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... Labyrinth ...
Ecumenism is the gateway to apostasy. When you begin to see "christianity" merging with Roman Catholicism, Islam, eastern philosophy, Hinduism, etc., then you know. Oh, btw, we are there! A list of apostate practices permeating the church today; Yoga, Transcendental Meditation, Witchcraft, Labyrinth, health wealth, psychology, and last, but not least...drum roll please... A DEPARTURE FROM THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE!
Rev Randy said:A Church not upholding the Creeds. A Church refusing to preach against sin and warn of the damage sin causes. A church that exclude certain scripture as it goes against their ways. A Church teaching "oneness (denying the Trinity). A Church teaching prosperity (you'll get rich by giving money to the pastor). A Church teaching Law keeping or works as a means to salvation. A Church bashing other denominations or sects out of bigotry and using untruths. A Church causing discord between or among the brethren. A church teaching hatred.
Are there any churches that aren't apostate then?
Laodicea had no compassion for the homeless, hungry or poor, but Christ only rebuked them because He loved them. How, then, are we to exclude any church that falls short of perfection?
Churches convened long before creeds were formed. Churches went without much of the Scriptures in the first century that we have today. Churches had unity with Christ in God long before Trinitarianism even needed to be defines to Arians. The Gentile churches were richly blessed because of their refusal to back down or fall into temptation long before Joel Osteen ever held self-help seminars. The inadequacies of churches in doctrine were not the defining items of Christians, for even Paul praised God that the Gospel was being spread though it was done so in contention with him.
Revelation 12:17 makes it clear who true Christians are: 1) Those who keep the commandments of God (the teachings of Jesus) and hold fast to the testimony of Jesus (in Baptism and in word.)
The rest is just divisive. Jesus sowed in love. When He returns, He should be reaping the manifestation of the seeds of His love: A loving Church.
Rev Randy said:Your misreading me. I am not saying people don't make mistakes. I'm not even saying groups don't make mistakes or fall short together. Groups (congregations) are not the Church but of the Church. The Creed is not a work we do but what we believe. Isn't believing the requirement for salvation?
I agree. The greatest threat to the Church today is a massive underground maze guarded by a minotaur.
-CryptoLutheran
Apart from the obvious: A departure from the orthodoxy of the Creeds, I often feel convinced more and more each day that the religious syncretism that exists in the Religious Right constitutes a pervasive, corrupting cancer in Christianity here in the West. So there's that.
"I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Rev. Billy Graham, Parade, 1981
-CryptoLutheran
I'm sorry, but the far more insidious heresy is the suggestion that "all you need is the Holy Spirit," in exclusion of the Body of Christ. Fellowship in the Body of Christ is not a nice "perk" of Christianity; it's not a luxury or add-on. It is vital and central to the Gospel. Millions of people swallowing the half-truth that the Spirit will individually "guide them into all truth," to the exclusion of the Body, is what has led to the pervasive denominationalism and every-man-for-himself mentality within Protestant Christianity. Individuals don't independently decide what is "right preaching, ordinance, and mission" for them as Christians. We are to submit to the Church as the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
What makes you think that? The Gates of Hell will never prevail against God's Church. (Mt. 16)
A Church not upholding the Creeds. A Church refusing to preach against sin and warn of the damage sin causes. A church that exclude certain scripture as it goes against their ways. A Church teaching "oneness (denying the Trinity). A Church teaching prosperity (you'll get rich by giving money to the pastor). A Church teaching Law keeping or works as a means to salvation. A Church bashing other denominations or sects out of bigotry and using untruths. A Church causing discord between or among the brethren. A church teaching hatred.
Ecumenism is the gateway to apostasy. When you begin to see "christianity" merging with Roman Catholicism, Islam, eastern philosophy, Hinduism, etc., then you know. Oh, btw, we are there! A list of apostate practices permeating the church today; Yoga, Transcendental Meditation, Witchcraft, Labyrinth, health wealth, psychology, and last, but not least...drum roll please... A DEPARTURE FROM THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE!
