Anyone up for a chat thread?

Paidiske · May 2, 2017

So you're in a Cathedral parish? I must admit, I miss cathedral evensong (I worked for the cathedral when I was a student). Very few parishes here do evensong at all.

Padres1969 · May 2, 2017

Paidiske said:
So you're in a Cathedral parish? I must admit, I miss cathedral evensong (I worked for the cathedral when I was a student). Very few parishes here do evensong at all.

Yep. I didn't have an Anglican parish anywhere near my house when I first started looking at Anglicanism again... so I figured since I was driving at least 10 miles to mass anyway no matter where I went I might as well go to the ecclesiastical center of the diocese (which wasn't much farther than the geographically closest parish anyway). Ended up being a good choice not just for the availability of Evensong every Sunday but also daily mass on the weekdays I feel the call to do so. Not that I blame parishes that don't have that luxury, we've got a bunch of priests, deacons and "retired" clergy to draw from for the services (never mind guest preachers the dean invites in regularly from other partner churches and of course the bishop when he drops by). That's a luxury most parishes don't enjoy.

Shane R · May 3, 2017

Padres1969 said:
Question, does anyone else's parish engage in any kind of special celebrations for St. George's Day/Feast of St. George? I'd never been to my own parish's St. George's Evensong until this Sunday and it was really quite stunning (despite my daughter having a rare meltdown mid service).

There is a local brewery named St. George's. They mostly make English styles. Tasty stuff, but the current brew-master is a bit of a know-it-all and he wears on me rapidly (because I know more than a little about brewing myself).

Shane R · May 3, 2017

So, in the American Ordinal (and the 1662) there is a line towards the end of the deacon service that refers to the deacon as an 'inferior order.' That really set off the Canon that I serve with and he made a point about it in his sermon last Sunday. My thoughts: it is an unfortunate choice of vocabulary.

Paidiske · May 3, 2017

I'll say! Priests who look down on deacons drive me nuts. Fortunately we have long since moved on from such wording. (All though in various pieces of canon law deacons aren't considered to be in "full orders" and I find that offensive too).

Arcangl86 · May 3, 2017

I think the bad wording is a reflection of the changing theology of the diaconate. In 1662 the deacon was still seen sort of as a mini-priest. It's only fairly recently have we started to recover it as a full and equal order, even though we aren't there yet.

gordonhooker · May 4, 2017

shanethetheologian said:
So, in the American Ordinal (and the 1662) there is a line towards the end of the deacon service that refers to the deacon as an 'inferior order.' That really set off the Canon that I serve with and he made a point about it in his sermon last Sunday. My thoughts: it is an unfortunate choice of vocabulary.

I don't have a problem with that language it is in concert with the Lord when he said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." If you have gone into holy orders for an ego trip you have gone into holy orders for the wrong reason.

As a Franciscan in the Third Order we strive to live a life of simplicity to get down off the horse the and kiss the leper is what we strive to do.

Paidiske · May 14, 2017

Mothers' day is not a liturgical occasion.

(Thank you, I just needed to get that out of my system somewhere, where the parish couldn't hear me!)

Arcangl86 · May 14, 2017

Paidiske said:
Mothers' day is not a liturgical occasion.

(Thank you, I just needed to get that out of my system somewhere, where the parish couldn't hear me!)

Preach! In all seriousness, if I do ever become a priest, that is a hill I am willing to die on.

gordonhooker · May 14, 2017

I do not see an issue in saying happy mothers day or happy fathers day at church on those Sundays or mention them in the context of readings for that day when preparing the sermon. As a matter of fact I got up during notices and on behalf of the Sanctuary team wished all the mothers and those who play a mothering role a very happy mothers day.

After all mothers, fathers, grand parents, and children are part of the Body of Christ.

seeking.IAM · May 14, 2017

Saying "Happy mother's day" is one thing, changing the Liturgy into a Mother love fest is something else, IMHO. My church as a few secular services I avoid altogether. One is for Veterans day (U.S.) when old Episcopalians try to wedge themselves into uniforms they wore decades ago and parade around the church with the flag and their military branch flags. And, this has what to do with Jesus? The other is a service where we give our church over to the local Mason's group to come to church with their little Apron's and Fez's and take over parts in the service of a church to which most are not members. Perhaps our new Rector will end this nonsense, although I fear trying might be his undoing. Deliver me from these things, I pray.

