Not at all. I fall short everyday of being morally flawless. You need to distinguish my view, from my conduct. My view says that statments like "being selfish and putting yourself first at the expense of others is wrong." are objectively true.
Okay, but how are they objectively true? You can claim it's objectively true, but you could be wrong. You stated that objective beliefs are true regardless of whether you believe it or not. Perhaps being selfish and putting yourself first is objectively morally true, and you've got it wrong. Use some objective method to show that you're right.
You are claiming that your particular moral beliefs are objectively true. You stated that the problem with subjectivism is that I could not tell group (z) that action (a) was immoral, and that your condemnation carries more power.
This more than implies that you are morally superior to me. It further implies that you have total knowledge of these objective morals, and therefore your morals are flawless.
But that does not mean I live that way. I could very well believe that, and still be a selfish, egotistical, self-centered person. Which oftentimes, God convicts me that I am. Just because someone adheres to a meta-ethical view that somethings are objectively wrong, does not necessarily mean that that person is going to conduct themselves according to that meta-ethic.
That's not the point.
Likewise, I have seen many people here who adhere to moral relativism that do not conduct themselves according to their meta-ethic. They bring charges against the God of the Bible as being immoral, but in order for their charge against God to be more than just the expression of their preference no different than their preference for vanilla ice cream over chocolate, they MUST suspend their relativistic view and adopt an objectivist view.
Right. Whereas if you were to say that vanilla ice cream is the best flavor ice cream, then vanilla ice cream must objectively be the best flavor of ice cream.
It would be ridiculous for a moral relativist to say: "You are wrong for not liking vanilla ice cream and should be punished." Or "You should not like vanilla ice cream." But since the relativist sees the above statements as being the same as saying "You should not rape women." i.e. they are only preferences of individuals, then when a moral relativist says God is immoral, it is the same as saying: "Chocolate ice cream is nasty." Who would fault someone for their preference in ice cream? The moral relativist cannot, nor can the moral objectivist. Who would fault someone for their preference in being immoral? The moral relativist cannot, BUT THE MORAL OBJECTIVIST CAN, because the objectivist says that somethings are immoral EVEN IF it is the opinion of the person that it is not.
Let's not use the word preference, let's use opinion, it is more accurate.
If I say "(x) is morally wrong." I am stating my opinion.
You claim that if you say "(x) is morally wrong." you are not stating an opinion but an objective moral fact, and thus your condemnation of (x) is more powerful than mine.
This implies that you have full knowledge of all objective morals on any given issue. Given that you have knowledge of objective morals, you would have to be morally flawless. Otherwise, on any given issue your stance may be wrong, which would make your condemnation of (x) no more powerful than mine.
This has nothing to do with your actions, but your claim that any moral position you take is necessarily objectively true. This makes you morally flawless, and morally superior to anyone else. Inevitably, this is your claim.
So with this in mind, I will remind you that my dying mother, and kosher questions are still sitting unanswered.
relativism and ethical subjectivism are not tenable as a meta-ethic for atheists. The number one charge against the God of the bible from atheists is the charge that evil exists and the God is immoral. But from a relativstic meta-ethic, these charges have absolutely no force of argumentation. Opinions never count as good means of argumentation. And that is what the charges must ultimately be seen as if the view is spoken from a relativistic view. When the atheist asks the Christian: "So, is God ordering genocide immoral?" He assumes the Christian must answer yes, and thus, demonstrate that God is immoral.
I think if God commands against murder in one instance, and condones genocide in another, he is immoral based on his own morals. I don't think we need objectivists to point that out.
But if being immoral is simply a preference the same way a person prefers chocolate to vanilla, then who would dare say that God was wrong for prefering to order the death of some wicked people?
Again not a preference, but an opinion. I would further say that someone who is of the opinion that ordering the death of people, even evil ones is immoral would claim that God is immoral. Why can they not hold that opinion?
The relativist IF HE IS TO REMAIN FAITFUL TO HIS RELATIVISM must say that it was God's preference that certain people be killed for their wickedness and that to say He was wrong would be the same as saying a person is wrong for prefering chocolate to vanilla.
Yes. However, that would not mean that I agree with his opinion just that it his opinion. I could also claim that I believe his opinion is wrong and immoral.
Apparently, if I were to claim objectivism, then I could simply say that I know his opinion is wrong, and immoral.
You just cannot make those statements regarding people's preferences. So when the atheist brings charges against God (and expects these charges to have weight in argumentation), he is speaking as if God has done something OBJECTIVELY wrong. But then, he is not a relativist, but an objectivist.
No we're saying that he's done something wrong from our point of view. Whether we are objectivists or not does not actually change what has happened. It doesn't change whether or not God's actions are right or wrong.
Now an atheist relativist can say , well it is just my preference that God not like (x) or (y). But that is all the relativist can say. And preference and opinion as I stated earlier is not successful argumentation.
But your argument is that because God prefers vanilla ice cream, you can objectively claim that vanilla ice cream is better. Which makes you wonder why you would ever eat chocolate ice cream.