Apostasy?

[fatboys]

The apostasy was the "going out" that occurred when the Jews rejected Christ and chose to follow the weak and beggerly elements of the OC that was fading away.

It occurred in John's day and is equated with the antichrist.

Those that understood the promises to the fathers (that would be the OC fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, et al.) understood that Christ was the crown of God's plan and gladly accepted Him. The rest called down His blood on them and on their children.

They were called blind guides of the blind, brood of vipers, white-washed sepulchres, children of the devil, children of Hagar, the synagogue of satan, those that went out from us proving they were never of us, the harlot, etc, etc, etc.

FB: Sounds pretty harsh, and something like a quote from a Modern scholar that was quoted, which Jason got upset over.

So, the church was never in danger of "losing authority" because the apostates went out from the church.

In addition, those that trusted Christ as a prophet fled when they saw the signs and were saved and protected when those rebels were destroyed. The christians never disappeared. Of course that is God's promise, not to remove us from every trial or problem, but to deliver us by causing us to persevere or to provide a way out.

FB: And this is found where?

This answers all of the claims that the LDS make about a falling away, but also neatly undoes any force they have in extending it untill the 19th century or whenever. It was totally covenant related and ended when the OC ended.

FB: It may have answered some other LDS poster, but does not address those bishops who were banned when man was trying to figure the very character of God at Nicea.

 

[CrownCaster]

I can't tell you what the similarities of the LDS church of today and the early church of Christ is, but I can tell you what the similarities of the early restoration church (circa 1830) and the early church of Christ are.

There is the priesthood, there are the 6 principles of the gospel that were the foundation of the early Christian church (faith, repentance, baptism by water for the remission of sins, laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment), there were multitudinous manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit (healings, angel visitations, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, etc.) and there is the divine directive that was given to the church of bringing forth to pass the Kingdom of God on earth. Zion. The Kingdom is what Christ proclaimed throughout His entire ministry, and it is the call of the restored church. And what we, who feel we are the heirs to that church, seek to bring forth every day of our lives.

But I can't tell you what the similarities of the LDS church to the early church of Christ is.

Thank you so much for posting Jenda. Can we start with just one so we dont get off topic? Thanks.

I would like to focus on the priesthood for a moment.

In the early Church, there actually was not a priesthood but Jesus was the final High Priest. Also, in the Jewish priesthood, there was only one High Priest and it was his job to handle the duties in the temple.

There also were some regulations on some of the offices which today are called priesthood offices but then were not part of any priesthood but names of duties in the body. One of them is a Deacon. Now, this is a valid duty. It means helper. Only problem is that in the Bible, it calls for the deacons to be husbands of one wife and to control their homes and their children. There was no call for a twelve year old boy to be a deacon. Also, there is evidence of deaconesses in the early church but in the lds and I am assuming the rlds, the women are not allowed to hold this position.

well, lets just go with what we have here. Thanks.

 

[CrownCaster]

But is being "more Christian than the lds" enough? Only God knows what's in one's heart. If one still claims Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and firmly believes they will confess such when standing before God on judgement day, I fear they shall be lost to the lake of fire, no matter how "more Christian" they are. For one cannot serve two masters. I would still pray for her to see the light!

I dont think that God will ask if you thought j.s. was a prophet on that day but only want to know if your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life. There are some who believe j.s. was a prophet that I believe have a true relationship with Jesus. This is not the case, imo, most of the time so I think it dangerous to be in these groups but believing or not believing in j.s. is not a factor for salvation. It is all about Jesus or nothing at all.

 

[A New Dawn]

But is being "more Christian than the lds" enough? Only God knows what's in one's heart. If one still claims Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and firmly believes they will confess such when standing before God on judgement day, I fear they shall be lost to the lake of fire, no matter how "more Christian" they are. For one cannot serve two masters. I would still pray for her to see the light!

I agree with your statement that only God knows what is in one's heart. And I believe that God knows who is really His. And on that day, everyone who is His will stand before His throne and confess the truth, whatever it is. If I find out that the restoration is a bunch of baloney, I will confess that and my sins. If you are God's, and find out that that it isn't (baloney), you will be able to confess the truth, too.

The fact that no man is God means that none of us has all the light, and we are all striving to follow the will of God in our lives. I pray that we may all receive light and truth.

Thank you for the concern, Fit4Christ, I do need all the prayers I can get.

 

[A New Dawn]

Thank you so much for posting Jenda. Can we start with just one so we dont get off topic? Thanks.

I would like to focus on the priesthood for a moment.