Paidiske · May 14, 2017

Yeah, I don't mind saying "Happy Mothers' Day." I mind all of the hymns being chosen for that theme rather than related to the readings, and various other mother-related activities in the service.

Not that I have a thing against mothers - I am one! - but that, like I said, it's not a liturgical occasion...

Padres1969 · May 15, 2017

Paidiske said:
Mothers' day is not a liturgical occasion.

(Thank you, I just needed to get that out of my system somewhere, where the parish couldn't hear me!)

Yeah I was pleased my parish didn't really do anything particular to highlight the Hallmark holiday yesterday. That said, it sure seemed like most of the congregation had decided to do so. Mass attendance does fluctuate, but this was definitely a "hang out with mom instead of God" kind of Sunday.

Arcangl86 · May 15, 2017

Padres1969 said:
Yeah I was pleased my parish didn't really do anything particular to highlight the Hallmark holiday yesterday. That said, it sure seemed like most of the congregation had decided to do so. Mass attendance does fluctuate, but this was definitely a "hang out with mom instead of God" kind of Sunday.

And that right there is probably why most churches do something to incorporate it into worship somehow.

Paidiske · May 15, 2017

It's interesting; I saw a slightly different effect. There were definitely people in church to please mum (or grandma) whom we very seldom see.

I wouldn't mind so much if the church had said, Right, we need to do a special mothers' day service, and kind of gone all out on it. I think, on reflection, what grated was this sort of neither-fish-nor-fowl approach where we had all sorts of mothers' day stuff, and non-mothers' day stuff, all kind of jumbled together. It felt poorly planned and incoherent.

gordonhooker · May 15, 2017

Paidiske said:
It's interesting; I saw a slightly different effect. There were definitely people in church to please mum (or grandma) whom we very seldom see.

I wouldn't mind so much if the church had said, Right, we need to do a special mothers' day service, and kind of gone all out on it. I think, on reflection, what grated was this sort of neither-fish-nor-fowl approach where we had all sorts of mothers' day stuff, and non-mothers' day stuff, all kind of jumbled together. It felt poorly planned and incoherent.

The parish I am with do just that but they do it on Mothering Sunday which is normally the 4th Sunday in Lent. The service on mothers day is as per the liturgical calendar and the mothers and those doing a mothering role are mentioned in the introduction, the sermon and notices.

Padres1969 · May 16, 2017

Arcangl86 said:
And that right there is probably why most churches do something to incorporate it into worship somehow.

Probably a fair assumption. Our dean is too traditional in that regard to modify a service to serve a Hallmark holiday however. She'll go all out for a saint's celebration, such as the St. George's Day I mentioned earlier, and the big holidays get the full nine yards (Holy Week being the pinnacle of that)... but not something like Mother's Day.

Naomi4Christ · May 28, 2017

Mothering Sunday is in our church calendar. It is the fourth Sunday in Lent, and there is definitely liturgy for it. It is nothing like the Hallmark version.

Mothering Sunday, iirc, originated when girls were in servitude, and it was one of the few days a year when they were able to go home. They would worship in their "mother church".

For us, Mothering Sunday is quite a significant "guest service". Families do get together on Mothering Sunday and come to church. We also make it a "parade service", which Scouts and Guides attend. And everyone gets a lovely bunch of daffodils, mother or not, with an extra bunch to give to neighbours.

SnowyMacie · Jun 4, 2017

Our rector and deacon both performed the liturgy today just wearing their regular clothes with their stoles, and I found myself upset. Then I realized that it was ultimately pointless to get upset that they weren't wearing an alb, and didn't even notice really for the rest of the service. It did cause me to realize that while tradition is valuable, it's not everything, and that perhaps I've been placing too much emphasis on traditions when it comes to worship. I definitely prefer the high church, but this was not something to be offended over.

Paidiske · Jun 4, 2017

I think, for me, while I recognise that (to some extent) what we wear is adiaphora, it's partly about respecting what has been helpful/important to a particular community. So even though I might not particularly like wearing a chasuble, when I go somewhere where that's the practice, I wear it, out of respect for what it means to the people there.

So what offends me isn't what people wear or don't wear, it's the lack of respect that can be conveyed by not taking into account the custom of a particular community.

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