I have been reading the Message and I like it. It opens up the verses in just reading it in a fresh way. I have the Re-mix so you can follow along with other transaltions. Anyone reading it with similar impressions?
Peace,
Cos
Peace,
Cos
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Anyone reading "The Message"?
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I don't really enjoy reading paraphrases. I find myself constantly going back to the Greek and Hebrew texts to see if what the translator is saying is even close. Many times they are not. And many times they import a theological hermeneutic that runs contrary to the truth of the text.
Quite frankly, I don't trust them.
Quite frankly, I don't trust them.
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You can't be too worried about hermanuetics without shoes and holding a pillow. You have to read with your eyes open just a little.
The worst hermaneutic I found so far is in my NASB Hebrew/Greek Study Bible. I will let you know if I find any in the Message too. It is usually in the notes that someone puts in.
Get some zzzzzzzzz's.
Peace,
Cos
The worst hermaneutic I found so far is in my NASB Hebrew/Greek Study Bible. I will let you know if I find any in the Message too. It is usually in the notes that someone puts in.
Get some zzzzzzzzz's.
Peace,
Cos
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I don't trust The Message on it's own, but I like how our sermons will take a verse out of the NIV and then show it in the other translations, and The Message will be included in that. In that way, I think it's ok, but not as the main Bible translation.
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[FONT= "Book Antiqua"]
Also, remember that Eugene Peterson did NOT want it used for Bible study nor for any public reading. And it is not a translation in the normal sense of the word.
Can The Message be helpful in studying a specific text? Perhaps, although I have not found it all that useful. If I want a different way of looking at it (after translating from Hebrew/Greek, then looking NAS/NJKV/NIV), I would use one or more of the following:
New Evangelical Translation, predecessor of God's Word
God's Word
NET
NLT2
REB
TNK (OT by JPS)
I do not recommend TNIV because you can never tell whether the text is true plural or an interpretative plural introduced into the translation to make it "generic" avoiding masculine singular pronoun ("he/him"). I do have a TNIV, NRSV, and about 10-15 others that I will occasionally examine.
In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]
Also, remember that Eugene Peterson did NOT want it used for Bible study nor for any public reading. And it is not a translation in the normal sense of the word.
Can The Message be helpful in studying a specific text? Perhaps, although I have not found it all that useful. If I want a different way of looking at it (after translating from Hebrew/Greek, then looking NAS/NJKV/NIV), I would use one or more of the following:
New Evangelical Translation, predecessor of God's Word
God's Word
NET
NLT2
REB
TNK (OT by JPS)
I do not recommend TNIV because you can never tell whether the text is true plural or an interpretative plural introduced into the translation to make it "generic" avoiding masculine singular pronoun ("he/him"). I do have a TNIV, NRSV, and about 10-15 others that I will occasionally examine.
In Christ's love,
filo
[/font]
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I agree with you. Paraphrases are usually somebody's own translation of what they think the English version is saying. I have been sceptical about them for several years.
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C.F.W. Walther
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I like the Interpreters Bible for a very in depth look at the Gospels. I'm not to excited about paraphrases.
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I have a Message New Testament in the bag I take to work. I got it because it was light, and because I've looked and looked for a small Bible that I can read easily.
I often read a bit on the subway. While I don't really "trust" paraphrases or one-person translations for studying in-depth, I was surprised to find that I like the Message for overall reading.
That being said, while my copy of the New Testament has Psalms, I quickly learned to avoid them. The Message just doesn't work for me in the poetry and power of the Psalms.
But it's making Paul much more understandabl to me. And that's worth it.
I often read a bit on the subway. While I don't really "trust" paraphrases or one-person translations for studying in-depth, I was surprised to find that I like the Message for overall reading.
- It has no verse markings, so it flows more like a story, or letter, or history (depending on what part I'm reading). I'm not as distracted by the little numbers.
- I've always studied this part or that part of the Bible, or struggled to read a whole book. With The Message, I find I can read more than one chapter at at time, and I'm more likely to read several days in a row, so I actually see it as a joy and interest, and not just "because I should."
- Also, because of the ease of comprehension, The Message makes it easier for me to read a whole book, and get more of the overall understanding of it. I am finding that I'm getting a better "big picture" look at the different Gospels and letters than I've ever had before because of it.
