about the divisions between liberal and all that. If he believes that, fine. Other rabbis believe differently.

He was old with a big beard, he wears the classic black suit, and he's chadd or chabb something(division in orthodoxy). He also follows the teachings of a famous rabbi who started the Jewish trend of wearing these black clothes.
 
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Mahammad

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The sense of honor is in the brain and within the soul. It's a light from God.

You can witness honor is based on the absolute source. It's not something that is not real, it's based on reality. It's true and can be witnessed to be truth.

The marks of the Divine in the soul, are the beautiful qualities that belong to God. They can be witnessed to based on the reality and based on absolute eternal source.

You can witness love where it's due, is a great thing, and it's beautiful and honorable, and that it's based on the absolute eternal.

The signs of God in the soul bear witness to him.

The soul is probably what apes interrupted when they tried to explain the counsious. Philosophy produces both religions and sciences. Physics and Biology find their origins in philosophy. So does religion and so does Allah. It's very simple, science DOES disprove Allah, unless you reject evolution, then you reject science.
 
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rsduncan

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The soul is probably what apes interrupted when they tried to explain the counsious. Philosophy produces both religions and sciences. Physics and Biology find their origins in philosophy. So does religion and so does Allah. It's very simple, science DOES disprove Allah, unless you reject evolution, then you reject science.

I take it then that scientists are infallible...
 
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Mahammad

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Greetings! :)



That's eminently arguable, yes, because religion evolves through the Ages just as everything else does! It's what we call "Progressive Revelation."

However, I reject the implied put-down of "nothing but," please note.

As to the meaning of life, you need to clarify your question: What exactly are you asking?

If you mean "What is our purpose here?" that I can definitely answer! But you may mean something entirely different.

Peace, :)

Bruce


Yes, I don't see any purpose, yet I can make a purpose. I'm not depressed if someone think I am. I'm happy with my life. But I don't see there's any meaning. Like all animals, we need a purpose to desire life. intelligent animals commit suicide when they are depressed, because they are no different, if you have a dog that you raised since childhood then to him you are a sacred God and he will be happy with just being around you. It's something the brain needs so it can function, the good thing, even if you realize reality, there are so many paths in life, that you can make your own.
 
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Mahammad

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Actually, religious belief offers some evolutionary advantages: it alleviates existential fears, strengthens the bond within a community, puts ones specific moral code and cultural customs beyond criticism and so on and so forth.

The beliefs may be factually wrong, but they're nevertheless eminently practical.

We can extract these advantages as a human race without keeping religion. convincing the self is one of the most powerful tools that people generally don't use or even know of. You can get rid of general anxiety and depression, all it takes is self-conviction.

Religion is like the patients in that study who got well because they believed they will get well not because of the drug.
 
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Mahammad

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I think it's probably safe to say that "religion" evolved. Of course the concept of "religion" is rather complex, so much so that it may be inappropriate to speak of religion in the singular and instead more appropriate to speak of religions, some of which are related to one another through a shared tradition (i.e. the Abrahamic faiths and the Dharmic faiths being examples of religion families) or through synthesis and cultural/ideological exchange.

I don't know that I'd necessarily say that the religions of the world "evolved" in the same sense though, in that each one got its start under different circumstances; and it becomes harder to make an objective statement since it involves concepts such as revelation and mystical experiences which aren't necessarily capable of being analyzed through a wholly objective approach.

As far as the meaning of life goes, I don't think this is really something any person can answer objectively, whether you believe there is a meaning or not or if you create your own meaning comes down to all the complex and nuanced factors that goes into how you perceive the world around you which may or may not be religious.

I believe that our ultimate meaning, as human creatures, is probably best summarized by the Westminster Confession (though I am not of the Reformed tradition); namely to "...to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever." I would argue, further that "glorifying" isn't simply some sort of incessant adulation, but is instead a robust, deep reflecting of God into the world through love and true charity toward others. That is, we glorify God through our obedience to God and our perfect love of our neighbor, through being servants of others, taking care of the poor, being kind to others without condition, being gentle, and in all ways reflecting God as is appropriate of creatures created in imagio Dei, in the image of God.

