Apostasy?

[skylark1]

It would also be nice if you answered the question instead of questioning my experience.

Since the comments on the board are there for all to read, I certainly did not consider this to be questioning your "experience."

It was remarked in response to a post about repentance that one who is saved need not repent all the time because Christ has paid for all our sins already, so if we sin, He already has covered it. That asking for forgiveness is like asking for a gift after it has already been given.

I have read comments that have said that Christ has paid for our sins already, and that we are not saved by our works, but I have not read any post that suggested that we need not repent or that we are not to repent, confess our sins, and pray for forgiveness. Just because someone believes that salvation is dependent upon the sacrifice of Christ, rather than our works, does not mean that they believe that we are not to repent.

Without a specific example, I believe that you have misunderstood what someone was saying.

 

[gort]

Jenda,

Did you see that in another section of CF? other than our little paradise here? I've not seen that referred to at UT. Had it been, a scuffle would of arised. lol.

I would imagine one could see that perhaps in "liberal theology".

fwiw

<><

 

[Zeddicus]

Are you saying we first must have a correct understanding on essential issues before we can have the Spirit?

No and yes...

No, because the Spirit will work on us before we are granted the gift of salvation to get us to come to Christ.

Yes, because the Spirit does not indwell us until after we are saved.

 

[MormonFriend]

THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE!

Ye must be born again. A new birth results in a new creature. I've told you this over and over and over again. Keep ignoring me. I'll keep repeating the truth.

Why did you omit part of my paragraph when you responded?

You quoted:
"What do Protestants say about repentance? "Not necessary once we are born again, or we can go on sinning any time we have a slack period. ...."

But you left out this part which sums up the other two.

"We should repent, but it is not essential to salvation."

Are you saying repentance is necessary for salvation? (I hope so!)

I agree whole heartedly that when a person is born again, he/she is a new creature through repentance and the atonement of Christ. Look what happens to a person who is truley born again.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

(New Testament | 1 John 3:9)

I have to believe, from what scripture says, that Christians today are a bit pre-mature about the new birth.

 

[Rescued One]

It would also be nice if you answered the question instead of questioning my experience.

It was remarked in response to a post about repentance that one who is saved need not repent all the time because Christ has paid for all our sins already, so if we sin, He already has covered it. That asking for forgiveness is like asking for a gift after it has already been given.

We do not want to please Satan! We won't want to do that tomorrow or the next day.

Now if you don't believe that Christ's blood covers our sins, you'll have to take that up with Him.

Romans 4
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Rescued One]

....
Are you saying repentance is necessary for salvation? (I hope so!)

I agree whole heartedly that when a person is born again, he/she is a new creature through repentance and the atonement of Christ. Look what happens to a person who is truley born again.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

(New Testament | 1 John 3:9)

I have to believe, from what scripture says, that Christians today are a bit pre-mature about the new birth.

Repentance is a change of heart.

Who is sanctifying us?

Titus 3
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.

Behold, I make all things new.

This is really good:

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Corinthians 6
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Goodnight.

 

[A New Dawn]

We do not want to please Satan! We won't want to do that tomorrow or the next day.

Now if you don't believe that Christ's blood covers our sins, you'll have to take that up with Him.

I believe that when we decide to become Christians and take the name of Christ upon ourselves in the waters of baptism, that we make a covenant with Him. His blood covers our sins, but in return, we are required certain things. And repentance is one of them. The scriptures clearly say that if we continually turn from Him and crucify Him daily, that we are not saved.

 

[Rescued One]

I believe that when we decide to become Christians and take the name of Christ upon ourselves in the waters of baptism, that we make a covenant with Him. His blood covers our sins, but in return, we are required certain things. And repentance is one of them. The scriptures clearly say that if we continually turn from Him and crucify Him daily, that we are not saved.

Who has ever heard of a Christian turning from Christ? Only someone who is mentally ill would do that! If someone actually came to Christ, I seriously doubt that he was mentally ill.

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[JBucky]

It is, however, completely possible to worship or believe in Him incorrectly, as each side claims the other to do. We all agree that this is prety bad.

We can also turn from Him by disobeying Him, but He gives us the chance to repent and be forgiven.

 

[A New Dawn]

Who has ever heard of a Christian turning from Christ? Only someone who is mentally ill would do that! If someone actually came to Christ, I seriously doubt that he was mentally ill.

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I'm not making it up, if that is what the implication is. It is clearly in the scriptures.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

 

[JBucky]

That's really what the epistles were all about, trying to keep the flock from wandering away from the teachings the Apostles had carried them. Even in that time, people were following their own ideas instead of God's.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

That's really what the epistles were all about, trying to keep the flock from wandering away from the teachings the Apostles had carried them. Even in that time, people were following their own ideas instead of God's.

and it is still going on today in the form of many pseudo-christian churches.

 

[JBucky]

And mainstream churches.(You left that part out ). Just because you're in the majority, doesn't make you right. Heck, if I remember correctly, there's WAY more Muslims in this world than Christians. Does that make them right by default? So don't go calling my church Psuedo-Christian just because it's different from your's.