- Then, when I go back to study the "bits and pieces" in more depth, I have a stronger framework to hang them on. I don't find myself as often puzzled because of what's being said where. Because I'm reading more wholistically (book at a time), when I study I can more clearly understand where the "piece" comes from in the "whole" theme of a book.
That being said, while my copy of the New Testament has Psalms, I quickly learned to avoid them. The Message just doesn't work for me in the poetry and power of the Psalms.
But it's making Paul much more understandabl to me. And that's worth it.
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Syng,
I agree that the Message works best in the narratives or story sections. I devoured Job in three days. You really need to get the Old as well. I think that Psalms in the Message format misclicks with lots of people. His introduction to it gives his take. He wanted Pslams that people would actually pray for all seasons of human experience. So these are "talking-points with God in common vernacular. Overplayed? Perhaps. But for anyone to take ten years to approach an entire translation, let alone the Pslams, is quite an overwhelming task.
"This stimulus to paraphrase the Pslams into a contemporary idiom comes from my lifetime of work as a pastor. As a pastor I was charged with, among other things, teaching people to pray, helping them to give voice to the entire experience of being human, and to do it both honestly and thoroughly. I found that it was not as easy as I expected....Faced with the prospect of conversation with a holy God who speaks worlds into being, it is not surprising that we have trouble." - EP
So when I read the Message, I take comfort that I am meeting the heart of a pastor, humble and gifted. What a rare combination that is. For those that want a compendium translation from a field of scholars who each contribute to the pie, there are plenty of those. And I think your "wholistic" approach is indeed an important contribution to our "bits and pieces" that we normally do.
The re-mix is a good approximation of the verse by verse so you can trace it with other translations. And there are a number of side by side translations. And it is not the artificial intrusion we are used to.
Peace,
Cos
I agree that the Message works best in the narratives or story sections. I devoured Job in three days. You really need to get the Old as well. I think that Psalms in the Message format misclicks with lots of people. His introduction to it gives his take. He wanted Pslams that people would actually pray for all seasons of human experience. So these are "talking-points with God in common vernacular. Overplayed? Perhaps. But for anyone to take ten years to approach an entire translation, let alone the Pslams, is quite an overwhelming task.
"This stimulus to paraphrase the Pslams into a contemporary idiom comes from my lifetime of work as a pastor. As a pastor I was charged with, among other things, teaching people to pray, helping them to give voice to the entire experience of being human, and to do it both honestly and thoroughly. I found that it was not as easy as I expected....Faced with the prospect of conversation with a holy God who speaks worlds into being, it is not surprising that we have trouble." - EP
So when I read the Message, I take comfort that I am meeting the heart of a pastor, humble and gifted. What a rare combination that is. For those that want a compendium translation from a field of scholars who each contribute to the pie, there are plenty of those. And I think your "wholistic" approach is indeed an important contribution to our "bits and pieces" that we normally do.
The re-mix is a good approximation of the verse by verse so you can trace it with other translations. And there are a number of side by side translations. And it is not the artificial intrusion we are used to.
Peace,
Cos
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Orion567
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I have a problem with The Message's approach to communicating the proper translation of the Bible which makes it sound authoritative and infallible. I have read many of the present and past translations of the Bible and I only use the KJV, ASV and NASB in my daily study. I am starting to like the ESV right now due to my Pastor introducing me to it. I do use the ESV in my devotional readings. To be truly honest, There are just many areas of which I question The Message to be a true contemporary english translation that is fit even for casual or devotional reading.
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I think Jesus said things a certain specific way, and to paraphrase it is blasphemy.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
the MSG translation completely ignores this aspect of textual accuracy
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
the MSG translation completely ignores this aspect of textual accuracy
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Tofferer
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So far I agree with those who do not like the message. I use the ESV, KJV, NIV, Wycliff, and Tynsdale bibles for my studies. Sometimes I will also use my KJV Greek-English interlinear or my amplified bible if I need to dig deeper.
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Tofferer
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Hopefully I will do that next year. This year Greek is offered on a thursday and that is the third busiest day of the week (don't ask about wednesday and friday, lets just say 6:00am-11:00pm aren't uncommon)That's why at sem we learn Greek and Hebrew.
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