Anyone up for a chat thread?

[Paidiske]

Our clergy have been encouraged to have 2 days off but as I'm sure you can imagine it's easier said than done.

There's a bit of a campaign nationally here to have "full time" be defined as five days a week. I know of one diocese that has done that, and others are considering it. Our bishop has made his opposition very clear, so I doubt it will get any traction here any time soon.

I've just changed roles too (In August) I'm now full time director of ministry so an entirely different way for me from parish life.

What a fantastic role! I hope you really enjoy it.

 

[RileyG]

Winter? You should try Christmas in high summer! It's... different.

I'm doing okay. Since the beginning of December I've dropped down to working four days a week (the intention is that that's until the end of April while we reconfigure the parish finances). I haven't figured out how that works from a ministry point of view, but I'm rather enjoying having more time for my own wellbeing.

I'm in the Midwest. Although we are in winter, we have had many "green Christmases" with no snow.

I prefer snow during Christmas. It's pretty, but can be a pain.

 

[RileyG]

There's a bit of a campaign nationally here to have "full time" be defined as five days a week. I know of one diocese that has done that, and others are considering it. Our bishop has made his opposition very clear, so I doubt it will get any traction here any time soon.

What a fantastic role! I hope you really enjoy it.

I don't know if "full time" is considered there 40 hours per week, but I have no idea what clergy schedule looks like.

Most people idolize work and work 40+ hours per week because they need the money.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't know if "full time" is considered there 40 hours per week, but I have no idea what clergy schedule looks like.

There's no standard schedule. I've worked in four different places since being ordained, and every place has a pattern and rhythm of life that's different.

In general, the expectation is that you're available six days a week. Generally one of those days might be a lighter day. On other work days, I've been advised to divide the day roughly into three blocks; morning, afternoon and evening, and only work two of them. (So if you have evening meetings, maybe don't work as much in the morning, for example). Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.

A forty-hour week would be a pipe dream for most full time parish clergy.

 

[RileyG]

There's no standard schedule. I've worked in four different places since being ordained, and every place has a pattern and rhythm of life that's different.

In general, the expectation is that you're available six days a week. Generally one of those days might be a lighter day. On other work days, I've been advised to divide the day roughly into three blocks; morning, afternoon and evening, and only work two of them. (So if you have evening meetings, maybe don't work as much in the morning, for example). Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.

A forty-hour week would be a pipe dream for most full time parish clergy.

Ah, thanks for the response!

As a layperson, I have zero idea how clergy or religious life is like.

Hope you are doing well.

 

[Arcangl86]

The expectations laid on clergy have always confused me. The workload they are expected to carry is higher than most parishioners would want to in their own life. Like emergencies notwithstanding, there is no reason a priest should be expected to work10-20 hours more than lay members of the church. I wonder if the attitude is "we work and then are expected to volunteer so why shouldn't the priest be the same." Which to me implies a limited idea of ministry.

 

[Deegie]

There's no standard schedule. I've worked in four different places since being ordained, and every place has a pattern and rhythm of life that's different.

In general, the expectation is that you're available six days a week. Generally one of those days might be a lighter day. On other work days, I've been advised to divide the day roughly into three blocks; morning, afternoon and evening, and only work two of them. (So if you have evening meetings, maybe don't work as much in the morning, for example). Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.

A forty-hour week would be a pipe dream for most full time parish clergy.

I think most professionals end up working more than 40 hours a week most of the time. I certainly did in my previous career. And now, I think the expectation is that I'm available 24/7. Perhaps it's my fault for answering them, but I get texts and emails from 6am to 9pm most days.

But I will say that my diocese is clear in its priest letters of agreement (think contract, but not quite) that the "scheduled workweek" is five days. Some of our letters also use the block system you describe which isn't standard but should be very helpful in setting expectations with the parish. For those of us who do, the defined expectation is 10 blocks a week. I guess the questions, then, are whether that's actually realistic and whether the bishop would support us in actually sticking to those standards.

 

[Paidiske]

I wonder if the attitude is "we work and then are expected to volunteer so why shouldn't the priest be the same."

I think there can be something of that. In my previous parish, the diocesan synod ran over my day off. Accordingly, I took a day in lieu some time later; and one of the wardens objected strongly, saying that all the lay people volunteered their time to be at synod, I shouldn't consider it a work day for the parish either.

Perhaps it's my fault for answering them, but I get texts and emails from 6am to 9pm most days.

I am not one of God's natural morning people, and I don't answer the phone before I'm up and dressed and ready to face the day. That means that calls before about 9am most days go through to voicemail and get responded to afterwards. But I often work late into the evening (when my natural night owl temperament means I'm much more "with it").