That meaning, further explained, coming from a Christian perspective is found in Jesus Christ, the Son of God in whom God and man is perfectly reconciled and united. Jesus is the locus of all human and divine interaction, the place where God and man meet, where humanity is made perfect imagio Dei and God reveals Himself to the world. Thus the glorifying and enjoying of God forever is, from a Christian view point, ultimately found in Jesus. I mean, in His person, into which--would probably argue a Christian--we are united by divine grace, through faith, in the Sacraments, et al.

Of course, if one isn't a Christian, the above might at best sound like nonsense and perhaps at worst be perceived as exclusionary, theological arrogance.

-CryptoLutheran

What do you mean by mystical experiences?
 
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rsduncan

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I never said that, scientists make mistakes like any living thing, but they also produce a lot of facts. and they are the source of most of our knowledge.

If scientists are fallible then science can be in error, like, for example: the Bohr model of the atom...
 
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Mahammad

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If scientists are fallible then science can be in error, like, for example: the Bohr model of the atom...

I look at science with skepticism too, especially some of today's political/commercial driven "sciences". But scientific facts are based on evidence. Evolution itself is self-evidence.


However, evolution needs to improve and expand because we don't know all about it.
 
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rsduncan

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I look at science with skepticism too, especially some of today's political/commercial driven "sciences". But scientific facts are based on evidence. Evolution itself is self-evidence.


However, evolution needs to improve and expand because we don't know all about it.

I don't discount science. The practical applications which come from the discipline render it worthy of respect.

I favor astronomy, meteorology and cosmology, myself. The recent discoveries in regard to the Milky Way Galaxy's mass and structure are among the topics most interesting to me...
 
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Greg1234

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Religion is just like being hungry, evolution made it so you will strive to survive.
Darwinian evolution did not produce man. Your entire post is merely an appeal to look to the beast for ancestral mentoring.

So can someone please tell me what's the meaning of life?
It depends on the life-giver. The meaning proclaimed by a purposeless primordial soup is "be meaningless".
 
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JJWhite

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The soul is probably what apes interrupted when they tried to explain the counsious. Philosophy produces both religions and sciences. Physics and Biology find their origins in philosophy. So does religion and so does Allah. It's very simple, science DOES disprove Allah, unless you reject evolution, then you reject science.

Can you please explain? Don't understand.
 
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JJWhite

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He was old with a big beard, he wears the classic black suit, and he's chadd or chabb something(division in orthodoxy). He also follows the teachings of a famous rabbi who started the Jewish trend of wearing these black clothes.

Chassidic? Chabad-Lubavitch specifically, maybe? Where? in Canada?
 
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Greg1234

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The soul is probably what apes interrupted when they tried to explain the counsious. Philosophy produces both religions and sciences. Physics and Biology find their origins in philosophy. So does religion and so does Allah. It's very simple, science DOES disprove Allah, unless you reject evolution, then you reject science.

Kudos to you for coming up front and stating the role Darwinian evolution plays in materialism. Most in your kin [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-foot around it just long enough for the religious to believe in it.
 
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rsduncan

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Kudos to you for coming up front and stating the role Darwinian evolution plays in materialism. Most in your kin [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-foot around it just long enough for the religious to believe in it.

Frankly, I don't lend too much credence about what scientists say about the existence or non-existence of G-d. We know so very little about the quantum and molecular universes and we know less and less about these as we draw closer to Planck time. We don't know if quarks are the fundimental units of subatomic particles or not. Theories get postulated, tested, modified, discarded all the time.

The amusing thing about athiests is that they can only believe in things they can see or otherwise detect with the leveraged or unleveraged senses. That means at one time they didn't believe in protons, neutrons and electrons, let alone up, down, strange, charm, top and bottom quarks (and their antiparticles), even though these existed almost to the beginning of the universe. Yet the author of Hebrews, through faith, tells us:

Hebrews 11:3 said:
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

...
 
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b&wpac7

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He was old with a big beard, he wears the classic black suit, and he's chadd or chabb something(division in orthodoxy). He also follows the teachings of a famous rabbi who started the Jewish trend of wearing these black clothes.

I have explained it twice to you. That seems like enough.
 
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BruceDLimber

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[W]e need a purpose to desire life.

No problem! (And thank you for clarifying your question.)

According to the Baha'i scriptures our purpose here is twofold:
  • To acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life, and
  • in aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.
And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about this!

Best! :)

Bruce
 
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