In the early Church, there actually was not a priesthood but Jesus was the final High Priest. Also, in the Jewish priesthood, there was only one High Priest and it was his job to handle the duties in the temple.

There also were some regulations on some of the offices which today are called priesthood offices but then were not part of any priesthood but names of duties in the body. One of them is a Deacon. Now, this is a valid duty. It means helper. Only problem is that in the Bible, it calls for the deacons to be husbands of one wife and to control their homes and their children. There was no call for a twelve year old boy to be a deacon. Also, there is evidence of deaconesses in the early church but in the lds and I am assuming the rlds, the women are not allowed to hold this position.

well, lets just go with what we have here. Thanks.

There were the apostles. I think that was already mentioned. Christ sent out the seventy to preach Christ's coming. There were priests as well as high priests.

Ephesians 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

From the commentary on that scripture passage by David Guzik:

The offices of spiritual leadership in the church and their purpose

a. He Himself has established these offices; through pretenders may lay claim to them, the offices themselves are a Divine institution, not a human one
b. Paul describes four offices (not five, as in the commonly yet erroneously termed "five-fold ministry)

i. Apostles, those who are special ambassadors of God's work, though not in the same authoritative sense of the first century apostles, who were used to provide a foundation (preserved as the New Testament) as described in Ephesians 2:20
ii. Prophets, those who speak forth words from God in total consistency with the foundation of the Old and New Testaments; sometimes in a predictive sense, but not necessarily so, and always subject to the discernment and judgment of the church leadership (1 Corinthians 14:29), and again, not in the same authoritative sense that the first century prophets brought God's foundational word (Ephesians 2:20)

iii. Evangelists, who are specifically gifted to preach the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ

iv. Pastors and teachers (or, pastor-teachers; the Greek clearly describes one office with two descriptive titles), who shepherd the flock of God, primarily (though not exclusively) through teaching the Word of God

v. These gifts are given at the discretion of Jesus, working through the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:11); the importance of having "all four in operation" in any church body is up to Jesus who appoints such; the job of responsible church leadership is to not hinder or prevent such ministry, but never to "promote it into existence"​

I would like to say, in response to section v. of the above commentary, we believe that the priesthood must be called by God. Someone may not step up and say "I want to be ordained". The call (and office) is made via revelation to the pastor and/or other priesthood members who confirm the calling, and then the person who is receiving the calling is approached. However, it is often never a surprise as God reveals the same thing to the person being called.

I would also like to say that, contrary to section iv. of the commentary, we do view that the pastor and teacher are two different callings. Or let me state it differently. That the pastor is not a specific office, but can be any office as the pastor is the shepherd of the flock, and God will use whichever priesthood office is best suited for the needs of the people in the specific area.

To get to your last paragraph, you will have to note that my post dealt specifically with the restored church as it was restored in 1830, and to a lesser extent with the RLDS church of today (which most resembles the restored church of 1830). Joseph Smith did not ordain 12 year old boys into the priesthood, it was not used as a progression, and at that time, polygamy was not part of the church, so the deacon was, indeed, the husband of one wife.

I don't believe that you are correct about the proof of women in the priesthood in the early Christian church, I believe that the record states that women were only ordained in very isolated places where the women had been priestesses in pagan religions and created a stink (so to say) about wanting to be in the priesthood of the Christian church. And that did not happen till close to 200 AD, if I remember right. And they were only psuedo-ordained. More like a "setting apart". They were ordained to the position they had always done. None of it was sacerdotal.

But be that as it may, the RLDS church does ordain women to the priesthood. A position I find at odds with the early church.

 

[A New Dawn]

Dawn,

I consider you're branch of Mormonism (RLDS/CoC) to be more Christian than the LDS branch. Don't know that that makes anything better between us, but I wanted you to know that.

Thanks, Jason.

But was there something wrong between us?

 

[MormonFriend]

Not so. There is a major difference. We do not recognize those apostate groups as "part of the body." There always has been, and always will be apostates. What they do with their free will is protected by the foundation of our beliefs and laws of God. But they have severed themselves from the true Body.

I'm sorry, but this is reallllllllllllllly off-topic (sort-of).

I have to chuckle when you (and others) say this because we (the RLDS) consider ourselves the heirs to the restored church, and don't consider you (the LDS) part of the body. That you have severed yourselves from the true Body by following someone who didn't have the authority to lead the church and by officially incorporating those practices that were not original to the church when it was restored by Christ.

It is just a arrogance that I find amusing. Sorry for the distraction.

