Anyone up for a chat thread?

Paidiske

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It was lovely today - about 24 or so, I think. But I'm in the south, it'll be hotter further up north.

And it'll be 35 tomorrow. Think I'll need to find something to do that involves a trip to somewhere with air conditioning!
 
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Paidiske

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9:30 here now. Printing stuff for Sunday morning.

The parish council decided to undertake a parish survey about worship times, styles, content etc. I've just compiled all the responses and am printing out a bit of a report. The feedback was... robust. We're going to have fun sorting through the people who want an evening service; don't want an evening service; the people who want simpler ceremonial; richer ceremonial; less music; more old favourite hymns; more modern music; more contemporary services; creative liturgies; more preaching; shorter sermons; better inclusion and involvement of children (despite none currently attending regularly); and things to stay exactly the way they are now (only with more people please, kthnxbai).

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time... :eek:
 
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gordonhooker

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9:30 here now. Printing stuff for Sunday morning.

The parish council decided to undertake a parish survey about worship times, styles, content etc. I've just compiled all the responses and am printing out a bit of a report. The feedback was... robust. We're going to have fun sorting through the people who want an evening service; don't want an evening service; the people who want simpler ceremonial; richer ceremonial; less music; more old favourite hymns; more modern music; more contemporary services; creative liturgies; more preaching; shorter sermons; better inclusion and involvement of children (despite none currently attending regularly); and things to stay exactly the way they are now (only with more people please, kthnxbai).

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time... :eek:

So basically a typical Parish
 
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A_Thinker

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It was lovely today - about 24 or so, I think. But I'm in the south, it'll be hotter further up north.
So ... about 77 F. That is nice ...

It's about -5 C here (on 2/8/2019). We're opposite here, so it's warmer in the South.

And it'll be 35 tomorrow. Think I'll need to find something to do that involves a trip to somewhere with air conditioning!
That's about 100 F. Yep ... air-conditioning would be nice.
 
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Naomi4Christ

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9:30 here now. Printing stuff for Sunday morning.

The parish council decided to undertake a parish survey about worship times, styles, content etc. I've just compiled all the responses and am printing out a bit of a report. The feedback was... robust. We're going to have fun sorting through the people who want an evening service; don't want an evening service; the people who want simpler ceremonial; richer ceremonial; less music; more old favourite hymns; more modern music; more contemporary services; creative liturgies; more preaching; shorter sermons; better inclusion and involvement of children (despite none currently attending regularly); and things to stay exactly the way they are now (only with more people please, kthnxbai).

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time... :eek:

Are you doing all this in-house? Our diocese has a parish development officer that advises PCC in how to find out this information, pass on experiences of other churches, and helps to give the correct words for disseminating the information to church family. We have a similar service from our patron.

We are in the middle of changing our mission statement and strapline. It’s amazing how a 25-strong PCC can have 25 different opinions about every single word.
 
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Paidiske

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There is no diocesan support for such things, so yes, we're doing it in-house. Fortunately my husband has a lot of experience in survey design, so he was able to help with that bit.

Really it's all part of me trying to convince parish council about the merits of an evening service, but they're so terrified that if we change things we might upset people, that we had to embark on this whole great big consultation process...
 
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PloverWing

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That's an evening service in addition to the services you're offering now? So, people who don't like an evening service could just come to the morning service(s) they've always gone to, and they're not losing anything they love?

That's some pretty powerful resistance to change there. :eek:

Hope you're feeling better soon, by the way.
 
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Paidiske

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Well, this is all part of the argument.

So at the moment, average Sunday attendance is sitting at about 35-40 people (nb. We are really not viable). We have two services, at 8am and 10am, which are substantially the same except 8am has no music.

It is my view, and the view of some others in the parish, that it would help us to grow if we had an evening service, perhaps in quite a different style, something which would draw people who don't find our current offering appealing.

But, it is also my view (less so that of others in the parish), that if we split our current attendance across three services, we might well end up with a situation where no service ever has more than a dozen or so people in attendance (at least, before we see any real growth). And that that is bad for the parish in all sorts of ways; you dilute the sense of community, lose a sense of critical mass, etc etc.

So what I would like to do is have one morning service - let's split the difference and say 9am, although I'm open to negotiation about the time - and one evening service at, let's say 7pm.

And this is why everyone is so angsty, because if we do anything that might change morning services, we might upset someone. What frustrates me about this is that if we do nothing to morning services we might be closing our doors inside ten years...

It's a bit of a no-win situation, I think, but that's being a vicar for you!
 
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Naomi4Christ

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There is no diocesan support for such things, so yes, we're doing it in-house. Fortunately my husband has a lot of experience in survey design, so he was able to help with that bit.

Really it's all part of me trying to convince parish council about the merits of an evening service, but they're so terrified that if we change things we might upset people, that we had to embark on this whole great big consultation process...
They don’t need to go if they don’t want to. Presumably one of the motives behind an evening service is to reach more people in your community.

What are they worried about?

An evening service is obviously more work for church officers, such as Wardens, and musicians, but they also give people a chance to step up and become more active in their service.
 
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Naomi4Christ

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Well, this is all part of the argument.

So at the moment, average Sunday attendance is sitting at about 35-40 people (nb. We are really not viable). We have two services, at 8am and 10am, which are substantially the same except 8am has no music.

It is my view, and the view of some others in the parish, that it would help us to grow if we had an evening service, perhaps in quite a different style, something which would draw people who don't find our current offering appealing.

But, it is also my view (less so that of others in the parish), that if we split our current attendance across three services, we might well end up with a situation where no service ever has more than a dozen or so people in attendance (at least, before we see any real growth). And that that is bad for the parish in all sorts of ways; you dilute the sense of community, lose a sense of critical mass, etc etc.

So what I would like to do is have one morning service - let's split the difference and say 9am, although I'm open to negotiation about the time - and one evening service at, let's say 7pm.

And this is why everyone is so angsty, because if we do anything that might change morning services, we might upset someone. What frustrates me about this is that if we do nothing to morning services we might be closing our doors inside ten years...

It's a bit of a no-win situation, I think, but that's being a vicar for you!

The really obvious thing is to have one morning service with those numbers.

Will anyone actually leave if you went down to one morning service?

IME, people get used to change within a few weeks.
 
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Paidiske

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An evening service need not be any extra work for anyone but me, honestly. I could do a simple Taize style evening prayer or Eucharist (or the like) without needing musicians. (I mean, great if you have them and they're willing, but if not it's not the end of the world).

Will anyone actually leave if we went to one morning service...? Well, that's the million dollar question. My guess is probably not, but my wardens/PC aren't willing to take the risk.
 
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Naomi4Christ

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An evening service need not be any extra work for anyone but me, honestly. I could do a simple Taize style evening prayer or Eucharist (or the like) without needing musicians. (I mean, great if you have them and they're willing, but if not it's not the end of the world).

Will anyone actually leave if we went to one morning service...? Well, that's the million dollar question. My guess is probably not, but my wardens/PC aren't willing to take the risk.

Can you get any data from similar churches that have already introduced an evening service?

Do you ever have joint morning services? We have them a few times a year, and people generally like them, as it is good to worship with the whole church family.

Have you thought of having a joint service once a month, or so (with a private view of making it permanent eventually).
 
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