But I will say that my diocese is clear in its priest letters of agreement (think contract, but not quite) that the "scheduled workweek" is five days. Some of our letters also use the block system you describe which isn't standard but should be very helpful in setting expectations with the parish. For those of us who do, the defined expectation is 10 blocks a week. I guess the questions, then, are whether that's actually realistic and whether the bishop would support us in actually sticking to those standards.

We have a similar system about letters of agreement (there are no contracts, because legally we're not employees, which is a whole other thing...). But here full time is six days, and the block system has never been something I've seen formally defined, just advice from more experienced clergy. IME the bishops/dioceses make all the right noises about protecting your day off and rest/family time, but without any practical support when the demands are unsustainable.

 

[Paidiske]

Tell me you're not a parent, without telling me you're not a parent. Just came across a comment made by Jean Calvin that "children are not yet aware what rivalry is."

I laughed.

 

[Shane R]

I performed a conditional baptism last Sunday and reported it to the bishop Tuesday. He told me I have the distinction of logging the first baptism of the year.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I performed a conditional baptism

I learned something today googling "conditional baptism." Thanks for contributing to my education.

 

[RileyG]

I learned something today googling "conditional baptism." Thanks for contributing to my education.

I own the red Book of Common Prayer (a wonderful, wonderful resource, even though I’m Roman Catholic), and, if I’m not mistaken, conditional baptism is in there.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I own the red Book of Common Prayer (a wonderful, wonderful resource, even though I’m Roman Catholic), and, if I’m not mistaken, conditional baptism is in there.

Probably, but since I am not in the baptizing business I confess I have never read it. I am more into the praying and worshipping side of the BCP. Never too old to learn something new!

 

[RileyG]

Probably, but since I am not in the baptizing business I confess I have never read it. I am more into the praying and worshipping side of the BCP. Never too old to learn something new!

Absolutely! Love the Book of Common prayer’s offices and I read through the Eucharistic prayers as well

 

[Shane R]

If I recall correctly, seeking.IAM, you have a UMC background? You may be interested to hear the specifics of this case. The Candidate attends a Lutheran church I served quite a bit and still do sporadically. The candidate was in probably her 50s, if I had to guess. She was raised UMC and had believed for most of her life that she was baptized as an infant. One of her parents is deceased and the other could not remember for sure. The congregation where it would have taken place has closed and their records presumably went to the district. She contacted that office and was told there was no record but they could have the national archive searched if she was willing to pay for it and it could take up to 10 months to receive a result. I'm not currently at her church every Sunday and some of the other Lutheran pastors declined to do it. I told her there was a service called 'conditonal baptism' that is appropriate in these cases.

@RileyG, I used the form in A Manual for Priests, which is an Anglo-Catholic resource from probably the 1940s or 50s, but I used the Lutheran verbiage when possible.

 

[RileyG]

If I recall correctly, seeking.IAM, you have a UMC background? You may be interested to hear the specifics of this case. The candidate was in probably her 50s, if I had to guess. She was raised UMC and had believed for most of her life that she was baptized as an infant. One of her parents is deceased and the other could not remember for sure. The congregation where it would have taken place has closed and their records presumably went to the district. She contacted that office and was told there was no record but they could have the national archive searched if she was willing to pay for it and it could take up to 10 months to receive a result. I'm not currently at her church every Sunday and some of the other Lutheran pastors declined to do it. I told her there was a service called 'conditonal baptism' that is appropriate in these cases.

@RileyG, I used the form in the Manual for Priests, which is an Anglo-Catholic resource from probably the 1940s or 50s, but I used the Lutheran verbiage when possible.

Very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing!

 

[The Liturgist]

I performed a conditional baptism last Sunday and reported it to the bishop Tuesday. He told me I have the distinction of logging the first baptism of the year.

In my experience lots of baptisms tend to happen on Epiphany, including oddly some infant baptisms at my friend Fr. Steve’s church prior to his retirement in 2014; I was present at his last Epiphany / Theophany / Baptism of our Lord service in 2014 and it had a pretty decent crowd.

 

[Deegie]

I performed a conditional baptism last Sunday and reported it to the bishop Tuesday. He told me I have the distinction of logging the first baptism of the year.

Yay! Out of curiosity, why do you have to report baptisms to your bishop?

 

[Shane R]

Yay! Out of curiosity, why do you have to report baptisms to your bishop?

So he can keep a log of what is happening in the church. In the Continuing churches, documented numbers are a salve for many things. It will probably make the newsletter.

I figured you folks reported too; at least annually to the diocese?

 

[Paidiske]

Yay! Out of curiosity, why do you have to report baptisms to your bishop?

I'm surprised at this too. In my experience, it's normal to send a bunch of statistics into the diocesan office once a year. (Usually around the time of the annual meeting). The only time I'd contact my bishop specifically about a service is for a wedding for which I need his permission.

Which reminds me, the parish statistics are overdue and I really need to find time to look at them.... sigh.