I don't understand the arrogance accusation. I stated a point and fact. Your point is well taken and valid. Either you broke away from us, or we from you. Which ever it was is not my point. In Christianity, they recognize such divisions as legitimate, when it was not God's will. You do not recognize LDS, and we do not recognize RLDS. It is up to each individual to ascertain for themselves, by seeking the personal revelation from God, as to where the truth can be found, whether it be LDS, RLDS, modern Christianity, or whatever else is on the list.

I must assume you hold true that there was an apostasy.

 

[MormonFriend]

Thank you so much for posting Jenda. Can we start with just one so we dont get off topic? Thanks.

I would like to focus on the priesthood for a moment.

In the early Church, there actually was not a priesthood but Jesus was the final High Priest. Also, in the Jewish priesthood, there was only one High Priest and it was his job to handle the duties in the temple.

There also were some regulations on some of the offices which today are called priesthood offices but then were not part of any priesthood but names of duties in the body. One of them is a Deacon. Now, this is a valid duty. It means helper. Only problem is that in the Bible, it calls for the deacons to be husbands of one wife and to control their homes and their children. There was no call for a twelve year old boy to be a deacon. Also, there is evidence of deaconesses in the early church but in the lds and I am assuming the rlds, the women are not allowed to hold this position.

well, lets just go with what we have here. Thanks.

It seems to me that you are putting a straight jacket on the Church. There are so many variables in play here, and you lock everything up as if it must play out by your interpretation.

For example, the early Church were all converts. The adults were barely converted and still teaching their children. Many converts were still struggling to understand the basics, or "the first principles of the oracles of God." Deacons were needed to serve, and perhaps only few adults were the only ones prepared at that time. The Church was to grow, and who can say what might have been if it did? The Apostles were so busy with stableizing false doctrines and other problems, where mail was slow, and traveling was not quite what it was today, that the growth of the Church never quite blossemed the way it was intended.

Also keep in mind that time periods of past are divided into dispensations, each dispensation to bring about greater contributions to the overall Kingdom of God on earth. We are now in what is termed the Dispensation of the Fullnes of Times. It would not be unusual to see new or different approaches, designed to accomidate the current situations. That is the beauty and purpose of revelation from God. You cannot demand that the Church today fit the exact mold of the last dispensation because of growth, and other variables.

The basic structure of the Church today stands strong and is working well, against overwhelming odds. That can only happen because God is at the helm. Joseph Smith wrote:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” (History of the Church 4:540.)

You obviously do not take this work serious, and that is your choice, which I honor. But if you want to truly understand it, your approach is wrong. It wasn't until I was a missionary in Argentina, teaching people about the correct approach to learning, I realized that I myself have never really applied that "process" of learning. I struggled for a few months, but finally got it together and applied myself to the things I was teaching. It worked, and I saw things from a new Light. Things made sense and fit together that never did before. I know why some people cannnot make sense of our message. I cannot make that sense for them. It is a very personal experience where a person must approach God, one on one, and pour out your soul to Him. And He is going to see through you, where you will know of your own hypocrisy and insincerity. He will say something to the effect of: "come back and ask again when you have a better attiude with the light and knowledge I have already given you." It is an experience that changes you for life, for the better.

 

[CrownCaster]

I don't understand the arrogance accusation. I stated a point and fact. Your point is well taken and valid. Either you broke away from us, or we from you. Which ever it was is not my point. In Christianity, they recognize such divisions as legitimate, when it was not God's will. You do not recognize LDS, and we do not recognize RLDS. It is up to each individual to ascertain for themselves, by seeking the personal revelation from God, as to where the truth can be found, whether it be LDS, RLDS, modern Christianity, or whatever else is on the list.

I must assume you hold true that there was an apostasy.

I would have to back jenda here. If the church that j.s. established was true then it is the lds church that is in apostasty. They have held to their beliefs regardless of any government pressure. Now, of course I dont think either is correct but I would have to side with the RLDS if it was to come to it.

 

[CrownCaster]

For example, the early Church were all converts. The adults were barely converted and still teaching their children. Many converts were still struggling to understand the basics, or "the first principles of the oracles of God." Deacons were needed to serve, and perhaps only few adults were the only ones prepared at that time. The Church was to grow, and who can say what might have been if it did?

A lot of maybes and ifs and buts but no evidence.

It would not be unusual to see new or different approaches, designed to accomidate the current situations. That is the beauty and purpose of revelation from God. You cannot demand that the Church today fit the exact mold of the last dispensation because of growth, and other variables.