Everybody's pretty much chasing after their own beliefs. Everyone's got SOME reason for believing what they do, otherwise how would their faith survive? Everyone seems to be able to prove(at least to themselves)that their own belief is true. So how do we know which one's right? Everyone's got a different interpretation of the Bible, so I figure it rules out that course of action. Where can we go to for answers?

 

[gort]

Even if a mans feet were dipped into the very deep pools of hell, and was allowed to come back to tell, he still would'nt be believed.

<><

 

[Rescued One]

I'm not making it up, if that is what the implication is. It is clearly in the scriptures.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Are you saying that God unsaves people? I have to disagree.

Rom. 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

God puts His Spirit in us. He completes the good work He begins of sanctifying us.

Rom. 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You see with all that help from God, the devil cannot have victory over us.

~†~*~†~*~†~*~†~*~†~*~†~*~†~*~†~

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


If they shall fall away, but they can't fall away.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[gort]

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


If they shall fall away, but they can't fall away.

Very good GWIT. Many of the scriptures that people fail to see is that it is God working in us that does the real works.

Also missed by people in verse 4 of Heb chapter 6.

It is impossible for those who were once enlightened and tasted of the Heavenly gift. Having fallen (if possible) it would be impossible for man.....but it's not impossible for God to yank them out.

<><

 

[happyinhisgrace]

And mainstream churches.(You left that part out ). Just because you're in the majority, doesn't make you right. Heck, if I remember correctly, there's WAY more Muslims in this world than Christians. Does that make them right by default? So don't go calling my church Psuedo-Christian just because it's different from your's.

Everybody's pretty much chasing after their own beliefs. Everyone's got SOME reason for believing what they do, otherwise how would their faith survive? Everyone seems to be able to prove(at least to themselves)that their own belief is true. So how do we know which one's right? Everyone's got a different interpretation of the Bible, so I figure it rules out that course of action. Where can we go to for answers?

I don't call your church a "psuedo-christian church" just because it isn't like the church I worship at, I call it that because it goes against the Word of God and spits in the face of Almighty God!

Where can we go for answers? We go to the Word of God! Easy!

 

[Breetai]

I believe that when we decide to become Christians and take the name of Christ upon ourselves in the waters of baptism, that we make a covenant with Him. His blood covers our sins, but in return, we are required certain things. And repentance is one of them. The scriptures clearly say that if we continually turn from Him and crucify Him daily, that we are not saved.

You're sort of correct.

We do have a convenant with God and that does involve things like good works and obeying the law, but these are things that follow after we are already saved by our faith that Jesus saves us. You are wrong in saying that when we continually turn from Him and crucify Him daily that we are not saved. Everyday we Christians re-crucify Christ when we sin. Fortuntely, we are forgiven for this.

Ironically, when one is seem constantly turning from Christ and sinning, then that person probably isn't or never was saved in the first place. Good works do not save or create faith, but they are definetely a part of faith. They naturally follow faith. Although we fall again and again, we are convicted of our sin and are reminded that we are forgiven though Christ. Good works follow after this realization in Christ's name.

 

[Rescued One]

And mainstream churches.(You left that part out ). Just because you're in the majority, doesn't make you right. Heck, if I remember correctly, there's WAY more Muslims in this world than Christians. Does that make them right by default? So don't go calling my church Psuedo-Christian just because it's different from your's.

Everybody's pretty much chasing after their own beliefs. Everyone's got SOME reason for believing what they do, otherwise how would their faith survive? Everyone seems to be able to prove(at least to themselves)that their own belief is true. So how do we know which one's right? Everyone's got a different interpretation of the Bible, so I figure it rules out that course of action. Where can we go to for answers?

To find the answers, you start with the One True God. He has never yet led anyone astray. Then you ask Him for guidance when you read the Bible. The Holy Spirit is promised to believers (those who are born again). The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Anything that contradicts the Bible is not of God. Everyone doesn't have a different interpretation of the Bible. Some have a different interpretation. If you rely on the Holy Spirit, He will do the interpreting for You.

Psalm 119
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Acts 17
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

We have to ignore these kind of comments:

Joseph Smith also declared, "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Translation of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 327).

Apostle Orson Pratt stated: "If it be admitted that the apostles and evangelists did write the books of the New Testament, that does not prove of itself that they were divinely inspired at the time they wrote.... Add all this imperfection to the uncertainty of the translation, and who, IN HIS RIGHT MIND could for one moment suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?" (Divine Authority of the Book of Mormon, pp. 45, 47)

LDS Apostle Orson Pratt further proclaimed, "The Bible has been robbed of its plainness; many sacred books having been lost, others rejected by the Romish Church, and what few we have left, were copied and re-copied so many times, that it is admitted that almost every verse has been corrupted and mutilated to that degree that scarcely any two of them read alike" (The Seer, p. 213)

Apostle Mark E. Peterson said, "Many insertions were made, some of them 'slanted' for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p. 4).

 

[Apex]

I don't call your church a "psuedo-christian church" just because it isn't like the church I worship at, I call it that because it goes against the Word of God and spits in the face of Almighty God!

Where can we go for answers? We go to the Word of God! Easy!

This is simply youre opinion. And have we ever claimed that youre church "spits in the face of Almight God"? So please dont make that claim to us.