What do you think are some identifying characteristics of apostate churches? I myself consider churches that allow sexual union outside of marriage between a man and a woman (born that way, not manmade ) as apostate. They have departed the faith IMHO. I do not say all who are in them are apostates, some may in fact be unlearned and perhaps yet teachable, but do not see anyway that leadership who form the doctrine or those in whole hearted agreement with it can be classified any other way. Of course I would hope that God is willing to grant them repentance leading unto life. I am not interested in eternally condemning anyman.
love, JE
What do you think are some identifying characteristics of apostate churches? I myself consider churches that allow sexual union outside of marriage between a man and a woman (born that way, not manmade ) as apostate. They have departed the faith IMHO. I do not say all who are in them are apostates, some may in fact be unlearned and perhaps yet teachable, but do not see anyway that leadership who form the doctrine or those in whole hearted agreement with it can be classified any other way. Of course I would hope that God is willing to grant them repentance leading unto life. I am not interested in eternally condemning anyman.
I don't see why its alluded to that my post is bordering on personal attack. I am following the same walk of faith propounded in Romans chapter 1. the words as Paul wrote them seem very plain and explicit. The whole passage should be read, although I cannot imagine anyone has not read it but this verse sums it up.I'm finding it hard to respond to this without violating rules about personal attack. Largely because this posting is itself such an attack. Paraphrased it is "people who disagree with me on sexual standards aren't Christians." I think people who confuse traditional sexual ethics with the Gospel are one of the most serious dangers to Christianity today. When they think of Christianity, people no longer think of Jesus, but of a conservative social agenda. This is a serious problem for those of us trying to teach actual Christianity.
I'd prefer not to throw words like "apostate" around, because I'm afraid it's possible to be confused by what the Gospel is but still to be accepted by Jesus as his follower. Fortunately Jesus is sometimes more accepting than I would be.
That seems like a signpost to be cognizant of but I think there are more then a few church's which are doctrinally close enough to the truth to miss being categorized as apostate yet can be called 'hung up on organization."The apostate church is hung up on organization rather than faith. The true church walks by faith and has ceased from their works just as our savior and lord has. The church is an organisim, alive and trusting God by Faith. True obedience is our ability to trust God by faith.
hismessenger
What do you think are some identifying characteristics of apostate churches? I myself consider churches that allow sexual union outside of marriage between a man and a woman (born that way, not manmade ) as apostate.
love, JE
Incidentally, Martin Luther believed that polygamy was within Biblical Christian practice (so do some modern Anglicans), so that blows the whole "Marriage is between one man and one woman" out of the water as being the standard for "orthodoxy".
Apostasy is denial of the faith as expressed in the first centuries and embodied in the major creeds of the Church. In order for a church to be apostate, the apostasy has to be formal heresy, embodied within the canons or liturgy of that church as normative practice. Otherwise a church is not necessarily heretical or apostate.
You are lying and misrepresenting the faith of others, so that you can label us as apostate and heretics.
No, I don't regard Lutherans as heretics (that seems odd being as I attend a Protestant church). But it is true that Christians have not always enforced monogamous marriage. In the early Middle Ages the Church largely ignored the polygamy of the Frankish nobility, and Anglican missionaries in Africa made concessions for polygamy (it is still permitted in many African countries by Anglican clergy).
Incidentally, Martin Luther believed that polygamy was within Biblical Christian practice (so do some modern Anglicans), so that blows the whole "Marriage is between one man and one woman" out of the water as being the standard for "orthodoxy".
Apostasy is denial of the faith as expressed in the first centuries and embodied in the major creeds of the Church. In order for a church to be apostate, the apostasy has to be formal heresy, embodied within the canons or liturgy of that church as normative practice. Otherwise a church is not necessarily heretical or apostate.
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