Well, my Bible says that God is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow and you have made a mistake here. Your faith is the one that wants us to think you resemble the early Church but when you dont you say that it had to change to accomodate current situations. Cant have it both ways. Either it is the same or not.

You obviously do not take this work serious,

True.

. It is a very personal experience where a person must approach God, one on one, and pour out your soul to Him.

Been there done that. I prayed fervently for an answer to the question of the wether the lds church was true, if j.s. was a prophet, if the book of mormon was true. You are right, God answered. That is why I am no longer a mormon

And He is going to see through you, where you will know of your own hypocrisy and insincerity.

Are you calling me an insincere hypocrite?

It is an experience that changes you for life, for the better.

That is the problem with the test of the book of mormon. It is automatically assumed by its wording that you will always get the burning bosom of approval. Well, I did not so according to the bom I was not honest and sincere in praying. That hurt. I knew I WAS sincere. I really wanted to know. So I pushed on and did the work that was required in the church and all the while I was continually praying, HARD and LONG for an anwer. For my confirmation. Well, God led me out. So in the bom I was just never sincere. Sorry, it does not work that way. I am as sincere in my desire to follow Jesus WHEREVER He may lead. If that was the mormon church then I would be there full on.

 

[MormonFriend]

And He is going to see through you, where you will know of your own hypocrisy and insincerity.

Are you calling me an insincere hypocrite?

Not at all. I am speaking generically, based on the experience I had. I am saying that my insincerity and hypocrisy was made known to me, and even still is. I feel safe to assume that most people will have similar experiences.

 

[MormonFriend]

That is the problem with the test of the book of mormon. It is automatically assumed by its wording that you will always get the burning bosom of approval. Well, I did not so according to the bom I was not honest and sincere in praying. That hurt. I knew I WAS sincere. I really wanted to know. So I pushed on and did the work that was required in the church and all the while I was continually praying, HARD and LONG for an anwer. For my confirmation. Well, God led me out. So in the bom I was just never sincere. Sorry, it does not work that way. I am as sincere in my desire to follow Jesus WHEREVER He may lead. If that was the mormon church then I would be there full on.

I certainly am not in any position to judge your integrity. That too is a very personal issue. We only have the standards that are written by which to guage ourselves. Yes, I see how the B of M can cause you to realize such conclusions. You know the reality of your experience, and I mine. The fact that we differ would not stop me from shaking your hand, or even a brotherly hug. We both know that the wheat shall be separated from the tares, and perhaps we are witnessing that process first hand. How can we help but not feel a deep and genuine concern for each other when we both are searching so dilligently and sincerely?

Darell

 

[A New Dawn]

I must assume you hold true that there was an apostasy.

Yes, I do. But we believe that it happened closer to 600 AD.

 

[stauron]

FB: Sounds pretty harsh, and something like a quote from a Modern scholar that was quoted, which Jason got upset over.

Well scripture can be harsh sometimes. I am not sure to which scholar you are refering, but if he was quoting scripture then good for him. Jesus reserves His harshest judgments for those who thought they were God's and lead people away and taught them lies. John calls them antichrists.

FB: And this is found where?

The prediction/warning is in Luke for one.

21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21:21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Those who are inside the city must depart. Those who are out in the country must not enter it, 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written

Josephus and others describe the historical outcome. The christians that trusted Jesus' words fled and avoided the destruction.

FB: It may have answered some other LDS poster, but does not address those bishops who were banned when man was trying to figure the very character of God at Nicea.

Yeah, I am not sure what that has to do with the biblically defined and delimited "going out" that occurred. God gave His authority to His children and they are able to mete it out where ever 2 or more are gathered. All are royal priests that are in Christ and we have no one that exercizes authority the way that gentiles do. As far as the "church fathers" are concerned, men were doing worse than that with Paul and Peter around. They weren't inspired and were arguing about the inspired word. We certainly aren't any further along then they were. At best there is many more flavors around now, and LDS "revelation" hasn't cleared it up.

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

For example, the early Church were all converts. The adults were barely converted and still teaching their children. Many converts were still struggling to understand the basics, or "the first principles of the oracles of God." Deacons were needed to serve, and perhaps only few adults were the only ones prepared at that time. The Church was to grow, and who can say what might have been if it did? The Apostles were so busy with stableizing false doctrines and other problems, where mail was slow, and traveling was not quite what it was today, that the growth of the Church never quite blossemed the way it was intended.

Source?

