Anyone up for a chat thread?

[Paidiske]

The Lord knows, no one else seems to!

 

[SnowyMacie]

The Lord knows, no one else seems to!

That old? Wow, I'm surprised it still turned on.

 

[Shane R]

We've got a few pockets of genuine Irish around here and they habitually refer to me as 'Vicar' whenever I am out in clericals. The Filipino community is prone to bow to me slightly. Interesting, how different cultures display a certain respect for those in holy orders.

Then there is the average American evangelical, who might just ask you if you have been saved and really have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ or if you are aware that the Bible says not to call any man 'Father' and if you permit it you are likely to be a succubus offspring of the great harlot of Babylon.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Then there is the average American evangelical, who might just ask you if you have been saved and really have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ or if you are aware that the Bible says not to call any man 'Father' and if you permit it you are likely to be a succubus offspring of the great harlot of Babylon.

Then there is the average Catholic who thinks converting to Anglicanism is an automatic stepping stone to Catholicism.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

How peculiar

 

[gordonhooker]

We've got a few pockets of genuine Irish around here and they habitually refer to me as 'Vicar' whenever I am out in clericals. The Filipino community is prone to bow to me slightly. Interesting, how different cultures display a certain respect for those in holy orders.

Then there is the average American evangelical, who might just ask you if you have been saved and really have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ or if you are aware that the Bible says not to call any man 'Father' and if you permit it you are likely to be a succubus offspring of the great harlot of Babylon.

Well there you GO!

 

[Shane R]

I was out this morning helping a local Anglican monk who runs a food bank. Well, his facility is just a couple of miles down the street from one of our larger area military installations, and having the credentials to get on base and use the facilities, I went to the commissary (a military supermarket). When I finished up there, I decided to stop at the base package store (which is housed in the gas station) because suitable wine for Holy Communion is $4-5 cheaper there than at non-military stores. I should mention I was in my clericals, which always prompts a conversation with someone on the base (today - a worker at the sandwich counter). I went up to pay for the wine and the clerk made his disapproval quite clear to me! You win some battles and lose others every day in ministry.

 

[Paidiske]

You win some battles and lose others every day in ministry.

Truth.

I'm preparing a funeral at the moment for a man who had married twice (divorced). Yesterday I spent time (separately) with each of his wives. The cognitive dissonance was dizzying; if I hadn't known better I'd never have believed they were talking about the same man!

 

[Shane R]

I was tasked with consulting with another church, outside of my own jurisdiction (an ACNA church). Without bogging this thread down with too much detail, I came away pondering the question of whether some of the new trends in church growth and worship and such promote a 'child-like' faith or a 'childish' faith - there is a difference.

 

[Paidiske]

There does seem to me to be a temptation to dumb things down, with the idea that this will somehow make it easier for people to come into the church. I'm not convinced; it might be easier, but is what they come to then also impoverished; a shadow of what it should be?

 

[seeking.IAM]

I came to The Episcopal Church as a refugee from a church chasing its tail trying to attract and keep members. Add a guitar and drum set, that will help. Put up a flat screen, project lyrics, and do multi-media during the sermon, that will help. Do more special music and less liturgy, that will help. The preacher will wear blue jeans and sneakers during worship and sport a sparkly earring, that will help. Well, none of it did. In short, church became a theatrical production, and not a very good one at that. Traditionalists like me left. And, apparently abandoning substance for glitz didn't work for the visitors and non-churched either as the church is now facing markedly decreased attendance, eliminating some weekly services, significant financial trouble, cutting staff, etc. God, help me if TEC goes that route.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

The church has the responsibility to proclaim the gospel afresh in each generation.

This means adapting to the prevailing culture. Culture has changed so much in the last 40 or 50 years. In those days, you went to church because that was what was expected of you. You wore your Sunday best, in case net curtains twitched. An awful lot of people went to church for appearances' sake. That's not the case now. People go to church because they want to go to church.

Modern people expect the church to be of high quality. They expect the same amount of multimedia that they get in the rest of their lives. They expect their learning styles (visual, auditory, kinaesthetic) to be addressed. Not everyone is an auditory learner.

Now a church service is just a small part of the overall church experience. There is what happens before you get involved in a service, and also what happens once you are comfortable in a service. The dipping the toe part in, perhaps a playgroup, or a retired men's luncheon - is the first step on a Christian journey for many, and we, as churches, need to get that experience right. Once someone is comfortable with church, then our challenge is deepening their faith - bible studies, prayer triads, mission work etc.

We have to move with the times and get personal with the people that Jesus commanded us to tell about him.

 

[Paidiske]

I don't disagree with anything you said, Naomi, except maybe the multimedia bit; I've found over the last ten years or so that even some of our young adults are moving away from that and want church to be different.

But what I was thinking about when I talked about dumbing down - and it's interesting, actually, because I had a couple of parishioners talking to me about this yesterday - is when church becomes about achieving a feel-good buzz through the music, multimedia, hype, etc; but when the buzz wears off there's not much substance to what's happening; not much growth in faith, or deepening discipleship, or the like. It's great when worship leaves us on an emotional high, but it's not what worship is for; and if that's all the church is trying to achieve, lots of other things get ignored.

If that makes sense?

 

[seeking.IAM]

The church has the responsibility to proclaim the gospel afresh in each generation.

This means adapting to the prevailing culture.

Consider the Eastern Orthodox, which I believe is the 2nd largest body of Christians on the planet...changing little since 1054 AD. They may become traditionalists' last hope.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Consider the Eastern Orthodox, which I believe is the 2nd largest body of Christians on the planet...changing little since 1054 AD. They may become traditionalists' last hope.

Very happy with the COfE, thanks

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I don't disagree with anything you said, Naomi, except maybe the multimedia bit; I've found over the last ten years or so that even some of our young adults are moving away from that and want church to be different.

But what I was thinking about when I talked about dumbing down - and it's interesting, actually, because I had a couple of parishioners talking to me about this yesterday - is when church becomes about achieving a feel-good buzz through the music, multimedia, hype, etc; but when the buzz wears off there's not much substance to what's happening; not much growth in faith, or deepening discipleship, or the like. It's great when worship leaves us on an emotional high, but it's not what worship is for; and if that's all the church is trying to achieve, lots of other things get ignored.

If that makes sense?

I don't automatically associate multimedia with hype.

I was thinking more along the lines of some images to illustrate a bible passage, or a simple PowerPoint to make the sermon easy to follow. Our sermons are 20 - 25 minutes long, and if the topic is complicated, then this can be really useful. We don't have shallow sermons.

 

[Shane R]

My mother in law died yesterday - of some form of cancer. I did not know her well but we did try to let her live with us for a while. That ended when she pushed my wife's buttons so hard that she tried to overdose on pills. She was estranged from one of her other daughters until about two weeks ago. That old lady had much to answer for, but I hope that she found mercy at the last. She was a troubled soul.

I remember taking her to church once, and she acted like we had tried to poison her after she took the wine. She had been an alcoholic for some years. There is a lesson in that somewhere.

 

[Paidiske]

It's difficult when someone dies with so much unresolved hurt in the family. Prayers for your wife's family, Shane.

 

[Shane R]

It's difficult when someone dies with so much unresolved hurt in the family. Prayers for your wife's family, Shane.

Thank you.

 

[Paidiske]

On a completely unrelated note, anyone here have much experience with Messy Church? I've come into a parish with a Messy Church service once a month, but it's new to me, and I'd be keen to hear other people's thoughts and experiences.