Also keep in mind that time periods of past are divided into dispensations, each dispensation to bring about greater contributions to the overall Kingdom of God on earth. We are now in what is termed the Dispensation of the Fullnes of Times. It would not be unusual to see new or different approaches, designed to accomidate the current situations. That is the beauty and purpose of revelation from God. You cannot demand that the Church today fit the exact mold of the last dispensation because of growth, and other variables.

Source?

The basic structure of the Church today stands strong and is working well, against overwhelming odds. That can only happen because God is at the helm.

Source?

Joseph Smith wrote:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” (History of the Church 4:540.)

Our missionaries went first.

You obviously do not take this work serious, and that is your choice, which I honor. But if you want to truly understand it, your approach is wrong. It wasn't until I was a missionary in Argentina, teaching people about the correct approach to learning, I realized that I myself have never really applied that "process" of learning. I struggled for a few months, but finally got it together and applied myself to the things I was teaching. It worked, and I saw things from a new Light. Things made sense and fit together that never did before. I know why some people cannnot make sense of our message. I cannot make that sense for them. It is a very personal experience where a person must approach God, one on one, and pour out your soul to Him. And He is going to see through you, where you will know of your own hypocrisy and insincerity. He will say something to the effect of: "come back and ask again when you have a better attiude with the light and knowledge I have already given you." It is an experience that changes you for life, for the better.

Exactly why I left! I couldn't have said it better! :crosself:

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

Yes, I do. But we believe that it happened closer to 600 AD.

Mind if I ask you why?

 

[Fit4Christ]

I dont think that God will ask if you thought j.s. was a prophet on that day but only want to know if your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life. There are some who believe j.s. was a prophet that I believe have a true relationship with Jesus. This is not the case, imo, most of the time so I think it dangerous to be in these groups but believing or not believing in j.s. is not a factor for salvation. It is all about Jesus or nothing at all.

I disagree that God will only want to know if one's name is written in the Lambs Book of Life. He will also judge according to what one has done. In Revelations 20:11-15:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

As I said, only God can judge what's in one's heart. David Koresh, Jim Jones, et al, have also claimed to have Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Not that I'm comparing Jenda or any other RLDS or LDS to those people. I'm just stating that anyone can claim it, but God has the final authority. Which leads me to the verse in Matthew 7:21-23 that sticks in my mind when I think about my LDS in-laws

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Sorry for the diversion of the thread topic, but I just felt I had to speak out to those who may feel they are "close to Christians" in their beliefs.

Have a blessed day!

 

[Fit4Christ]

I agree with your statement that only God knows what is in one's heart. And I believe that God knows who is really His. And on that day, everyone who is His will stand before His throne and confess the truth, whatever it is. If I find out that the restoration is a bunch of baloney, I will confess that and my sins. If you are God's, and find out that that it isn't (baloney), you will be able to confess the truth, too.

I hope that if one of us is wrong, a chance to change our mind will be given.

The fact that no man is God means that none of us has all the light, and we are all striving to follow the will of God in our lives. I pray that we may all receive light and truth.

Thank you for the concern, Fit4Christ, I do need all the prayers I can get.

No problem. Always willing to pray for those who ask and on behalf of those who won't ask!:crosself:

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Hi Fit4Christ While I agree with most of the things you say here on CF, I do disagree with your comment on Revelation:Revelation 20

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Those who are judged at the great White Thrown judgement for their works are those who are spiritually dead, who do not have Christ. Those who are in the Lamb's book of life are given eternal life, period. Those who are not believers are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Fit4Christ]

Hi Fit4Christ While I agree with most of the things you say here on CF, I do disagree with your comment on Revelation:Revelation 20

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Those who are judged at the great White Thrown judgement for their works are those who are spiritually dead, who do not have Christ. Those who are in the Lamb's book of life are given eternal life, period. Those who are not believers are cast into the lake of fire.

My Bible study group just did a Bible study in the spring on the Book of Revelation and that was my understanding of that passage. What you say makes sense and if I am wrong in my interpretation, I certainly don't mind the correction.

But either way, I think it does fit in with my earlier comments to Jenda. Only God knows what's in her heart as far as Christ being her Lord and Saviour. If her name isn't written in the book of life, then she will be judged per the passage I quoted. And at that time, IMO, if she is still holding on to JS being a prophet of God and all the other extra Biblical beliefs of the RLDS, then I fear she will be cast into the lake of fire. On a personal note, I am not fully convinced that LDS, RLDS, and any other persons who may claim Christ as their Saviour will actually be saved, not matter how close to being "Christians" they may be. Again, I may be wrong, but that's my issue and I'll leave it up to the One Who Judges.